Dick Allen Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Moncada and his current 5 fWAR pace is certainly one of the biggest problems and needs to be straightened out immediately. 1 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Moncada and his current 5 fWAR pace is certainly one of the biggest problems and needs to be straightened out immediately. There’s some bad takes here and in the Vaughn vs Yermin vs Sheets vs Burger thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: There’s some bad takes here and in the Vaughn vs Yermin vs Sheets vs Burger thread. It's the usual suspects or should I say suspect in the case of the first page of this thread every single time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I think people who are disappointed in Moncada are expecting his 2019 to be his floor and thats just unrealistic. We might never see the 2019 version again but hes still very productive. I don't think hes a 2 or 3 hitter right now however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) He has changed his approach at the plate every year as a White Sox player. 2018 he was being patient and then striking out a lot looking, so then in 2019 he started attacking early in the count with that sweet swing and mashed. 2020 was Covid and shortened (it's a miracle he even produced at all) and he started showing signs of a slower bat so he got patient again out of necessity. For 2021 in the 2 & 3 role he has looked to be patient and has honed his eye to actually walk in deep counts (the antithesis of his 2018) and it almost has forced him to be that guy who sees all the pitches for the 4 & 5 hitters. I can't remember him swinging at the first pitch more than maybe 10 times this year. So to me it's an approach based thing and I am pretty sure he will be a hybrid of 2019 and 2021 moving forward. And that is a heck of a good player getting on base in the 2 hole for the next several years as Eloy/Pito/Vaughn mash behind him, even if he is just an 800ish OPS player. Edited July 13, 2021 by EloyJenkins 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) Here are the details of his contract: 20:$1M, 21:$6M, 22:$13M, 23:$17M, 24:$24M, 25:$25M club option ($5M buyout) The $5 million buyout, it would cost the Sox to extricate themselves from that $25 million salary, in 2025, is problematic. If he isn't better than this current version of the player, would you even consider paying him $25 million, if it didn't cost you $5 million to avoid doing so? I would not. He is not currently a $25 million a year player. He is a very good athlete, with seemingly immense potential. However, he is not playing up to his promise and that perceived potential. He is not driving in a lot of runs, hitting homers, or stealing bases, which were all things that I think most expected him to do. It's one thing to acknowledge that he is a good player, but yet quite another to call him a super star, which many expected him to become. He is now at the age when he should be in the prime of his career. If this is his prime level of performance, that is a little disappointing. Edited July 13, 2021 by Lillian 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: Moncada and his current 5 fWAR pace is certainly one of the biggest problems and needs to be straightened out immediately. Honestly just DFA him today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Those who want to cavalierly dismiss any criticism of Moncada as ridiculous, seem to want to use hyperbole, which is unwarranted. Speaking for myself, I have never said that he is a terrible player, or that I wanted him DFA'd. It's simply a matter of honestly trying to assess whether, or not, he is as good as was expected and is worth the amount of money that he has earned and will earn, especially in the last 2 years of his current contract. After all, he was the centerpiece for Chris Sale. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 What's crazy is that Moncada's Line Drive percentage is actually up 8 full percentage points this year, (30.5% vs 22.5 LY, and 23.1% in 19) so he is making quality contact more often this year. This exit velocity is up this year over last year (90 vs 87.8), but decently down vs 19 (93.1). The mechanics are there for an explosive second half if he gets past the injuries nagging him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 The only thing he currently lacks is the power numbers. Fyi- he’s been battling a hand injury all year. In previous years he’s had elite exit velocity, that doesn’t disappear at his age. I wouldn’t dive too deep into it. The kid is a stud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XplodingScorbord Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: There's a guy on another board I post on that claims that the Sox got nothing for Sale. He believes Moncada sucks and Kopech will be a reliever. I will admit, I was really excited about both players entering 2020 and then Kopech opted out and Moncada got Covid. Even this version of Moncada is still a solid player but you do expect more than that when trading Sale. Moncada's current value is tied entirely to his walks so I wonder what his value would be if he wasn't walking so much. Even if Moncada kept doing what he’s doing in 2021, (a ~.400 OBP and SLG) I'm not sure you'd pick up his option year. Kopech still has the potential to start but I do wonder if he's ever getting out of the bullpen at this point. He just doesn't have enough innings. Meanwhile, on the Red Sox boards, they’re probably bitching that they gave up Moncada and Kopech for two decent years of Sale, and then nada since 2019. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, XplodingScorbord said: Meanwhile, on the Red Sox boards, they’re probably bitching that they gave up Moncada and Kopech for two decent years of Sale, and then nada since 2019. Sale will be back soon and if he's himself I'm sure they're fine with him and Devers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: He believes Moncada sucks and Kopech will be a reliever. Kopech, if allowed to start, would immediately be a top 15 SP in baseball (if not higher). As for Moncada, he really needs a good IL stint and we roll with Burger who is honestly better with the bat right now than Moncada. I personally feel Moncada is dealing with long covid and injuries. Maybe the all-star break was enough but we have Burger ready to mash the baseball so we should really utilize him and get Moncada healthy for the end of the season/playoff run 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Lillian said: Those who want to cavalierly dismiss any criticism of Moncada as ridiculous, seem to want to use hyperbole, which is unwarranted. Speaking for myself, I have never said that he is a terrible player, or that I wanted him DFA'd. It's simply a matter of honestly trying to assess whether, or not, he is as good as was expected and is worth the amount of money that he has earned and will earn, especially in the last 2 years of his current contract. After all, he was the centerpiece for Chris Sale. He's a 5 WAR player playing like this. Chris Sale is recovering from TJ surgery, and wouldn't have led the White Sox to 70 wins while he was here. He and Kopech are about as good of a return as anyone can realistically hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, black jack said: The only thing he currently lacks is the power numbers. Fyi- he’s been battling a hand injury all year. In previous years he’s had elite exit velocity, that doesn’t disappear at his age. I wouldn’t dive too deep into it. The kid is a stud. I'm concerned that it does disappear when you contract a disease that nobody knows much about the long-term ramifications. Freeman was the other guy that had it, and he's having a bad season this year. Edited July 13, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm concerned that it does disappear when you contract a disease that nobody knows much about the long-term ramifications. Freeman was the other guy that had it, and he's having a bad season this year. There were many more who had it. a sample of 2 is not really telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm concerned that it does disappear when you contract a disease that nobody knows much about the long-term ramifications. Freeman was the other guy that had it, and he's having a bad season this year. Except 2K5 just posted the numbers that show his exit velocity is right where it was in 2019. He has a hand injury and he’s a stud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Sale will be back soon and if he's himself I'm sure they're fine with him and Devers. Amazing for the dark cloud that hangs over every one of your posts, Sale coming back and being "himself" seems like a foregone conclusion even after..... 1. Not pitching since 2019 2. Turning 33 in a few months 3. Being fairly bad in 2019 🤡 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Amazing for the dark cloud that hangs over every one of your posts, Sale coming back and being "himself" seems like a foregone conclusion even after..... 1. Not pitching since 2019 2. Turning 33 in a few months seems 3. Being fairly bad in 2019 🤡 Also being well beyond the point that the trade is even relevant when considering Chirs Sale's production for the Red Sox. He's essentially a free agent pickup at this point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Tony said: Amazing for the dark cloud that hangs over every one of your posts, Sale coming back and being "himself" seems like a foregone conclusion even after..... 1. Not pitching since 2019 2. Turning 33 in a few months seems 3. Being fairly bad in 2019 🤡 He was bad in 2019 because he was injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, ptatc said: There were many more who had it. a sample of 2 is not really telling. Very true....I'm not sure of any other high profile players that had it though. Gleyber Torres maybe? Talk about a power outage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 39 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm concerned that it does disappear when you contract a disease that nobody knows much about the long-term ramifications. Freeman was the other guy that had it, and he's having a bad season this year. Are you saying all Star starter Freddie Freeman is having a bad year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, Tony said: Amazing for the dark cloud that hangs over every one of your posts, Sale coming back and being "himself" seems like a foregone conclusion even after..... 1. Not pitching since 2019 2. Turning 33 in a few months seems 3. Being fairly bad in 2019 🤡 But Moncada, he's dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: But Moncada, he's dead. Cross him off, then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He was bad in 2019 because he was injured? lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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