The MLB lockout is lifted!

[ptatc]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Given that all major pro sports leagues have unions, I agree. 

A revenue split should be part of the negotiation in MLB. It happens in all of the other leagues, why not here? 

While it is on the table, it won't happen until the union agrees to a hard cap like the other leagues have. That's when you need to show the books and show the revenue to find that split.

That is a bargaining chip the owners have to get the hard cap.

The revenue is almost there anyway. Someone stated earlier that the players get 47% of the revenue.  That's pretty good for about 20% of the workforce. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by ptatc

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It is when its only being used to suppress wages. 

Ideally, you'd like objectivity, but I don't think people would like objectivity if it meant everyone getting paid less except the absolute top producers. 

Do you think you're in the top 10% of your profession? If not, objective measures would likely be used to suppress your wages. 

I have no idea how you’re linking this to wage suppression.  What were the owners proposing to pay per win and how does that compare to the current arbitration system?

And as a top performer at my company I get paid less than the median for my pay grade, so yes I’d much rather prefer a compensation system that rewards actual performance than years of experience.

[Texsox]

47 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes, and it's wrong there too. 

The club shouldn't be lowballing a player like, say, Mookie Betts in arbitration, just because they can. There is no reason why arbitration should be a regularity rather than a rarity. Teams and players are allowed to agree to a one year contract without going to arbitration. 

My opinion is and always has been that if a business can't pay it's employees a living wage in regular society, or a fair wage based on profits in pro sports, then the business shouldn't be allowed to exist or the owner shouldn't be allowed to own the team. 

Sports franchises are not normal businesses and are a) public trusts and b) a hobby for the ultra wealthy. Unfortunately, the people that own sports franchises have convinced the public otherwise. 

 

Why isn't every business required to limit their profits and pay their employees a fair wage based on their profits. Walmart and Amazon are way more profitable than a baseball team. Those employees deserve higher wages based on the profits.

[Spicy gar]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And as a top performer at my company I get paid less than the median for my pay grade, so yes I’d much rather prefer a compensation system that rewards actual performance than years of experience.

Sounds kinda shitty. Do you get benefits that would bring you closer to the median? What are the reasons, as a top performer, you are being paid less? 

[bmags]

21 minutes ago, chw42 said:

http://moojerleaguebaseball.com

Damn this should be illegal I thought this was a real link

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why isn't every business required to limit their profits and pay their employees a fair wage based on their profits. Walmart and Amazon are way more profitable than a baseball team. Those employees deserve higher wages based on the profits.

That's a damn good question. I've never been in disagreement from you when you point out that stuff. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Two-Gun Pete]

20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Given that all major pro sports leagues have unions, I agree. 

A revenue split should be part of the negotiation in MLB. It happens in all of the other leagues, why not here? 

I think the other leagues share more revenue between teams than MLB does. Its one reason why shittsburgh can be competitive in the NFL & NHL, but they're useless turds in MLB.

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That's a damn good question. 

Moat Amazon and Walmart employees also can't hit the curveball, nor can they throw it 95+ MPH.

 

Jack, take a break from this. You're doing it again.

(Edit) And the rest of us should stop feeding Jack, and should give HIM a break, me included.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Harold's Leg Lift]

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Given that all major pro sports leagues have unions, I agree. 

A revenue split should be part of the negotiation in MLB. It happens in all of the other leagues, why not here? 

Anti-trust of course.  How can you share revenue when the owners don't have to opentheir books,  

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have no idea how you’re linking this to wage suppression.  What were the owners proposing to pay per win and how does that compare to the current arbitration system?

And as a top performer at my company I get paid less than the median for my pay grade, so yes I’d much rather prefer a compensation system that rewards actual performance than years of experience.

You're incredibly naive if you think that objective measures wouldn't be used to funnel wages toward the top 10% of employees. 

It's always about wage suppression. That's just business. (or so they say) 

There are no profits without wage suppression. 

I mean just look at what sabermetrics are doing to baseball. Making the game more unwatchable, and widening income inequality between players. 

Ask an Amazon employee what it's like to have to shit in paper bags and piss in a bottle, and then talk to me about "objective measures" 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It is when its only being used to suppress wages. 

Ideally, you'd like objectivity, but I don't think people would like objectivity if it meant everyone getting paid less except the absolute top producers. 

Do you think you're in the top 10% of your profession? If not, objective measures would likely be used to suppress your wages. 

I hate subjective bullshit as much(if not more) as anyone, but I can put up with it if it means getting paid fairly. 

The search for "economic efficiency" is hurting the world. 

See the difference is that if I thought my company wasn't treating me right, I could leave. Instead baseball tried to build a comparison system to try to equate players under this system. The whole point of quantitative analysis is also to try to get the underpaid and appreciated their fair share.  It isn't only owners doing this. You have someone like Scott Boras doing this as well.

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Moat Amazon and Walmart employees also can't hit the curveball, nor can they throw it 95+ MPH.

 

Jack, take a break from this. You're doing it again.

(Edit) And the rest of us should stop feeding Jack, and should give HIM a break, me included.

Which is a limited job skill that literally they can't sell to anyone else. It really is stupid of them to put so much effort into a job that they can only do for a few years and will likely cause then to work for next to no money for years then be stuck at minimum wage for greedy bastards that treat them like hell while earning millions for themselves. 

I hope future players learn from this and find other career paths. When teams can't find employees willing to accept those jobs wages will increase.

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

See the difference is that if I thought my company wasn't treating me right, I could leave. Instead baseball tried to build a comparison system to try to equate players under this system. The whole point of quantitative analysis is also to try to get the underpaid and appreciated their fair share.  It isn't only owners doing this. You have someone like Scott Boras doing this as well.

50 HRs is 50 HRs. What does it matter if it's coming from 1B or CF? 

If they had a way to even it out without taking position into account, I'd be more open to the idea. Position players shouldn't be paid less for the same offense just because of the position they play. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

50 HRs is 50 HRs. What does it matter if it's coming from 1B or CF? 

If they had a way to even it out without taking position into account, I'd be more open to the idea. Position players shouldn't be paid less for the same offense just because of the position they play. 

Because it is way harder to play CF defense well than 1b defense. I am a great salesperson and do all of the books for this company, should I be worth more than a person who can do only one of those skills?

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, Spicy gar said:

Sounds kinda shitty. Do you get benefits that would bring you closer to the median? What are the reasons, as a top performer, you are being paid less? 

New to the pay grade and salary increases are capped when promoted, so you usually start below the median unless you come from the outside.  They do give merit increases at higher rates if you’re below the median salary, but that really has nothing to do with actual performance but rather experience.  Ultimately at my company high performance is rewarded with faster promotion opportunities and the occasional spot bonus.  But it never feels good when you know you’re outperforming a specific peer but realize he’s making more than you.

[Spicy gar]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

50 HRs is 50 HRs. What does it matter if it's coming from 1B or CF? 

If they had a way to even it out without taking position into account, I'd be more open to the idea. Position players shouldn't be paid less for the same offense just because of the position they play. 

2 of the biggest contracts in mlb history were for first baseman. Is that the most important position or were they just that good offensively?

[Spicy gar]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

New to the pay grade and salary increases are capped when promoted, so you usually start below the median unless you come from the outside.  They do give merit increases at higher rates if you’re below the median salary, but that really has nothing to do with actual performance but rather experience.  Ultimately at my company high performance is rewarded with faster promotion opportunities and the occasional spot bonus.  But it never feels good when you know you’re outperforming a specific peer but realize he’s making more than you.

Yeah that sucks. Any chance you see the quick promotions as a stepping stone to a bigger job somewhere else?

[Quin]

I am so fucking confused with the turn this thread took.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

I am so fucking confused with the turn this thread took.

Goes where it always does when Jack gets rolling.  People that own companies or have money are evil and they should give their money to others who don't have as much money.

[Tnetennba]

 

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're incredibly naive if you think that objective measures wouldn't be used to funnel wages toward the top 10% of employees. 

It's always about wage suppression. That's just business. (or so they say) 

There are no profits without wage suppression. 

I mean just look at what sabermetrics are doing to baseball. Making the game more unwatchable, and widening income inequality between players. 

Ask an Amazon employee what it's like to have to shit in paper bags and piss in a bottle, and then talk to me about "objective measures" 

We have a performance management system and the top performers receive no direct benefit in terms salary or bonus over their peers who simply meet expectations.  As such, people with similar jobs / responsibility receive similar financial benefits regardless of performance and are more or less paid at a market-based rate.  Do people make more as they move up the corporate ladder and take on more responsibility?   Of course they do, but that’s how any org structure is going to work.

I’m really struggling to understand your point here.  Should lower level Walmart & Amazon employees receive a wage that allows for a reasonable standard of living?  Of course they should, but what the fuck does that have to do with major league baseball players earning $600k or more at minimum?  You’re so anti-ownership that you’ve somehow convinced yourself that being paid for performance is a bad thing.  Should Dylan Cease get paid less than Reynaldo Lopez?  How is that a good thing?

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, Spicy gar said:

Yeah that sucks. Any chance you see the quick promotions as a stepping stone to a bigger job somewhere else?

I’m honestly content with my pay even if I don’t think it’s 100% equitable, so while I’m not looking elsewhere at the moment the opportunities I’ve received due to promotions do provide flexibility.  From my perspective, being paid a little bit less than what’s fair is fine if there is a long-term benefit to the experience being gained.

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

50 HRs is 50 HRs. What does it matter if it's coming from 1B or CF? 

If they had a way to even it out without taking position into account, I'd be more open to the idea. Position players shouldn't be paid less for the same offense just because of the position they play. 

Are you actually against the principals of WAR?

[Spicy gar]

48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m honestly content with my pay even if I don’t think it’s 100% equitable, so while I’m not looking elsewhere at the moment the opportunities I’ve received due to promotions do provide flexibility.  From my perspective, being paid a little bit less than what’s fair is fine if there is a long-term benefit to the experience being gained.

Hey thumbs up to that. Hope i didn't come off as a dick. If i did i apologize.

[Spicy gar]

57 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Goes where it always does when Jack gets rolling.  People that own companies or have money are evil and they should give their money to others who don't have as much money.

They should pay their employees fairly. People who own mega companies should pay a shit ton more in taxes. They aren't "giving" their money to anyone. They are paying back what they owe to the rest of us. We make their business run. If workers had any kind of reliable assistance everyone would be making more money.