Quin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, HOFHurt35 said: I always love his overuse of the unnecessary ! Everytime NSC uses an exclamation point, I imagine him pointing his index finger upward and yelling in an infomercial-esque tone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Cishek. Take it as you will of course. Assuming this is true (which is what I thought was going on before Cishek posted it), take a tiny return if it means we can go get Conforto. But if we are done making other moves anyway, then take the better return and eat some cash. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Cishek. Take it as you will of course. "some offers take MOST of the cash"... meaning we can't dump it all + get something... ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 hours ago, Balta1701 said: They are $17 million from the tax line (likely a little less when IL stints happen). Balta, since I know you love this CBT stuff, question for you. Sportrac has the Sox CBT payroll at $192.6M including a 27-man roster. How do you get from $37.4M in space to $17M in space? I know that CBT thresholds used to include player benefits, do we even know for that they still do in the CBA? Do player benefits really cost upwards of $20M (10% of payroll)? I know you also build in some room for guys who get called up for IL stints, etc., but $20M seems like a steep cushion for those costs. Just curious how you're coming up with those numbers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 The buzz around Conforto has been so quiet that I’m convincing myself he’s waiting for the Sox to move Kimbrel lol. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: "some offers take MOST of the cash"... meaning we can't dump it all + get something... ouch! Even if you have to eat $3M or something, could still end up being a better decision than letting him walk out the door for nothing depending on the return. Shit, i'd eat half the deal if the right guy comes back. Just depends. Now if Sox eat a nice chunk and just get filler back, obviously picking up option looks foolish. There is still hope tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said: How far away are Colas and Cespedes, realistically? Cespedes needs a lot of improvement to show he is more than a 4th OF type. He has it in him but didn't show it on the field last season. I'd imagine he starts at AA and progresses based on improvement. Maybe a late season callup if he is doing great, realistically 2023 is his timeline if he can show improvements though Colas imo is far superior to Cespedes but its gonna depend on how he looks after being out of baseball for 2-3 years bc of international and covid things. Barring a signing and if he meets the hype im laying on him id say early 2023 he is the starting RF for the Sox. The hype is real, but the rust is real as well, its a matter of which is more dominant at this point lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Assuming this is true (which is what I thought was going on before Cishek posted it), take a tiny return if it means we can go get Conforto. But if we are done making other moves anyway, then take the better return and eat some cash. I don't trust this Front Office to re-invest. I say screw it, keep Kimbrel and hope the "SuperBullpen" works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said: I don't trust this Front Office to re-invest. I say screw it, keep Kimbrel and hope the "SuperBullpen" works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Capn12 said: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Balta, since I know you love this CBT stuff, question for you. Sportrac has the Sox CBT payroll at $192.6M including a 27-man roster. How do you get from $37.4M in space to $17M in space? I know that CBT thresholds used to include player benefits, do we even know for that they still do in the CBA? Do player benefits really cost upwards of $20M (10% of payroll)? I know you also build in some room for guys who get called up for IL stints, etc., but $20M seems like a steep cushion for those costs. Just curious how you're coming up with those numbers. Luxury tax payroll is based on average contract price, not on single year contract price. For example a contract that goes 2/4/6/8/ million gets a luxury tax of 5 million per season, and not the hit of the individual payroll numbers. With the Sox extentions weighting heavy at the end, we are still in the portion where the cap hit is bigger than the annual costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Even if you have to eat $3M or something, could still end up being a better decision than letting him walk out the door for nothing depending on the return. Shit, i'd eat half the deal if the right guy comes back. Just depends. Now if Sox eat a nice chunk and just get filler back, obviously picking up option looks foolish. There is still hope tho. I'd definetly eat cash to get something useful. I just figured this read as we have to eat most of it, just to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: I don't trust this Front Office to re-invest. I say screw it, keep Kimbrel and hope the "SuperBullpen" works out. I would also keep him, IF both apply: 1. His money freed up doesn't allow us to sign anyone anyways. 2. We get nothing back in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Even if you have to eat $3M or something, could still end up being a better decision than letting him walk out the door for nothing depending on the return. Shit, i'd eat half the deal if the right guy comes back. Just depends. Now if Sox eat a nice chunk and just get filler back, obviously picking up option looks foolish. There is still hope tho. I was thinking this exact same thing, and then it sent me down a rabbit hole of wondering how much teams would pay for other teams' prospects. If we eat some of the Kimbrel cash and then get a prospect in return, we essentially would just be "buying" that prospect (because we could have just declined the Kimbrel option to begin with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: I was thinking this exact same thing, and then it sent me down a rabbit hole of wondering how much teams would pay for other teams' prospects. If we eat some of the Kimbrel cash and then get a prospect in return, we essentially would just be "buying" that prospect (because we could have just declined the Kimbrel option to begin with). I'd loooove to buy a prospect/young player and eat much of Kimbrels contract (lux?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Luxury tax payroll is based on average contract price, not on single year contract price. For example a contract that goes 2/4/6/8/ million gets a luxury tax of 5 million per season, and not the hit of the individual payroll numbers. With the Sox extentions weighting heavy at the end, we are still in the portion where the cap hit is bigger than the annual costs. I understand that. Per sportrac, the $192.6M payroll quoted is the CBT payroll, not actual payroll. Trying to understand what makes up this $20M in added costs Balta is tacking onto the $192.6M when saying we only have $17M of space. Seems steep - just trying to understand what makes up that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said: The buzz around Conforto has been so quiet that I’m convincing myself he’s waiting for the Sox to move Kimbrel lol. The Conforto fit on the White Sox is so obvious (and something that's been noted by multiple national reporters), that Boras would be stupid to not try to bring them in on the bidding or give them the time to move Kimbrel if he believes they need to do that first before making an offer. If (and it's a big if) Hahn's first call after the lockout was to Boras, it would make sense that Hahn would tell him they were interested in making an offer for Conforto, but would want to wait until after the Kimbrel trade to see how much room they have in the budget. Edited March 17, 2022 by Perfect Vision 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said: The buzz around Conforto has been so quiet that I’m convincing myself he’s waiting for the Sox to move Kimbrel lol. There have been almost no rumors around Conforto or Castellanos. They're going to have to sign somewhere soon. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the Sox are waiting to free up the Kimbrel money to go get Conforto. Wishful thinking, I know, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Balta, since I know you love this CBT stuff, question for you. Sportrac has the Sox CBT payroll at $192.6M including a 27-man roster. How do you get from $37.4M in space to $17M in space? I know that CBT thresholds used to include player benefits, do we even know for that they still do in the CBA? Do player benefits really cost upwards of $20M (10% of payroll)? I know you also build in some room for guys who get called up for IL stints, etc., but $20M seems like a steep cushion for those costs. Just curious how you're coming up with those numbers. First of all - MLB rules require you to include "Health benefits/insurance" as part of the CBT costs. Spotrac lumps that in as a $16 million charge per team. It's probably a little more or less than that, but it is counted. Second, MLB rules require that any time a contract isn't split among each year evenly, for the CBT calculation you must do an average. If a guy's contract goes: $2/$4/$6/$8/$10 over 5 years - that's $30 million over 5 years, so even if he's only in the first year and being paid $2 million, his CBT number is $6 million. They do this so you can't front-load or backload a contract to sneak around the CBT rules. Third, buyouts count. Harrison's salary is $4 million this year, but there's a $1.5 million buyout. If you're budgeting for the CBT, Harrison's number is $5.5 million. I don't think that they get this back if they pick up his option. Finally, Rick Hahn in his genius played a game with Liam Hendriks. He can convert the final year into deferred money, and make it a 3 year deal. That means that Liam Hendriks's contract is 3 guaranteed years, $54 million guaranteed. Hendriks's contract this year is $13.3 million, but his luxury tax is calculated based on $18 million yearly average, so his CBT cost is $4.67 million higher than his salary. You may look at Rick Hahn's creative contracts for this one as it gave away $4.67 million in tax space in order to make that happen, but after all the White Sox won't care about the tax number right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, hogan873 said: There have been almost no rumors around Conforto or Castellanos. They're going to have to sign somewhere soon. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the Sox are waiting to free up the Kimbrel money to go get Conforto. Wishful thinking, I know, but... Why does freeing up the money first matter though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: First of all - MLB rules require you to include "Health benefits/insurance" as part of the CBT costs. Spotrac lumps that in as a $16 million charge per team. It's probably a little more or less than that, but it is counted. Second, MLB rules require that any time a contract isn't split among each year evenly, for the CBT calculation you must do an average. If a guy's contract goes: $2/$4/$6/$8/$10 over 5 years - that's $30 million over 5 years, so even if he's only in the first year and being paid $2 million, his CBT number is $6 million. They do this so you can't front-load or backload a contract to sneak around the CBT rules. Third, buyouts count. Harrison's salary is $4 million this year, but there's a $1.5 million buyout. If you're budgeting for the CBT, Harrison's number is $5.5 million. I don't think that they get this back if they pick up his option. Finally, Rick Hahn in his genius played a game with Liam Hendriks. He can convert the final year into deferred money, and make it a 3 year deal. That means that Liam Hendriks's contract is 3 guaranteed years, $54 million guaranteed. Hendriks's contract this year is $13.3 million, but his luxury tax is calculated based on $18 million yearly average, so his CBT cost is $4.5 million higher than his salary. You may look at Rick Hahn's creative contracts for this one as it gave away $4.67 million in tax space in order to make that happen, but after all the White Sox won't care about the tax number right? Got it. Thanks. So basically you're at $192.6M CBT payroll + $16M benefits + $4M min guys for IL stints = $212.6M - $230M= $17.4M. Makes sense - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Why does freeing up the money first matter though? Right, even if Conforto puts you over the tax by like $5M with Kimbrel still on roster, what is he first tax rate? 25%? Its kind of chump change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Got it. Thanks. So basically you're at $192.6M CBT payroll + $16M benefits + $4M min guys for IL stints = $212.6M - $230M= $17.4M. Makes sense - thanks! Actually the $4 million is more like "playing the game with Hendriks". The IL stints are currently budgeted for less than that/included in the "40 man roster" lines, for now. It could be a little bit higher, but if you use the $192 payroll for the 40 man roster, the next $4 million is basically "Hendriks's screwy contract". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Why does freeing up the money first matter though? White Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 40 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: If Colas and/or Cespedes become average everyday regulars in the bigs, that is a huge win. They should be counted on for absolutely nothing. Neither of these guys are even top 100 prospects. I feel like this should be pinned to every thread. Having too many awesome players is a good problem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts