Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Imagine being outspent this off season by the cross town team who supposedly wasn't trying to win Why would the Cubs waste their money.. They're in a horrendoes spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: What about the Lynn trade? Are you happy we made that trade? Blind Squirrel, meet nut. That aside, tying any future trade talks to the results of the Lynn trade is a canard. Lynn is and was a better player than Bassitt could ever hope to be, and we don't have a surplus tradeable prospect that's anywhere near what Dunning was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Unfortunately the White Sox right now must have a “win now” attitude. While I agree they have shown no skill at making trades with that attitude, they probably have no choice. If the White Sox gave up Semien, Bassit, and Phegley for Samarzija when they had a legitimate 92 win team, and that pushed them into the playoffs, it would still sting to have overpaid that badly, but at least a playoff run could justify it. That’s where they are now - it is less important to avoid overpaying than it it to get guys who actually produce. In 2 or 3 years they’re going to be trying to plug holes on a sinking ship no matter what they do now, so they better get themselves into the World Series before that. This is how I feel. I am fine "losing the trade" if it makes us better this year. Obviously, there's different degrees of losing a trade, so you can't be stupid, but I think another starting pitcher that will pitch one of the first three games of a playoff series is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Blind Squirrel, meet nut. That aside, tying any future trade talks to the results of the Lynn trade is a canard. Lynn is and was a better player than Bassitt could ever hope to be, and we don't have a surplus tradeable prospect that's anywhere near what Dunning was. I would say tying any future trade talks to Samrdzija is more "canard" than Lynn. Since Lynn happened 1 year ago and Samardzija 8. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: This is how I feel. I am fine "losing the trade" if it makes us better this year. Obviously, there's different degrees of losing a trade, so you can't be stupid, but I think another starting pitcher that will pitch one of the first three games of a playoff series is a must. Rodon...we match any offer he gets would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: This is how I feel. I am fine "losing the trade" if it makes us better this year. Obviously, there's different degrees of losing a trade, so you can't be stupid, but I think another starting pitcher that will pitch one of the first three games of a playoff series is a must. If they’re willing to spend the money, that extra $20 million in space under the tax helps take some of the sting out of losing a young guy also. That was probably the biggest issue with the Lynn/Dunning trade - worked out great but if the tax line hadn’t gone up, the White Sox were in a real jam this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, poppysox said: Rodon...we match any offer he gets would be my guess. That ship has sailed IMO. Not sure any of us would want him on the contract he’s going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Unfortunately the White Sox right now must have a “win now” attitude. While I agree they have shown no skill at making trades with that attitude, they probably have no choice. If the White Sox gave up Semien, Bassit, and Phegley for Samarzija when they had a legitimate 92 win team, and that pushed them into the playoffs, it would still sting to have overpaid that badly, but at least a playoff run could justify it. That’s where they are now - it is less important to avoid overpaying than it it to get guys who actually produce. In 2 or 3 years they’re going to be trying to plug holes on a sinking ship no matter what they do now, so they better get themselves into the World Series before that. There are a few issues at play here: 1. They haven't shown the ability to self-scout, and determine what they actually need. While Atlanta had the 12th-most fWAR out of their BP, the SOX had the 5th-most fWAR out of the pen. Atlanta had just as many injuries in their OF as the SOX. Atlanta got their everyday lineup fixed, and left their (inferior) BP alone. Who won the WS last year? 2. They don't know how to determine value. Trading for Samardzija then, or Kimbrel now revealed that weakness. 3. (And this is most important, IMO) I disagree with you that they "have to" trade for a SP. Bassitt projects to be worth ~2.5 fWAR. In other words, an average SP, NOT a star. But in order to pay him, you have to risk KW/RH negotiating with Oakland. Kikuchi projects to ~2.0 fWAR and costs only cash. Rodon projects to ~3.0 fWAR, and only costs cash. Just use cash. Edited March 11, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I would say tying any future trade talks to Samrdzija is more "canard" than Lynn. Since Lynn happened 1 year ago and Samardzija 8. Disagreed. Both the Samardzija trade then, and any trade now would be KW/RH dealing from a weakened MiLB system. Lynn was them trading from a surplus. But, using recency bias, the Kimbrel trade shows that they STILL don't know what they need or what it should cost. So, don't trade. Use cash. Save any trade assets for the TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said: By “outta here”, do you mean off the message boards or off to Nashville? 😜 Lol…I didn’t get that far with my keyboard warrior threat! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Disagreed. Both the Samardzija trade then, and any trade now would be KW/RH dealing from a weakened MiLB system. Lynn was them trading from a surplus. But, using recency bias, the Kimbrel trade shows that they STILL don't know what they need or what it should cost. So, don't trade. Use cash. Save any trade assets for the TDL. You don't think Sheets/Burger is surplus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Not a big fan of "we lost a trade a decade ago, so we should be cowards during our actual window" as a team philosophy. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Two-Gun Pete said: There are a few issues at play here: 1. They haven't shown the ability to self-scout, and determine what they actually need. While Atlanta had the 12th-most fWAR out of their BP, but just as many injuries in their OF, Atlanta got their everyday lineup fixed, and left their (inferior) BP alone. Who won the WS last year? 2. They don't know how to determine value. Trading for Samardzija then, or Kimbrel now revealed that weakness. 3. (And this is most important, IMO) I disagree with you that they "have to" trade for a SP. Bassitt projects to be worth ~2.5 fWAR. In other words, and average SP, NOT a star. But in order to pay him, you have to risk KW/RH negotiating with Oakland. Kikuchi projects to ~2.0 fWAR and costs only cash. Rodon projects to ~3.0 fWAR, and only costs cash. Just use cash. Fine. I get that. But there’s also a big downside to signing that pitcher and going into next season with Sheets/Vaughn as the RF/DH pair as a consequence. They have basically $30 million to spend if they want to leave a few crumbs for the deadline - you just spent $20 million on Rodon. They still need a backup catcher, someone to make sure Leury isn’t the starting 2b, and help in the outfield. Theres 3 ways to do this. Sign guys who are all beaten up and make no trades, so you’re getting say a Pederson, Corey Kluber, Roughned Odor level set of additions. Or, you could sign Rodon, and go true scrap heap for the other slots like Jose Iglesias and Jake Marisnick. Or, you sign a guy for $20 million and you make trades to fill in the other slots - on paper, that gives the best lineup easily, but you have Rick Hahn doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, poppysox said: Rodon...we match any offer he gets would be my guess. If you take everything else out of the equation (cost, trading prospects, etc.), I would rather have Bassitt on the team than Rodon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: You don't think Sheets/Burger is surplus? You seriously think that Oakland, out of kindness in their hearts, would (snicker) NOT try to rob KW/RH again? Seriously? Because they'll talk KW/RH into believing that Bassitt is a golden God, when he's actually just projected to be 2.5 or so fWAR. Just use cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 46 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: 1. You forgot to add into the Samardzija tragedy that KW/RH looked at a 73 win team from the previous season and said, "Durrr, all this team needs in Jeff Samardzija, and we're on our way!" I think I got banned from WSI for a month. Holy shit, that was so fucking moronic. I would have fired every fucking body in the front office for that stupid shit. 2. I think someone finally found a Bassitt trade that I'd do. Throw in Micker Adolfo into that mix. The also added Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche, David Robertson, & Zach Duke and were crowned the champions of the offseason by many. Those moves were underwhelming in hindsight, but acting like all they did was add Shark is completely disingenuous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Why would the Cubs waste their money.. They're in a horrendoes spot Why are they in a horrendous spot? I think this moves them to compete for a playoff spot for sure even a division title. The reds will reduce and not be in play its just the brewers and cardinals over the there. Then the cubs can trade guys like Horner and some of their younger prospects for pitching. My issue is more the whitesox have a budget in mind and it doesn't matter if the threshold has moved up the budget for the sox is probably the same. I am hoping I am wrong but the sox just dont play big market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Poor Steve. He might not get to keep all the money h stole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: You seriously think that Oakland, out of kindness in their hearts, would (snicker) NOT try to rob KW/RH again? Seriously? Because they'll talk KW/RH into believing that Bassitt is a golden God, when he's actually just projected to be 2.5 or so fWAR. Just use cash. The projections are fine to look at, but what do you actually believe will happen? Do you think Rodon or Bassitt will have a higher WAR next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, fathom said: That ship has sailed IMO. Not sure any of us would want him on the contract he’s going to get. I think RH did him a solid by having him test the water without being encumbered with a QO. We know his actual health situation better than anyone and if it's as good as reported...why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Why were people complaining about a Sheets for Bassit... Sheets is a sell high, AAAA rodder.. Sheets wouldn't even be enough for Bassitt I personally don’t like it for these reasons. 1) Gavin’s bat fits a ton of team needs. Even if you assume the Sox sign Conforto, you’re still relying on everyone staying healthy including Eloy, Engel and Conforto who have all struggled to stay healthy. I personally would send Gavin to AAA to start the year, but I full well know he’s going to be needed plenty. I don’t think he’s much more than a solid platoon bat, but we badly need more left handed hitting and power. We don’t have much upper level depth after Gavin. Next best option would be K machine Adolfo and he won’t even be in the org in 4 weeks cause he’s out of options. 2) I’m not against trading Sheets or adding SP, but I just don’t think Bassitt moves the needle much. So maybe we win the division by 10 games instead of 7 games. Sox are strong division favorites and Bassitt isn’t even a slam dunk to make our playoff rotation depending on how exactly Sox manage Kopech throughout the year. Perhaps the new playoff rules changes the calculus on this a bit as those extra couple games could mean a bye instead of a 3 game series. 3) despite all Sox fans, myself including, wanting to send Keuchel to the moon, it’s just not happening. Adding Bassitt quote literally gives you no option but to stick him in a role he’s never done and isn’t suited for. I fully expect Sox to try to milk 20 or so starts out of Keuchel before dumping him, and everyone else should too. I won’t be irate or anything if Sox flip Sheets for Bassitt. I will be happy to have him. I also won’t be irate if Sox fire the Sheets bullet in another deal. But I just personally wouldn’t do that deal for those reasons. Edited March 11, 2022 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, poppysox said: I think RH did him a solid by having him test the water without being encumbered with a QO. We know his actual health situation better than anyone and if it's as good as reported...why not? Maybe the Sox don’t think the reports line up with how he mentally handles discomfort? This is a guy who said he was healthy the last few months of the season, yet his velocity disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Why would the Cubs waste their money.. They're in a horrendoes spot Honestly, who cares, let them. Correa going to a terrible team on most likely an overpay kills two birds IMO. Out of the AL and not going to a contender is just fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Fine. I get that. But there’s also a big downside to signing that pitcher and going into next season with Sheets/Vaughn as the RF/DH pair as a consequence. They have basically $30 million to spend if they want to leave a few crumbs for the deadline - you just spent $20 million on Rodon. They still need a backup catcher, someone to make sure Leury isn’t the starting 2b, and help in the outfield. Theres 3 ways to do this. Sign guys who are all beaten up and make no trades, so you’re getting say a Pederson, Corey Kluber, Roughned Odor level set of additions. Or, you could sign Rodon, and go true scrap heap for the other slots like Jose Iglesias and Jake Marisnick. Or, you sign a guy for $20 million and you make trades to fill in the other slots - on paper, that gives the best lineup easily, but you have Rick Hahn doing it. We had ~$15MM in CBT space before the increase. We now have, what, $35MM in space? Let's say we have to eat $10MM of the Kimbrel turd to have him fuck off. That leaves us with ~$41MM or so under the CBT. We could do any one of the following to improve the roster: Kikuchi $10MM, Suzuki $11MM, Tepera $5MM, and what, Miller or Villar $2MM = $28MM? Or: Conforto $20MM, Kikuchi $10MM, Tepera $5MM, Miller/Villar $2MM= $37MM. Or: Rodon $19MM, Suzuki $11MM, Tepera $5MM, Miller/Villar $2MM = $37MM. It can (and should, IMO) be done with just cash. Just use cash. Edited March 11, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: If you take everything else out of the equation (cost, trading prospects, etc.), I would rather have Bassitt on the team than Rodon. The cost of trading prospects is part of the equation. All things being equal...FA's are the way to go IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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