zisk Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: There it is. The aging veteran one year deal who is likely to be released at some point. Oh wait, maybe I should see what they do with RF before announcing that haha Sox always buy high and sell low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, poppysox said: We need to see the offseason in its entirety to judge this deal. Building up the BP while adding a quality SP seems like a reasonable area of improvement. Vaughn is a decision that none of us know how the FO wants to proceed. If we keep him he needs to play. He is probably our biggest trade chip if we go that route. Kimbrel is an unanswered work in progress. RH clearly thinks his market worth is superior to how this forum values his talent. The next few days should answer most of these questions. I'll wait to judge the end result. Not really. They had Madrigal, a minimum guy doing a good job. Replaced him with a more expensive , less productive guy. Then replaced him with an even more expensive even less productive guy. I had no issue with the Sox acquiring Kimbrel. I did have a problem with them giving up Madrigal , and I mentioned it right away. It was going to cost you a lot more to get what he brought. It’s costing them a lot more for lesser players. I am assuming the Kelly signing means they have found a Kimbrel taker, but I would never have thought Harrison was their 2B solution, so that assumption may be wrong too. Except for2005, the only year the White Sox ever won a playoff series in 99.99% of the living populations lifetime, these type of signings have mostly blown up in their face. And it seems likely it will happen again. It would have been nice if when it was time for the rebuild, JR realized part of the problem was the guys whose decisions hardly ever seemed to work out, and hired someone else to give it a shot. Edited March 13, 2022 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Wait for it.... 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, soxfan3530 said: This better mean Conforto in RF Good morning ....wake-up people, that's not happening. There will be no RF signing. We will go to opening day with what we threw out there last year with Leury most likely the starting RF on opening day. Edited March 13, 2022 by A-Train to 35th sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Not really. They had Madrigal, a minimum guy doing a good job. Replaced him with a more expensive , less productive guy. Then replaced him with an even more expensive even less productive guy. I had no issue with the Sox acquiring Kimbrel. I did have a problem with them giving up Madrigal , and I mentioned it right away. It was going to cost you a lot more to get what he brought. It’s costing them a lot more for lesser players. I am assuming the Kelly signing means they have found a Kimbrel taker, but I would never have thought Harrison was their 2B solution, so that assumption may be wrong too. Except for2005, the only year the White Sox ever won a playoff series in 99.99% of the living populations lifetime, these type of signings have mostly blown up in their face. And it seems likely it will happen again. It would have been nice if when it was time for the rebuild, JR realized part of the problem was the guys whose decisions hardly ever seemed to work out, and hired someone else to give it a shot. JR is a business guy who looks at things from that perspective. He works closely with RH and KW on a daily basis like he would a VP in his real estate business. When something goes wrong he realizes what went into the decision and views it as a team mistake. I've always been unimpressed with KW but RH does a very good job IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said: Good morning ....wake-up people, that's not happening. There will be no RF signing. We will go to opening day with what we threw out there last year with Leury most likely the starting RF on opening day. How do you know this? Do you have a source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Wait for it.... Was this in reference to a trade or a big bat signing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Not really. They had Madrigal, a minimum guy doing a good job. Replaced him with a more expensive , less productive guy. Then replaced him with an even more expensive even less productive guy. I had no issue with the Sox acquiring Kimbrel. I did have a problem with them giving up Madrigal , and I mentioned it right away. It was going to cost you a lot more to get what he brought. It’s costing them a lot more for lesser players. I am assuming the Kelly signing means they have found a Kimbrel taker, but I would never have thought Harrison was their 2B solution, so that assumption may be wrong too. Except for2005, the only year the White Sox ever won a playoff series in 99.99% of the living populations lifetime, these type of signings have mostly blown up in their face. And it seems likely it will happen again. It would have been nice if when it was time for the rebuild, JR realized part of the problem was the guys whose decisions hardly ever seemed to work out, and hired someone else to give it a shot. I didn't have a problem giving up Madrigal. I loved the Kimbrel signing and still believe it will work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 BTW we are assuming he's our 2nd base solution. He could be the right field solution. Let's get he and Garcia out there on the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: And that’s the problem. We’re spending $11M on two guys who mostly do the same thing plus have a younger guy in Romy who mostly does the same thing. Like we can’t even combine Harrison & Leury to form a good 2B platoon. And now we have one less spot to address our weakness against RHP. I like the Kelly move, but this one is pretty frustrating. I guess this means we aren't getting Jeff McNeil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Texsox said: I didn't have a problem giving up Madrigal. I loved the Kimbrel signing and still believe it will work out. The one concern with Madrigal, and it is legit, is health, but even if he plays half the season at this point, he is far more cost effective than what he was replaced with. If JR starts throwing money around like he just won the Powerball, OK. But a Harrison signing tells me, he’s still looking for a bargain at TJMaxx. Edited March 13, 2022 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said: Good morning ....wake-up people, that's not happening. There will be no RF signing. We will go to opening day with what we threw out there last year with Leury most likely the starting RF on opening day. Hope I am wrong but I have this gut feeling that RF will be Vaughn and Sheets this year with a little bit of Engel int he 8th and 9th innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Texsox said: BTW we are assuming he's our 2nd base solution. He could be the right field solution. Let's get he and Garcia out there on the right side. Quote 🤮 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 10 hours ago, VAfan said: I still don't understand why people think the Sox are going to get a "big bat" for RF. Especially one they think is going to "stabilize the middle of the order." Here's the Sox lineup, no matter who they sign. 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Robert 4. Abreu 5, Grandal 6. Jimenez No one left on the market is going to move any of those guys off their spots. After the top 6, the Sox currently have 7. Sheets/Vaughn DH/RF/1B platoon. Against righties, Sheets had a 143 wRC+, and against lefties, Vaughn had a 156 wRC+. Who the hell on the market did better than that? Certainly not Conforto (106 wRC+), Castellanos (140 wRC+), or Kris Bryant (123 wRC+). 8. Engel/Vaughn/Sheets. Since the Sox will rotate other guys into the DH slot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez - they need somewhere to put Sheets/Vaughn when someone else is DHing. RF is one of those places. (1B and LF is another). If you sign a RF, you are going to stunt the development of Vaughn especially, because he needs time to hit right handers better, and he's not going to supplant Sheets against righties, and he's certainly not going to displace Abreu or Jimenez on a regular basis at 1B or LF. Meanwhile, Engel, in limited ABs, has put up a wRC+ of 121 in 2020, and 127 in 2021. Plus, he's by far the best defender of anyone being discussed. If he could stay healthy, I think we all might be shocked how good of a hitter Adam Engel has become. (Think of the improvement James McCann made. Engel reminds me of McCann.) So, I've been arguing all offseason against doing much in RF. I think the Sox need to develop the young guys they have and use the money they would spend on a RF FA on starting pitching. That's why I wanted Rodon back. But since that ship has sailed, spend the money to extend Lucas Giolito. Look at Tampa Bay. They win because they develop their own guys, focus on developing a deep pitching staff, and trade established guys about to hit it big for more young guys they can develop. The Sox will not have "failed" if they don't sign a big name RF. They have 3 hitters between DH and RF who have put up wRC+ numbers better than almost all of those guys, and who are all on dirt-cheap contracts. P.S. The other reason not to sign the "big bat" for RF is they would likely want a multi-year deal. But as someone above reminded me, the future in RF for the Sox is likely Oscar Colas or Yoenis Cespedes. Neither will likely be ready this year, but they might be by next year. Spot on, great post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: How do you know this? Do you have a source? 50 plus years of following this team is my source. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 47 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: There it is. The aging veteran one year deal who is likely to be released at some point. Oh wait, maybe I should see what they do with RF before announcing that haha I think he’s got enough floor / versatility to avoid being DFAed down the road, but it’s a lot of money for a skill set we already have quite a bit of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 For some reason, I have a feeling the Sox are thinking of trading Eloy. I hope not. I think if he can play 150 games, he’s a 40 homer guy, easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I’m not too concerned with RF defense. The Sox won the WS with a bad defensive RF who was the WS MVP. With Robert in CF and Engel for late innings, i doubt A poor defender in RF, as long as the bat is really productive, is going to cost you wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The one concern with Madrigal, and it is legit, is health, but even if he plays half the season at this point, he is far more cost effective than what he was replaced with. If JR starts throwing money around like he just won the Powerball, OK. But a Harrison signing tells me, he’s still looking for a bargain at TJMaxx. The other concern with Madrigal was his clubhouse fit. There are rumors that he’s a bit of an oddball and rubbed some guys the wrong way. Harrison should be a big upgrade and is also likely a defensive improvement to some degree. Just sucks we’re paying $5M more for a guy who is massive downgrade offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The one concern with Madrigal, and it is legit, is health, but even if he plays half the season at this point, he is far more cost effective than what he was replaced with. If JR starts throwing money around like he just won the Powerball, OK. But a Harrison signing tells me, he’s still looking for a bargain at TJMaxx. Even half a season is a stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: For some reason, I have a feeling the Sox are thinking of trading Eloy. I hope not. I think if he can play 150 games, he’s a 40 homer guy, easy. For what? I don’t want these guys getting cute and thinking they’re going to pull off a Carlos Lee 2.0 trade. Eloy has a chance to be a top 5 hitter in the league and we’d be selling super low by moving him right now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The other concern with Madrigal was his clubhouse fit. There are rumors that he’s a bit of an oddball and rubbed some guys the wrong way. Harrison should be a big upgrade and is also likely a defensive improvement to some degree. Just sucks we’re paying $5M more for a guy who is massive downgrade offensively. I have never met him, so I have no idea, but even if he is an oddball, it didn’t seem to effect the team when he was on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I’m not too concerned with RF defense. The Sox won the WS with a bad defensive RF who was the WS MVP. With Robert in CF and Engel for late innings, i doubt A poor defender in RF, as long as the bat is really productive, is going to cost you wins. Dye wasn’t nearly as bad in 2005 as he was in later years, but regardless, having two shitty corner OFs would really hurt us. Robert’s range can help mitigate our challenges in LF, but he’s going to be overexposed if flanked by two poor defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: For what? I don’t want these guys getting cute and thinking they’re going to pull off a Carlos Lee 2.0 trade. Eloy has a chance to be a top 5 hitter in the league and we’d be selling super low by moving him right now. That’s what I am thinking. They have Stone mentioning every time he makes a media appearance how Eloy misses cutoff men. I’ve seen him miss cutoff men, but Stone makes it seem like it’s 5 times a game. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I just have a feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Dye wasn’t nearly as bad in 2005 as he was in later years, but regardless, having two shitty corner OFs would really hurt us. Robert’s range can help mitigate our challenges in LF, but he’s going to be overexposed if flanked by two poor defenders. No he wasn’t but he wasn’t good. In fact, fangraphs had him worse than Vaughn last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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