2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I'm pretty sure the Sox has something else in mind for 2B or they probably would have kept Cesar.

Harrison does play just about everywhere on the diamond. He's kind of like a right handed Leury. Had they not re-signed Leury, Harrison would have made more sense to be a utility guy. 

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

You don't need studs at every position to win a WS.

You'll never convince Soxtalk of this. Around here, if you acquire any hitter with an OPS < .850, he's a bum and the team isn't trying to win.

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

He doesn't steal bases. He's an average defender. Tell me what exactly Madrigal does other than poke singles? 

He has the 10th best wRC+ amongst 2B since he debuted. It's higher than Ozzie Albies and Whit Merrifield. Just because he's productive in an unconventional way doesn't mean it isn't valuable.

5 minutes ago, VAfan said:

What was the big move at 2B?  There isn't much on the market, and to trade for an impact 2B would have weakened the Sox elsewhere. 

The only big move I could see would have been to put Moncada back at 2B to make room for a strong hitting FA 3B.  No one seemed to pick up on that, however. And it's true that Moncada is a better 3B than he ever was at 2B.  We need Moncada's 2019 bat to return, so moving him likely also wouldn't have helped that chance.  

You don't need studs at every position to win a WS.  Whomever we had at 2B is likely going to be our 9th place hitter.  All we need is someone who's league average, and Josh Harrison has been that the last 2 years.

The “big move” didn’t need to be at 2b. I didn’t say that. 
 

But the Sox weren’t that close to Houston last season, and thus far are a worse team in 2022 than 2021. Josh Harrison and Joe Kelly aren’t pushing this team over the edge. That’s the point. 

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

1. Was pissed off at the trade the moment I heard about it

2. Should have been aggressive for them.

3. It's not my job to deep dive 2b, but they could get creative in trades guys like idk Josh Rojas, Ketel Marte, Gavin Lux, Ryan McMahon, etc. etc. Josh harrison is almost guranteed to go the same route Mazarra, Eaton, Jimmy Rollins, and many other of these white sox moves go.

I didn’t and still don’t like the Madrigal trade. But I’ve moved on. Prob best you do too. 

Look, I’m not excited about Josh Harrison. They definitely could have done better. But the FA list was very thin. Most of us expected a plug and play 2B to bat in the 9 hole and we got that. I for one am glad he’s at least a good defender and can play round the Diamond. He fills that need. Wish he batted left handed; really head scratcher for me. 

Now let’s hope the Sox have higher hopes for RF. I am not as confident as others that another mid rotation or better SP is needed, but there another avenue where improvement is doable. Other than that, this team is stacked man. We don’t need 9 all stars in the lineup. Harrison/Leury/Romy/Mendick/maybe even some Burger is fine 2B depth, albeit not exciting by any means. 

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I didn’t and still don’t like the Madrigal trade. But I’ve moved on. Prob best you do too. 

Look, I’m not excited about Josh Harrison. They definitely could have done better. But the FA list was very thin. Most of us expected a plug and play 2B to bat in the 9 hole and we got that. I for one am glad he’s at least a good defender and can play round the Diamond. He fills that need. Wish he batted left handed; really head scratcher for me.  

Now let’s hope the Sox have higher hopes for RF. I am not as confident as others that another mid rotation or better SP is needed, but there another avenue where improvement is doable. Other than that, this team is stacked man. We don’t need 9 all stars in the lineup. Harrison/Leury/Romy/Mendick/maybe even some Burger is fine 2B depth, albeit not exciting by any means. 

If they go out and grab me a top bat and find a way to get a solid SP, i'll be happy content enough with mr. harrison

I'm not gonna lie, this did pop in my head when I posted "who cares who bats 9th?". 

5 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I'm not gonna lie, this did pop in my head when I posted "who cares who bats 9th?". 

It’s always so sobering when I remember who’s at the helm. Oh well. Past his prime and definitely not a guy I loce but he’s forgotten more about baseball than any of us will ever know. Just hope he stays out of his own way moving forward. 

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

If they get one of the big name right fielders then I'll be ok with this

White Sox roster moves that involve this line of thinking usually end in disappointment. Yet year after year we keep thinking it’ll be different. 

Lol yeah

1 minute ago, Flash Tizzle said:

White Sox roster moves that involve this line of thinking usually end in disappointment. Yet year after year we keep thinking it’ll be different. 

Those of us who had our formative years as a fan in the early 2000s will never forget. 

My thoughts are that they bring in Pederson, trade for Manaea and call it a day. 

Edited March 13, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman

Harrison is at least a plus defender correct? 

16 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Harrison does play just about everywhere on the diamond. He's kind of like a right handed Leury. Had they not re-signed Leury, Harrison would have made more sense to be a utility guy. 

This has to mean that a serious RF will not be added. They didn’t pay Leury to sit around much. Nor Harrison. Face it, they are waiting for the Colas/Cespedes era

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Those of us who had our formative years as a fan in the early 2000s will never forget. 

My thoughts are that they bring in Pederson, trade for Manaea and call it a day. 

The problem with Manaea is he's represented by Boras. So you're not likely to get him to sign a team friendly extension like Lance Lynn did last year. He's probably going to leave after 1 season. You better not pay too much for him.

Just now, soxfan3530 said:

Harrison is at least a plus defender correct? 

Depends on who you ask. Career-wise he's been pretty average. But he's about to be 35, so who knows where his legs are. 

Just now, Sarava said:

The problem with Manaea is he's represented by Boras. So you're not likely to get him to sign a team friendly extension like Lance Lynn did last year. He's probably going to leave after 1 season. You better not pay too much for him.

I prefer going after Montas personally, but I don't think they're going for him. 

42 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Like a lot of people alluded to in here, this signing is ok if we get a big bat for RF. Because honestly, you don't need a huge bat in the 9th spot. If Harrison can play solid enough defense at 2B and give you a wRC+ close to 100, that's good enough. If they go out and get a Castellanos or Conforto type to stabilize the middle of the order, it doesn't really matter who hits 9th. 

I still don't understand why people think the Sox are going to get a "big bat" for RF.  Especially one they think is going to "stabilize the middle of the order."

Here's the Sox lineup, no matter who they sign.

1. Anderson
2. Moncada
3. Robert
4. Abreu
5, Grandal
6. Jimenez

No one left on the market is going to move any of those guys off their spots. 

After the top 6, the Sox currently have

7. Sheets/Vaughn DH/RF/1B platoon.   Against righties, Sheets had a 143 wRC+, and against lefties, Vaughn had a 156 wRC+.   Who the hell on the market did better than that?  Certainly not Conforto (106 wRC+), Castellanos (140 wRC+), or Kris Bryant (123 wRC+). 

8.  Engel/Vaughn/Sheets.  Since the Sox will rotate other guys into the DH slot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez - they need somewhere to put Sheets/Vaughn when someone else is DHing.  RF is one of those places. (1B and LF is another). 

If you sign a RF, you are going to stunt the development of Vaughn especially, because he needs time to hit right handers better, and he's not going to supplant Sheets against righties, and he's certainly not going to displace Abreu or Jimenez on a regular basis at 1B or LF.

Meanwhile, Engel, in limited ABs, has put up a wRC+ of 121 in 2020, and 127 in 2021.  Plus, he's by far the best defender of anyone being discussed.  If he could stay healthy, I think we all might be shocked how good of a hitter Adam Engel has become.  (Think of the improvement James McCann made.  Engel reminds me of McCann.)

So, I've been arguing all offseason against doing much in RF.  I think the Sox need to develop the young guys they have and use the money they would spend on a RF FA on starting pitching.  That's why I wanted Rodon back.  But since that ship has sailed, spend the money to extend Lucas Giolito.  

Look at Tampa Bay.  They win because they develop their own guys, focus on developing a deep pitching staff, and trade established guys about to hit it big for more young guys they can develop.  

The Sox will not have "failed" if they don't sign a big name RF.  They have 3 hitters between DH and RF who have put up wRC+ numbers better than almost all of those guys, and who are all on dirt-cheap contracts.  

P.S.  The other reason not to sign the "big bat" for RF is they would likely want a multi-year deal.  But as someone above reminded me, the future in RF for the Sox is likely Oscar Colas or Yoenis Cespedes.  Neither will likely be ready this year, but they might be by next year. 

Edited March 13, 20224 yr by VAfan

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I prefer going after Montas personally, but I don't think they're going for him. 

Yeah, he has 2 years left and that probably might cost Vaughn.

The Sox clearly didn’t want Rodon back. You really need to get over it.

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

I still don't understand why people think the Sox are going to get a "big bat" for RF.  Especially one they think is going to "stabilize the middle of the order."

Here's the Sox lineup, no matter who they sign.

1. Anderson
2. Moncada
3. Robert
4. Abreu
5, Grandal
6. Jimenez

No one left on the market is going to move any of those guys off their spots. 

After the top 6, the Sox currently have

7. Sheets/Vaughn DH/RF/1B platoon.   Against righties, Sheets had a 143 wRC+, and against lefties, Vaughn had a 156 wRC+.   Who the hell on the market did better than that?  Certainly not Conforto (106 wRC+), Castellanos (140 wRC+), or Kris Bryant (123 wRC+). 

8.  Engel/Vaughn/Sheets.  Since the Sox will rotate other guys into the DH slot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez - they need somewhere to put Sheets/Vaughn when someone else is DHing.  RF is one of those places. (1B and LF is another). 

If you sign a RF, you are going to stunt the development of Vaughn especially, because he needs time to hit right handers better, and he's not going to supplant Sheets against righties, and he's certainly not going to displace Abreu or Jimenez on a regular basis at 1B or LF.

Meanwhile, Engel, in limited ABs, has put up a wRC+ of 121 in 2020, and 127 in 2021.  Plus, he's by far the best defender of anyone being discussed.  If he could stay healthy, I think we all might be shocked how good of a hitter Adam Engel has become.  (Think of the improvement James McCann made.  Engel reminds me of McCann.)

So, I've been arguing all offseason against doing much in RF.  I think the Sox need to develop the young guys they have and use the money they would spend on a RF FA on starting pitching.  That's why I wanted Rodon back.  But since that ship has sailed, spend the money to extend Lucas Giolito.  

Look at Tampa Bay.  They win because they develop their own guys, focus on developing a deep pitching staff, and trade established guys about to hit it big for more young guys they can develop.  

The Sox will not have "failed" if they don't sign a big name RF.  They have 3 hitters between DH and RF who have put up wRC+ numbers better than almost all of those guys, and who are all on dirt-cheap contracts.  

Schwarber would 100% force himself into the top 6 of the lineup, and he's be light years better than a Sheets/Vaughn DH platoon.

If the Sox signed a Kyle Schwarber, you absolutely would throw him in the middle of the top 6. That's the point, to break up and balance the lineup.

Just now, fathom said:

The Sox clearly didn’t want Rodon back. You really need to get over it.

I'm OK with not signing him, but given the contract he got, Rodon obviously would have rejected the QO and not giving it was really stupid. Sox just gave up a free draft pick.

One thing getting Harrison does is make me think the Sox might try to pry away Nimmo from the Mets for his last year before Free Agency. If they can go rental with a pitcher they can go rental with RF.

Also with the way they keep talking about starting pitching . Any big trade chips may go towards pitching.

I'm also less inclined to think they have the balls to sign Conforto . They will nickel and dime the position players and use big trade chips for SP.

With Romy and Yolmer and Colas despite the thinking that these minor leaguers shouldn't influence the decision making process that's exactly what we are going to get.

The next move should be to rid themselves of Kimbrel if anyone is hoping for Conforto.

Can't get over how bad this move is. Joe Kelly makes some sense to an extent and is a potentially quality player. Josh Harrison is replaceable by Romy Gonzalez. I'd say it's greater than 45% that Romy would outperform Harrison if they played the same amount next year. 

7 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

Harrison is at least a plus defender correct? 

Yep just like I said before they got Kelly but the Graveman and Kelly moves are GB type relief pitchers. Despite everyone hoping TLR can influence JR to spend money what it's done is reinforce the Hahn ideology of more and more relief pitching and the defense needed to support it. It's also cheaper than getting good position players so JR loves it.