1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Harrison will give you energy, that one I promise.

Which frankly this team needs more of.

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Which frankly this team needs more of.

Fair.

I remember when we actually had a 2nd basemen for the future.

I like the addition of Harrison. Versatile player, which is a plus, and two time all-star

Typical White Sox move, fill holes with average/below average players and hope for the best. When will they realize that spending a couple million here and there for Harrison, Goodwin, Hernandez types adds up to signing one major league quality player which they seem to be allergic too. 

14 minutes ago, soulfly said:

I remember when we actually had a 2nd basemen for the future.

I miss D. Jimenez

Don't have a problem with this.  I think they have their sites set on the major upgrade in RF/DH.  Would prefer Schwarber but will definitely take Conforto

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

I miss D. Jimenez

Haha.  I actually went to look up to see if that trade ever lead to anyone on the team, years later.  The trail ended with Scott Schoeneweis.  Bummer

Didn't think the sox needed another utility infielder, but okay.

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Didn't think the sox needed another utility infielder, but okay.

This is one thing I understand the need for.

3 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah I honestly thought he was a lefty too. Disappointing. Not even a natural platoon with Leury. Brad Miller would have been a much better option.

Just getting to this thread, but I do not like this move in isolation. Harrison brings a nice glove, but his bat is too redundant with Leury’s.  If we were going cheap, Brad Miller made a fuckton more sense.

At least it wasn’t Villar but paying for 1 WAR players definitely has a 2015-16 white sox feel to it.

7 hours ago, chw42 said:

Harrison does play just about everywhere on the diamond. He's kind of like a right handed Leury. Had they not re-signed Leury, Harrison would have made more sense to be a utility guy. 

And that’s the problem.  We’re spending $11M on two guys who mostly do the same thing plus have a younger guy in Romy who mostly does the same thing.  Like we can’t even combine Harrison & Leury to form a good 2B platoon.  And now we have one less spot to address our weakness against RHP.  I like the Kelly move, but this one is pretty frustrating.

7 hours ago, VAfan said:

I still don't understand why people think the Sox are going to get a "big bat" for RF.  Especially one they think is going to "stabilize the middle of the order."

Here's the Sox lineup, no matter who they sign.

1. Anderson
2. Moncada
3. Robert
4. Abreu
5, Grandal
6. Jimenez

No one left on the market is going to move any of those guys off their spots. 

After the top 6, the Sox currently have

7. Sheets/Vaughn DH/RF/1B platoon.   Against righties, Sheets had a 143 wRC+, and against lefties, Vaughn had a 156 wRC+.   Who the hell on the market did better than that?  Certainly not Conforto (106 wRC+), Castellanos (140 wRC+), or Kris Bryant (123 wRC+). 

8.  Engel/Vaughn/Sheets.  Since the Sox will rotate other guys into the DH slot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez - they need somewhere to put Sheets/Vaughn when someone else is DHing.  RF is one of those places. (1B and LF is another). 

If you sign a RF, you are going to stunt the development of Vaughn especially, because he needs time to hit right handers better, and he's not going to supplant Sheets against righties, and he's certainly not going to displace Abreu or Jimenez on a regular basis at 1B or LF.

Meanwhile, Engel, in limited ABs, has put up a wRC+ of 121 in 2020, and 127 in 2021.  Plus, he's by far the best defender of anyone being discussed.  If he could stay healthy, I think we all might be shocked how good of a hitter Adam Engel has become.  (Think of the improvement James McCann made.  Engel reminds me of McCann.)

So, I've been arguing all offseason against doing much in RF.  I think the Sox need to develop the young guys they have and use the money they would spend on a RF FA on starting pitching.  That's why I wanted Rodon back.  But since that ship has sailed, spend the money to extend Lucas Giolito.  

Look at Tampa Bay.  They win because they develop their own guys, focus on developing a deep pitching staff, and trade established guys about to hit it big for more young guys they can develop.  

The Sox will not have "failed" if they don't sign a big name RF.  They have 3 hitters between DH and RF who have put up wRC+ numbers better than almost all of those guys, and who are all on dirt-cheap contracts.  

P.S.  The other reason not to sign the "big bat" for RF is they would likely want a multi-year deal.  But as someone above reminded me, the future in RF for the Sox is likely Oscar Colas or Yoenis Cespedes.  Neither will likely be ready this year, but they might be by next year. 

Hope you’re super excited about Colas or Cespedes when we get our asses beat up in the first round of the playoffs again thanks in part to shitty RF defense and a lack of LH power.  There is no guarantee that Sheets comes anywhere close to replicating those numbers.  And if you believe he can, then we should make him the primary DH, sign Conforto for RF, and trade Vaughn for a legit TOR starter.

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And that’s the problem.  We’re spending $11M on two guys who mostly do the same thing plus have a younger guy in Romy who mostly does the same thing.  Like we can’t even combine Harrison & Leury to form a good 2B platoon.  And now we have one less spot to address our weakness against RHP.  I like the Kelly move, but this one is pretty frustrating.

Harrison appears to be more a true 2B than Leury, but yeah between Leury, Harrison, Romy, Sanchez and Gonzales et al, the Sox seem to be leading the majors/minors in Utes. Whether any of them join the Zobrist Super-Ute club, well one can only hope.

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

This is one thing I understand the need for.

Yeah, if this were to replace Mendick as the backup infielder it makes more sense, but still, all these ~$5M role players add up and are a poor use of our money when we have much bigger holes to address.

Also, is this deal $4M base salary for 2022 + $1.5M buyout for 2023 = $5.5M.  I still can’t wrap my head around how this dude got $5.5M otherwise.

5 hours ago, fathom said:

I miss D. Jimenez

I miss Ray Durham.

26 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Harrison appears to be more a true 2B than Leury, but yeah between Leury, Harrison, Romy, Sanchez and Gonzales et al, the Sox seem to be leading the majors/minors in Utes. Whether any of them join the Zobrist Super-Ute club, well one can only hope.

The problem is almost none of them can be counted on to put up a 2.5-3.0 fWAR season...it's a constant game of musical chairs trying to hit on a lottery ticket from year to year, like trying Mazara in RF.

Of we could just produce our own solid utility and bullpen guys...we would have been able to save a ton of money that could have been allocated elsewhere.

Has Brett Lawrie’s feet healed yet?

9 hours ago, VAfan said:

I still don't understand why people think the Sox are going to get a "big bat" for RF.  Especially one they think is going to "stabilize the middle of the order."

Here's the Sox lineup, no matter who they sign.

1. Anderson
2. Moncada
3. Robert
4. Abreu
5, Grandal
6. Jimenez

No one left on the market is going to move any of those guys off their spots. 

After the top 6, the Sox currently have

7. Sheets/Vaughn DH/RF/1B platoon.   Against righties, Sheets had a 143 wRC+, and against lefties, Vaughn had a 156 wRC+.   Who the hell on the market did better than that?  Certainly not Conforto (106 wRC+), Castellanos (140 wRC+), or Kris Bryant (123 wRC+). 

8.  Engel/Vaughn/Sheets.  Since the Sox will rotate other guys into the DH slot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez - they need somewhere to put Sheets/Vaughn when someone else is DHing.  RF is one of those places. (1B and LF is another). 

If you sign a RF, you are going to stunt the development of Vaughn especially, because he needs time to hit right handers better, and he's not going to supplant Sheets against righties, and he's certainly not going to displace Abreu or Jimenez on a regular basis at 1B or LF.

Meanwhile, Engel, in limited ABs, has put up a wRC+ of 121 in 2020, and 127 in 2021.  Plus, he's by far the best defender of anyone being discussed.  If he could stay healthy, I think we all might be shocked how good of a hitter Adam Engel has become.  (Think of the improvement James McCann made.  Engel reminds me of McCann.)

So, I've been arguing all offseason against doing much in RF.  I think the Sox need to develop the young guys they have and use the money they would spend on a RF FA on starting pitching.  That's why I wanted Rodon back.  But since that ship has sailed, spend the money to extend Lucas Giolito.  

Look at Tampa Bay.  They win because they develop their own guys, focus on developing a deep pitching staff, and trade established guys about to hit it big for more young guys they can develop.  

The Sox will not have "failed" if they don't sign a big name RF.  They have 3 hitters between DH and RF who have put up wRC+ numbers better than almost all of those guys, and who are all on dirt-cheap contracts.  

P.S.  The other reason not to sign the "big bat" for RF is they would likely want a multi-year deal.  But as someone above reminded me, the future in RF for the Sox is likely Oscar Colas or Yoenis Cespedes.  Neither will likely be ready this year, but they might be by next year. 

I view RF as you do.  That is why I thought they would shoot high at 2nd base.  Of course, if they trade Vaughn in an SP trade...a right fielder would then need to be acquired.

7 hours ago, soulfly said:

I remember when we actually had a 2nd basemen for the future. Bummer he was often injured and never completed a full season.

Finished it for you. Every mention of Nick should include phrases like

"Often injured", "delicate", and "unlucky", "rehabbing", "unreliable".

I hope he has a great career, but if they traded for him, this board would hate the move pointing out his injury history and how we need guys to stay healthy to compete.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And that’s the problem.  We’re spending $11M on two guys who mostly do the same thing plus have a younger guy in Romy who mostly does the same thing.  Like we can’t even combine Harrison & Leury to form a good 2B platoon.  And now we have one less spot to address our weakness against RHP.  I like the Kelly move, but this one is pretty frustrating.

A couple days removed and we forgot the sacrifice these players made for the future of baseball. If there is anything I learned this winter is MLB teams make too much money. $11 million should be $15 million. We should be outraged they only are paying him $5.5 million. He can't work anywhere else, has a short career, and deserves more of the profits than ownership. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And that’s the problem.  We’re spending $11M on two guys who mostly do the same thing plus have a younger guy in Romy who mostly does the same thing.  Like we can’t even combine Harrison & Leury to form a good 2B platoon.  And now we have one less spot to address our weakness against RHP.  I like the Kelly move, but this one is pretty frustrating.

We need to see the offseason in its entirety to judge this deal.  Building up the BP while adding a quality SP seems like a reasonable area of improvement.  Vaughn is a decision that none of us know how the FO wants to proceed.  If we keep him he needs to play.  He is probably our biggest trade chip if we go that route.  Kimbrel is an unanswered work in progress.  RH clearly thinks his market worth is superior to how this forum values his talent.  The next few days should answer most of these questions.  I'll wait to judge the end result.

There it is. The aging veteran one year deal who is likely to be released at some point. Oh wait, maybe I should see what they do with RF before announcing that haha