Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Didn't you say a few times that 5/110 was reasonable ? That's $22M per year. I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: Bc I'm practical and look at things as if I'm running the team. Say you over pay by $5M per year and give him the 5 years. What happens if he is a complete dud.... You then are stuck with a highly overpaid crappy OF that you cannot trade or get rid of. Think the Cubs with Hayward. That means he will be our RF (playing like shit) for 5 years, no matter how good any prospects in the system now or traded for are playing. Now if you saved that $25M, his contract could be more palatable to trade for or we could use that money to pay some of it to get something better in a deal. If he however is great than his value would be increased if he were traded, if he were not to be traded than that opens up the extra money to spend on other positional needs to build a really good team What happens if he is like the OF he was in the past? Then you have a steal of a deal.. "what ifs" can happen both ways 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: 100% true. Yet 80% of this board thinks we are getting Belly or Haniger, pure insanity reigning supreme on soxtalk 🤣 Speaking just for myself, the reason that acquiring Bellinger is plausible, is that he will be a free agent in 2 years, and could represent another even higher notch over the salary cap, and thus a big tax hit. The Dodgers have first base covered with Freeman, and the outfield covered with Pollock, Taylor and Betts. It would probably take more than Kimbrel, but if either money, or talent were included, it might be feasible. L.A. could now use a closer. I understand that sometimes it appears that the Dodgers' front office really doesn't care about money, but I suspect that they do. There is a limit. Edited March 21, 2022 by Lillian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: What happens if he is like the OF he was in the past? Then you have a steal of a deal.. "what ifs" can happen both ways I addressed that as well.... Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: If he however is great than his value would be increased if he were traded, if he were not to be traded than that opens up the extra money to spend on other positional needs to build a really good team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: Bc I'm practical and look at things as if I'm running the team. Say you over pay by $5M per year and give him the 5 years. What happens if he is a complete dud.... You then are stuck with a highly overpaid crappy OF that you cannot trade or get rid of. Think the Cubs with Hayward. That means he will be our RF (playing like shit) for 5 years, no matter how good any prospects in the system now or traded for are playing. Now if you saved that $25M, his contract could be more palatable to trade for or we could use that money to pay some of it to get something better in a deal. If he however is great than his value would be increased if he were traded, if he were not to be traded than that opens up the extra money to spend on other positional needs to build a really good team Just to stress this - the Cubs got about as bad of results as possible with Heyward. They also won the world series once and made the playoffs for like 5 consecutive seasons before having to rebuild, and TBH Heyward's contract was only a small part of the decision to rebuild - a much bigger issue was the fact that Schwarber, Bryant, and Baez got $450 million between them this offseason or whatever the number was, and holding onto those players just wasn't practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Gio is gone in 2 years. He isn't taking an extension unless its an overpay. TA we have plenty of time to figure out, but realistically, he's probably gone too. Just hard for me to get too worked up about the 2025 season right now. Sox best window is closed by then and they'll be fully in re-tool mode. Gio is not the hometown discount type IMO. TA is much more likely to sign a reasonable contract IMO. I might be wrong but that's the way I see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Lillian said: Speaking just for myself, the reason that acquiring Bellinger is plausible, is that he will be a free agent in 2 years, and could represent another even higher notch over the salary cap, and thus a big tax hit. The Dodgers have both first base and the outfield covered with Pollock, Taylor and Betts. It would probably take more than Kimbrel, but if either money, or talent were included, it could be feasible. L.A. could now use a closer. I understand that sometimes it appears that the Dodgers' front office really doesn't care about money, but I suspect that they do. There is a limit. I don't disagree that the Dodgers are caring about money - they're actually right up against the Cohen Tax, but probably not across it, and that isn't a coincidence. But what does it mean for the White Sox to take on some of the money from Kimbrel's contract and pay Bellinger? Let's imagine that the White Sox paid half of Kimbrel's contract, generating $8 million in savings for the Dodgers. Now the White Sox have taken on $24 million to pay for Bellinger - the money they paid for Kimbrel and Bellinger's contract. The Dodgers are happy with the savings, but the White Sox have pushed their payroll up by an extra $8 million. Are the White Sox going to do that? Would you pay $24 million to pick up Bellinger for 1 year if he was a free agent right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I've seen Texas speculated for Conforto but I've heard similar on their reluctance. They are forfeiting their 2nd and 3rd rounder. In theory, it makes sense to just add the player and forfeit your 4th as well. The issue is that there are 3 stud prep position players in this class and the Rangers may need to go over slot at #3 to land one of them. Conforto is in a tough spot. I don't think anyone is meeting the perceived asking price of 5/100. A short-deal with opt-outs is likely preferred at this point but there's a very limited market for that I'd think. . Yeah, the possible need for Texas to go over slot in the next draft is something not discussed much, but was something Rangers’ beat writers & fans were discussing pretty confidently. I don’t see Texas giving up that bonus pool for Conforto when they can wait a year and avoid any QO impacts. At this point, I’m really struggling to see much of a market for Conforto. Obviously all I takes is one team to do something stupid, but Sox should be a decent position assuming they are still interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: Bc I'm practical and look at things as if I'm running the team. Say you over pay by $5M per year and give him the 5 years. What happens if he is a complete dud.... You then are stuck with a highly overpaid crappy OF that you cannot trade or get rid of. Think the Cubs with Hayward. That means he will be our RF (playing like shit) for 5 years, no matter how good any prospects in the system now or traded for are playing. Now if you saved that $25M, his contract could be more palatable to trade for or we could use that money to pay some of it to get something better in a deal. If he however is great than his value would be increased if he were traded, if he were not to be traded than that opens up the extra money to spend on other positional needs to build a really good team So you see the Sox releasing a lot of 15 million dollar players but not 20? If you are trying to get a "good deal" in marquee free agency then you're not getting any deal. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: I think Conforto is going to get a shorter deal now. His market is thinning out, unless a team like the Padres come in last minute. In situations like this, though, Boras' MO is pretty much always to get an early opt out in the deal. And it makes perfect sense for Conforto: gives him an opportunity to have a bounce back year, allows him to shed the QO, and allows time for the covid mandates/restrictions to possibly be dropped (opening up the NY teams and TOR as possibilities). There is close to a 0% chance he signs a 4/75 deal or something like that with no opt outs. If it's 4/75, there will be an early opt out. Otherwise, I think he'll sign a 1 year deal. There will certainly be some team out there willing to sacrifice the draft pick to sign Conforto to a one year contract. This is all to say that the Sox have to offer an opt out if they want Conforto. They have to. Or there's no prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Yeah, the possible need for Texas to go over slot in the next draft is something not discussed much, but was something Rangers’ beat writers & fans were discussing pretty confidently. I don’t see Texas giving up that bonus pool for Conforto when they can wait a year and avoid any QO impacts. At this point, I’m really struggling to see much of a market for Conforto. Obviously all I takes is one team to do something stupid, but Sox should be a decent position assuming they are still interested. I know we'd all like to point to the Padres as the team that would hurt us (again), but will they give up pool funds and a pick to sign Conforto when they also need to dump at least one of Hosmer or Myers, which will require attaching a prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: I addressed that as well.... 5 million dollars isn't changing you from building a "really good team" and a bad one. As we saw, 5 million dollars to the White Sox means Josh Harrison. I'd rather the Sox have less small money deals available to them; would probably make the roster better in general lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 FO has now has a few days to mull over their 3 offers for Kimbrel. It was reported the transaction would address the RF need and it was a few days away. That was before the weekend. Is it possible they are putting it on hold and circling back to Conforto because of his cooling market? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Quin said: I know we'd all like to point to the Padres as the team that would hurt us (again), but will they give up pool funds and a pick to sign Conforto when they also need to dump at least one of Hosmer or Myers, which will require attaching a prospect? Many of us have expressed doubt that last year's performance for Conforto was a one-off. Looks like many GMs have the same concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: In situations like this, though, Boras' MO is pretty much always to get an early opt out in the deal. And it makes perfect sense for Conforto: gives him an opportunity to have a bounce back year, allows him to shed the QO, and allows time for the covid mandates/restrictions to possibly be dropped (opening up the NY teams and TOR as possibilities). There is close to a 0% chance he signs a 4/75 deal or something like that with no opt outs. If it's 4/75, there will be an early opt out. Otherwise, I think he'll sign a 1 year deal. There will certainly be some team out there willing to sacrifice the draft pick to sign Conforto to a one year contract. This is all to say that the Sox have to offer an opt out if they want Conforto. They have to. Or there's no prayer. Pretty much this. Ofcourse I can see this going off the rails because if the Sox finally give in on the opt out they are gonna want to reduce the total exposure in exchange. Ok Scott we agree to the one year opt out. But instead of 4/75, it will have to be 3/57. He won't go for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't disagree that the Dodgers are caring about money - they're actually right up against the Cohen Tax, but probably not across it, and that isn't a coincidence. But what does it mean for the White Sox to take on some of the money from Kimbrel's contract and pay Bellinger? Let's imagine that the White Sox paid half of Kimbrel's contract, generating $8 million in savings for the Dodgers. Now the White Sox have taken on $24 million to pay for Bellinger - the money they paid for Kimbrel and Bellinger's contract. The Dodgers are happy with the savings, but the White Sox have pushed their payroll up by an extra $8 million. Are the White Sox going to do that? Would you pay $24 million to pick up Bellinger for 1 year if he was a free agent right now? I might. It would be an interesting gamble. However, in fact, there is the second year, when he would get the arbitration money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So you see the Sox releasing a lot of 15 million dollar players but not 20? If you are trying to get a "good deal" in marquee free agency then you're not getting any deal. It's really that simple. I didn't say release anyone And the Sox don't "need" Conforto if they feel Vaughn can play RF. Leury is playing 120+ games so they just need someone to fill in for RF at times. Now would I cut Leury......without thinking twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There is a DH platoon and it will be determined on who we face. RHP will be Sheets,Grandal,Vaughn, Eloy ,Abreu etc based on who needs rest and who is performing. The Sox still don't have enough quality LH hitters to actually take much time away from Sheets at DH. His performance will dictate how much he actuallyplay there. Same thing with facing lefties Vaughn with Engel in RF, Grandal, Abreu, Eloy. Leury will always be in the mix sporadically at DH and RF no matter who pitches. There are no eggs in the basket among those 4 for this year. Mercedes isn't even a considering for much of anything except to be released. Grandal @ DH you are right though a good defensive catcher seems like more of a priority than their hitting. I don't know much about Carlos Perez so he might fill that need internally. Run your platoon scenarios with a injury then do it with two or three. Is it unrealistic that they will need to get at least 150 at bats out of my egg basket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Me? No. I've said I'd stretch to 5/$100M to get it done. I much prefer 4/$80Mish tho and clearly the Sox do as well. Its not my $ tho. Its not like I am going to be mad if they signed him to $5/$110M. $2M AAV is nothing. Sorry , it was Squirmin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Quin said: I know we'd all like to point to the Padres as the team that would hurt us (again), but will they give up pool funds and a pick to sign Conforto when they also need to dump at least one of Hosmer or Myers, which will require attaching a prospect? Yeah, in order for the Padres to screw us again, someone else has to be stupid enough to take on that Hosmer contract. Which I read is actually worse under the new CBA because when a player is traded, their CBT value gets re-calculated from the day they are traded, not the entirety of the contract. If a contract is back-loaded, the CBT hit is much higher if they get traded. Edited March 21, 2022 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 5 million dollars isn't changing you from building a "really good team" and a bad one. As we saw, 5 million dollars to the White Sox means Josh Harrison. I'd rather the Sox have less small money deals available to them; would probably make the roster better in general lol. From what I'd personally pay him, its a lot more than $5M $6M meantql we could have had Joc Pederson so... You also have to think about what that $5M+ over 5 years is gonna be. Say you font spend it at all, you could use that $25M to extend a competent offer to one of our big guys Gio, Timmy, Eloy, Robert, etc You can't just look at $5M in a vacuum, its $5M+ over the length of the contract. Small money over a longer period is big money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Im bored of the same old talk in this thread. Lets discuss an Eloy trade that would improve the MLB club. Who wants to take up the challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said: Run your platoon scenarios with a injury then do it with two or three. Is it unrealistic that they will need to get at least 150 at bats out of my egg basket? I am always in favor of more Left handed pop especially in the OF and on the bench. But since the Sox have failed to address LH pop in RF and ignored it completely at 2B, and still haven't pulled the trigger on a SP or got rid of Kimbrel, I would be thrilled if they converted on their stated priorities . If they did that then depth isn't an issue. A bunch of injuries, sure things look a lot worse like last year. They haven't converted on anything yet except rebuilding the bullpen . They do what they say they wanted to do and things get better depth wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Im bored of the same old talk in this thread. Lets discuss an Eloy trade that would improve the MLB club. Who wants to take up the challenge? I don’t, but this could be a legitimate topic in eight months depending on how this season goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Im bored of the same old talk in this thread. Lets discuss an Eloy trade that would improve the MLB club. Who wants to take up the challenge? A Vaughn or Moncada trade anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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