April 24, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Chimpton said: I would dispute this bit, even the fancy/shiny pieces are broken or clapped out parts! No argument from me!
April 24, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, Dick Allen said: Who in the AL Central has any less constraints than Hahn? Detroit, Minnesota, Cleveland have won the division how many times? KC was in the WS twice. If he was in the AL East, it may be a point, but he just sucks. Always has, always will. Detroit, Cleveland, and Kansas City have all been in the WS multiple times since the Sox last appeared.
April 24, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Tnetennba said: No Jon, this should read TLR wasn't the White Sox *only* issue in 2022. Let's not let anyone whitewash how awful TLR was, how he was always the wrong fit, and how poor a decision it was to drag is pickled corpse out of retirement. Brining him back set the franchise back, but so did the decision to go backwards by hiring him. He was catastrophically bad, but was also a symptom of the greater illness. The narrative last year was extremely loud on how awful Tony was. Every loss was Tony's fault and Tony's fault alone. Entire threads were dedicated to archiving every questionable decision/move he made. Some posters were making WAR calculations for managers out of back of napkin math and credited Tony for at least 8 or 9 losses last year. Hell, one guy ( Balta something or other) wrote an entire thesis in a response to me that Tony was solely responsible for the 2021 ALDS beat down from Houston. A lot of those posters seem awol this year. No more easy punching bag for them I suppose. 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: I still think the LaRussa stench is on this team. It was a horrible hire. i think guys like Heyman know it but don't want to come across as an ageist, if that's a word. But there were a lot of other issues. Relying on players who are always hurt to remain healthy, a rookie in RF, a 2B who has been Leury Garcia level for 4 or 5 years, not doing much with the bullpen even when your star was going to miss time, is not how organizations who usually win, operate. With the White Sox, it's the business model. The Tony era is over. The stench on this team belongs to everyone in the organization.
April 24, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: The narrative last year was extremely loud on how awful Tony was. Every loss was Tony's fault and Tony's fault alone. Entire threads were dedicated to archiving every questionable decision/move he made. Some posters were making WAR calculations for managers out of back of napkin math and credited Tony for at least 8 or 9 losses last year. Hell, one guy ( Balta something or other) wrote an entire thesis in a response to me that Tony was solely responsible for the 2021 ALDS beat down from Houston. A lot of those posters seem awol this year. No more easy punching bag for them I suppose. The Tony era is over. The stench on this team belongs to everyone in the organization. TLR was bad but this team had zero power last year and a s%*# bullpen. They decided to stand pat at the deadline and thought things would just take off. They refuse to believe these players aren't as good as they thought. Rick Hahn is also the biggest issue with the roster, then Jerry.
April 24, 20232 yr The TLR gaslighting this weekend into Monday is amazing. 1. Rick Hahn should have been let go in 2015 after not being able to handle the La Roche situation, and certainly after 2016 after one of the worst four years in White Sox history. 2 TLR was a bad hire and never should been considered for the job. 3. Jerry was the reason TLR was hired and Hahn remains. #Facts
April 24, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: The narrative last year was extremely loud on how awful Tony was. Every loss was Tony's fault and Tony's fault alone. This is not even close to being true but okay
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, GreenSox said: It's been 9 hours. That, I can't abide. It’s been at least 2 years overdue… some could make considerable argument for more years than that… What’s another few days?
April 25, 20232 yr Just an FYI, if the White Sox do what they haven't done all season, and win the next 2 games, they can be the 4th MLB team ever to start the season 9-16 or worse and make the playoffs. If they split the next 2 games, they can be the second team ever to make the playoffs with an 8-17 start. If they lose the next 2 games, no team has ever started out 7-18 and made the playoffs. The season is already over.This is supposed to be the middle of their window. Hahn needs to go today. Rick Hahn is a master of sustained losing. Mired in mediocrity would be a step up. JR has used the Step A to Step B bit many times with both his teams when getting rid of coaches and executives. Has there ever been anyone, withany team, in any sport, that has proven he cannot get a team over the hump more than Rick Hahn? Edited April 25, 20232 yr by Dick Allen
April 25, 20232 yr True enough that Hahn has not done a great job putting together a winning team. But what we're seeing now is a team full of guys who don't care and are not interesting in trying. I'm sick and tired of seeing the lackluster approaches at the plate, the bad inning after bad inning from the starting pitchers, the inability to throw strikes from the bullpen, and the overall lack of interest in getting better. It's nearing time to clean house, both in the front office and in the clubhouse.
April 25, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, hogan873 said: True enough that Hahn has not done a great job putting together a winning team. But what we're seeing now is a team full of guys who don't care and are not interesting in trying. I'm sick and tired of seeing the lackluster approaches at the plate, the bad inning after bad inning from the starting pitchers, the inability to throw strikes from the bullpen, and the overall lack of interest in getting better. It's nearing time to clean house, both in the front office and in the clubhouse. I don't think it's lack of effort at the plate. It's lack of a plan, or executing that plan. It, IMO, all comes back to baseball IQ. This team has traditionally not valued it in any way, but the times they have been successful, they have had players that had some high levels of it. I look at this team and wonder if there are 5 players who could tell you who Cal Ripken is.
April 25, 20232 yr 17 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: The TLR gaslighting this weekend into Monday is amazing. 1. Rick Hahn should have been let go in 2015 after not being able to handle the La Roche situation, and certainly after 2016 after one of the worst four years in White Sox history. 2 TLR was a bad hire and never should been considered for the job. 3. Jerry was the reason TLR was hired and Hahn remains. #Facts I think the issue is that people made it seem like TLR was the only problem with this team. And that his departure would rid this organization of its woes. This organization has failed from top to bottom and Hahn should be fired at the conclusion of this season. Jerry won't sell the team so we are screwed regardless.
April 25, 20232 yr Look, the 2010's weren't the Sox's decade. And the 2020's aren't looking too good, either. But if we continue to place our trust and confidence in Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn, they're going to be right on track for dominating the AL Central come the 2030's!
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, hogan873 said: True enough that Hahn has not done a great job putting together a winning team. But what we're seeing now is a team full of guys who don't care and are not interesting in trying. I'm sick and tired of seeing the lackluster approaches at the plate, the bad inning after bad inning from the starting pitchers, the inability to throw strikes from the bullpen, and the overall lack of interest in getting better. It's nearing time to clean house, both in the front office and in the clubhouse. Gee who woulda thought giving out contract extensions to unproven, young talent would cause them to be lazy & unmotivated.
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: I think the issue is that people made it seem like TLR was the only problem with this team. And that his departure would rid this organization of its woes. This organization has failed from top to bottom and Hahn should be fired at the conclusion of this season. Jerry won't sell the team so we are screwed regardless. You somehow seem to be forgetting about the Menechino thread, the Fire Hahn thread, the criticism of the training staff/injuries, the overrated core, the lack of ability to develop players, etc. TLR was a huge problem and needed to go, but there was plenty of blame going around. I don’t get where all this “people said TLR was the only problem” stuff is coming from.
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, hogan873 said: True enough that Hahn has not done a great job putting together a winning team. But what we're seeing now is a team full of guys who don't care and are not interesting in trying. I'm sick and tired of seeing the lackluster approaches at the plate, the bad inning after bad inning from the starting pitchers, the inability to throw strikes from the bullpen, and the overall lack of interest in getting better. It's nearing time to clean house, both in the front office and in the clubhouse. I 100% think though that the players on the team reflect the same attitude in the front office. The players and front office can all say the right things and identify the problems. But when the front office does not maximize resource they have toward winning, indeed the opposite, the players don't feel any pressure either. When Hahn switched to rebuild, the entire org should have switched full throttle to player dev and scouting. Maybe hahn feels they did, but full throttle for career sox employees is not full throttle for other orgs. Hahn is capable of catching up to where other teams were 5 years ago, and then he rests on his laurels that they did so much. He'll never do enough because he's lazy and entitled.
April 25, 20232 yr A few years back Denis Savard was the coach of the Black Hawks. Two games into the season the Hawks FO saw he was a disaster and fired him. They didn't wait for the season to go down the drain. Change for the Sox needs to happen now. But that would mean people would have to admit they made mistakes. They also would have to show they care some. Waiting for some winning streak doesn't cut it. But doing something truly decisive doesn't appear to be on the horizon. So, the organization has little if any credibility.
April 25, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: I think the issue is that people made it seem like TLR was the only problem with this team. And that his departure would rid this organization of its woes. This organization has failed from top to bottom and Hahn should be fired at the conclusion of this season. Jerry won't sell the team so we are screwed regardless. This. These players were never that good. Roberts was injury prone in the minors. Moncada was not deserving of his status the moment he got up and we all knew it. Giolito had a nice run. Kopech has always been a thrower and not a pitcher. Jimenez was injury prone the minute he got up here. I’m not convinced Cease isn’t a one year wonder. This is all Hahn. The fans wanted him to be the Sox’ Theo. But you can’t let the captain who ran the ship into the iceberg be in charge of the rescue boats. He needed to be fired in 2015 or 2016.
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Snopek said: You somehow seem to be forgetting about the Menechino thread, the Fire Hahn thread, the criticism of the training staff/injuries, the overrated core, the lack of ability to develop players, etc. TLR was a huge problem and needed to go, but there was plenty of blame going around. I don’t get where all this “people said TLR was the only problem” stuff is coming from. I think the point is that these players Hahn acquired were never as good as advertised or hoped for. I’m not sure that they succeed with another organization.
April 25, 20232 yr 54 minutes ago, Highland said: A few years back Denis Savard was the coach of the Black Hawks. Two games into the season the Hawks FO saw he was a disaster and fired him. They didn't wait for the season to go down the drain. Change for the Sox needs to happen now. But that would mean people would have to admit they made mistakes. They also would have to show they care some. Waiting for some winning streak doesn't cut it. But doing something truly decisive doesn't appear to be on the horizon. So, the organization has little if any credibility. Savard was fired in year 3, not game 2. This start sucks ass but come on now, unless Grifol gets arrested, I highly doubt they can him in April
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Snopek said: You somehow seem to be forgetting about the Menechino thread, the Fire Hahn thread, the criticism of the training staff/injuries, the overrated core, the lack of ability to develop players, etc. TLR was a huge problem and needed to go, but there was plenty of blame going around. I don’t get where all this “people said TLR was the only problem” stuff is coming from. TLR was a bad hire and a problem. However, his every single in game decision no matter how small was criticized beyond belief last year. There were entire threads dedicated to archiving his every in game move and then a bunch of piling on by posters. There was a faction of posters around here who placed 100% of the blame last year on Tony. That was the narrative the Chicago sports media was running with all offseason as well, that Tony was the problem and that a new manager and coaching staff would get this team back on track. . Most of the biggest TLR haters have gone awol now that their favorite punching bag is gone, however. 10 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: This. These players were never that good. Roberts was injury prone in the minors. Moncada was not deserving of his status the moment he got up and we all knew it. Giolito had a nice run. Kopech has always been a thrower and not a pitcher. Jimenez was injury prone the minute he got up here. I’m not convinced Cease isn’t a one year wonder. This is all Hahn. The fans wanted him to be the Sox’ Theo. But you can’t let the captain who ran the ship into the iceberg be in charge of the rescue boats. He needed to be fired in 2015 or 2016. You nailed it. The players assembled for this team are just not that good. There isn't a manager in the history of the game who could have won anything significant with the "core" assembled by Hahn. Rick Hahn has been in over his head as general manager of the White Sox since his first day on the job.
April 25, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Bad Hombre said: Gee who woulda thought giving out contract extensions to unproven, young talent would cause them to be lazy & unmotivated. Funny, Atlanta did the same thing, yet they don't have nearly the degree of terrible effort, results and indifference. Perhaps its more the organization itself?
April 25, 20232 yr 9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Savard was fired in year 3, not game 2. This start sucks ass but come on now, unless Grifol gets arrested, I highly doubt they can him in April Sorry got my history wrong, but I don't follow the Hawks anymore. Stopped a long time ago because of Wirtz. Of course, they won't can Grifol in April. I don't expect anything much to happen. But I was trying to make a point. Sometimes an organization can't wait for disaster to happen. If they sit on their hands too long, they are in denial. About many things. And that won't just mean bad things for this season.
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