Fire Rick Hahn

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

We had multiple 5+ game win streaks that year and a 10-1 stretch that basically made the playoffs for them.

Sorry that was a typo on my part it should have been the 2022 season.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:09 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

He can sit up there and do nothing because he's making $$$$$$$$$$.

Yes he is making money and we all hear and assume he doesn't give a s%*#. However if Jerry is so alert at 87 years old as so many claim, as well as the fact we know Jerry has a huge ego, then I would think at some point, Jerry would get mad and be embarrassed that his team really does suck. 

Think about it...he made the recent comments he couldn't believe how dumb many of these owners are and how they ever could have made money to buy a baseball team. In my opinion, if he thinks his fellow owners as much dumber than him, than at some point that has to piss him off...because these so called dumber owners, are kicking his ass and embarrassing him badly.

The fact is, if that doesn't piss Jerry off...then maybe he isn't so mentally alert and maybe is suffering dementia at 87 yrs old. Just maybe Jerry isn't as mentally alert as some claim.

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yes he is making money and we all hear and assume he doesn't give a s%*#. However if Jerry is so alert at 87 years old as so many claim, as well as the fact we know Jerry has a huge ego, then I would think at some point, Jerry would get mad and be embarrassed that his team really does suck. 

Think about it...he made the recent comments he couldn't believe how dumb many of these owners are and how they ever could have made money to buy a baseball team. In my opinion, if he thinks his fellow owners as much dumber than him, than at some point that has to piss him off...because these so called dumber owners, are kicking his ass and embarrassing him badly.

The fact is, if that doesn't piss Jerry off...then maybe he isn't so mentally alert and maybe is suffering dementia at 87 yrs old. Just maybe Jerry isn't as mentally alert as some claim.

Or that he is perfectly alert and “with it” and just doesn’t care about winning.

[Chisoxmb35]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Or that he is perfectly alert and “with it” and just doesn’t care about winning.

Ding ding ding. It was not winning he was referring to when he called other owners "stupid", it was money. Lack of winning doesn't anger or embarrass Jerry, making less money than the previous year does. The weird thing is though, in all his "wisdom", he still hasn't figured out what other "stupid" owners have, that consistentl, sustained winning CREATES capital. He's either too risk averse or too "stupid" to understand that. 

[Lip Man 1]

13 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

Ding ding ding. It was not winning he was referring to when he called other owners "stupid", it was money. Lack of winning doesn't anger or embarrass Jerry, making less money than the previous year does. The weird thing is though, in all his "wisdom", he still hasn't figured out what other "stupid" owners have, that consistentl, sustained winning CREATES capital. He's either too risk averse or too "stupid" to understand that. 

He isn't stupid at all.

He feels that winning is important as long as it is done HIS WAY, with his ideas and his beliefs as far as what is acceptable. His ego doesn't allow him to admit mistakes very often and he continues he feel (based on his recent comments) that the salary structure, the MLBPA, certain agents are still out of line in his world.

History shows his way hasn't worked very well but that doesn't impact him. He is making money and as long as that continues he feels there is no reason to change his ways nor to hold folks accountable. 

[The Kids Can Play]

33 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Or that he is perfectly alert and “with it” and just doesn’t care about winning.

Granted that's always a possibility. There is a part of me that accepts that.

However there is the more logical part of me that knows Jerry is extremely arrogant and egotistical, especially knowing he thinks several of these owners are in his mind, dumb and beneath his intelligence! That makes me think he would somehow be pissed off, in the fact these dumb owners actually have better teams than his and are clearly embarrassing him as an owner. 

[Sleepy Harold]

 

I'd like to believe that this is Rick Hahn's fault too.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

I'd like to believe that this is Rick Hahn's fault too.

it is.

[reiks12]

Just taking this from the hitting thread i made because it belongs here too:
 

Quote

 

CHW Ranks:

Launch Angle: 30/30

Barrel%: 22/30

HardHit%: 23/30

BB%: 30/30

OSwing%: 30/30

 

Your 2023 offense everyone.

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

He isn't stupid at all.

He feels that winning is important as long as it is done HIS WAY, with his ideas and his beliefs as far as what is acceptable. His ego doesn't allow him to admit mistakes very often and he continues he feel (based on his recent comments) that the salary structure, the MLBPA, certain agents are still out of line in his world.

History shows his way hasn't worked very well but that doesn't impact him. He is making money and as long as that continues he feels there is no reason to change his ways nor to hold folks accountable. 

Sustained winning costs too much for him. Just shop the clearance rack. Once  in a while you might hit it big.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Superstar Lamar]

4 hours ago, JoeC said:

Or that he is perfectly alert and “with it” and just doesn’t care about winning.

He's only not winning if you use team wins and losses as a metric.  I think he and his partners believe they are winning

[South Side Hit Men]

36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Sustained winning costs too much for him. Just shop the clearance rack. Once  in a while you might hit it big.

To be far, Jerry did spend competitively for several years after the World Series (5th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 9th, 7th, 12th) with the large upturn in revenue (tickets, concessions, parking, TV advertisements). Kenny did a decent job the first few years, and then it bottomed out when they couldn't draft and develop players, and nobody was buying Kenny's shitty prospects anymore.

They dropped to mid pack in the Hahn faux trying years (11th, 23rd, 15th, 16th), then tanked (23rd, 29th, 26th, 17th) before bringing in Tony and going up to mid pack (15th, 7th, 13th). They have few prospects over the next few years, so beyond significant improvements in scouting and player development, and dumping what you have for solid future prospects, the future looks bleak until Jerry is gone, and a new owner can bring in a front office capable of a rebuild and sustained success.

Sox fans will support a solid team and effort. There has only been one team since 2008 that has fit the bill.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Granted that's always a possibility. There is a part of me that accepts that.

However there is the more logical part of me that knows Jerry is extremely arrogant and egotistical, especially knowing he thinks several of these owners are in his mind, dumb and beneath his intelligence! That makes me think he would somehow be pissed off, in the fact these dumb owners actually have better teams than his and are clearly embarrassing him as an owner. 

See owners of the Phillies, Padres and Rangers, for recent examples. 

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, JoeC said:

Or that he is perfectly alert and “with it” and just doesn’t care about winning.

Winning what? His investment? He's winning for himself and all of his partners. 

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Granted that's always a possibility. There is a part of me that accepts that.

However there is the more logical part of me that knows Jerry is extremely arrogant and egotistical, especially knowing he thinks several of these owners are in his mind, dumb and beneath his intelligence! That makes me think he would somehow be pissed off, in the fact these dumb owners actually have better teams than his and are clearly embarrassing him as an owner. 

There is a big assumption in your argument. You are assuming he's competing on the standings printed on the sports page. What if he's competing on the standings printed on the business page? He thinks they are dumb for spending so much money and not just maximizing profits and equity. 

[caulfield12]

31 minutes ago, Texsox said:

There is a big assumption in your argument. You are assuming he's competing on the standings printed on the sports page. What if he's competing on the standings printed on the business page? He thinks they are dumb for spending so much money and not just maximizing profits and equity. 

The problem with that argument is that they've gone from Forbes 8th most highly valued franchise in 2006 to mid teens.

So they're not even winning on that metric.

That said, a riding tide floats all boats and that's certainly the case with the White Sox running on the coattails of those Top 10-12 franchises over the last 18 years or so.

Edited June 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Winning what? His investment? He's winning for himself and all of his partners. 

Meant "winning" as an average fan would expect... standings.

[Texsox]

31 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Meant "winning" as an average fan would expect... standings.

Exactly. I was just pointing out he, and his co investors, might have much different priorities. 

[South Side Hit Men]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:21 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

The Oakland A's, a team intentionally trying to lose, are currently in a five game winning streak.

They will eclipse the White Sox' longest 2023 win streak if they beat Tampa Bay at home tomorrow.

Fire Rick Hahn.

The Oakland A's now have a six game win streak, fielding a AAA team, beating Tampa Bay (48-20) tonight, sweeping the former first place Brewers in Milwaukee (34-29) last weekend, and winning their final two in Pittsburgh (32-27).

The Sox have twelve wins against teams with a winning record after 67 games.

Fire Rick Hahn.

April (5): 2 at Houston (2-1); 8 at Pittsburgh (5-2); 10 at Minnesota (6-3); 15 vs. Baltimore (8-6); 30 vs. Tampa Bay (23-5).

May (4): 2 vs. Minnesota (17-12); 3 vs. Minnesota (17-13); 13 vs. Houston (20-18); 31 vs. Los Angeles A. L. (29-26).

June (3): 6 at New York A. L. (36-25); 8 at New York A. L. (36-26); 9 vs. Miami (35-28).

[The Kids Can Play]

14 hours ago, Texsox said:

There is a big assumption in your argument. You are assuming he's competing on the standings printed on the sports page. What if he's competing on the standings printed on the business page? He thinks they are dumb for spending so much money and not just maximizing profits and equity. 

We will have to agree to disagree because if an owner buys a team, they buy it not only to make money, but to hopefully someday win a championship. Case in point, I will document this fact:

Jerry told Peter Gammons of ESPN in 2000 the following:

"Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he would have traded away all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. I don't know if he really would, but everyone who works here knows this: that he wants most in his professional life is to win the World Series."

Then at the 2005 Sox World Series parade and ceremony Jerry said this:

Reinsdorf chocked up, hugged Konerko, then turned away. Later, Reinsdorf told the audience that after 25 years of team ownership, the celebration made everything worthwhile. "I never imagined it could be so good," "But this is absolutely the most fantastic day of my life." Receiving the last out ball, he said, was "the most emotional moment of my life." 

Having said that, let's forget about 2023 demented and uncaring Jerry that only cares about making money. Let's use your reference to using the business end and profit and total revenue standings and see who is laughing at who. 

2022 MLB Rankings -          Total Revenue            
            Teams                      Annual Revenue
1    Los Angeles Dodgers     $565 million
2    New York Yankees          $482 million
3    Boston Red Sox               $479 million
4    Atlanta Braves                 $443 million
5    Chicago Cubs                   $425 million
6    Houston Astros               $388 million
7    Texas Rangers                 $387 million
8    San Francisco Giants      $384 million
9    Los Angeles Angels         $331 million
10    Philadelphia Phillies     $323 million
11    Washington Nationals $322 million
12    Seattle Mariners           $313 million
13    New York Mets              $302 million
14    St Louis Cardinals         $287 million
15    San Diego Padres         $282 million
16    Colorado Rockies         $270 million
17    Milwaukee Brewers     $269 million
18    Minnesota Twins          $268 million
19    Detroit Tigers                $268 million
20    Cleveland Guardians   $267 million
21    Arizona DBacks            $267 million
22    Cincinnati Reds            $266 million
23    Kansas City Royals       $263 million
24    Chicago White Sox     $258 million
25    Pittsburgh Pirates        $258 million
26    Tampa Bay Rays           $252 million
27    Baltimore Orioles        $251 million
28    Toronto Blue Jays        $238 million
29    Oakland Athletics        $208 million
30    Miami Marlins              $240 million

2022 - MLB Rankings - Total Team Evaluation
              Teams                     Team Value
1    New York Yankees        $6.0 billion
2    Los Angeles Dodgers    $4.07 billion
3    Boston Red Sox             $3.9 billion
4    Chicago Cubs                 $3.8 billion
5    San Francisco Giants    $3.5 billion
6    New York Mets              $2.65 billion
7    St Louis Cardinals         $2.45 billion
8    Philadelphia Phillies     $2.3 billion
9    Los Angeles Angels      $2.2 billion
10    Atlanta Braves            $2.1 billion
11    Texas Rangers            $2.05 billion
12    Washington Nats       $2.0 billion
13    Houston Astros          $1.98 billion
14    Toronto Blue Jays      $1.78 billion
15    Chicago White Sox  $1.76 billion
16    Seattle Mariners        $1.7 billion
17    San Diego Padres      $1.57 billion
18    Detroit Tigers              $1.4 billion
19    Minnesota Twins        $1.39 billion
20    Arizona DBacks          $1.38 billion
21    Colorado Rockies       $1.38 billion
22    Baltimore Orioles       $1.37 billion
23    Pittsburgh Pirates      $1.32 billion
24    Cleveland Guardians  $1.3 billion
25    Milwaukee Brewers    $1.28 billion
26    Cincinnati Reds           $1.19 billion
27    Oakland Athletics       $1.18 billion
28    Kansas City Royals      $1.11 billion
29    Tampa Bay Rays          $1.1 billion
30    Miami Marlins              $0.99 billion  

So looking at the financial side of baseball ownership, Jerry has no right laughing at any of these so called dumber owners beneath him, when he is 26th in total revenue, which is really bad for the 3rd largest city and market in the US. 

If Jerry is content with being so inferior to these other owners ,then don't even tell me this man is dealing with the same normal cognitive skills that he had 20-25 years ago when he did give a sh*t! 

Since Jerry is supposedly having his family sell the team when he dies, wouldn't it make sense to maybe let his son Michael run it. Maybe he could build the value better, so when it is sold they can get more for the sale? Michael sure couldn't do a worse job than his father.

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

We will have to agree to disagree because if an owner buys a team, they buy it not only to make money, but to hopefully someday win a championship. Case in point, I will document this fact:

Jerry told Peter Gammons of ESPN in 2000 the following:

"Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he would have traded away all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. I don't know if he really would, but everyone who works here knows this: that he wants most in his professional life is to win the World Series."

Then at the 2005 Sox World Series parade and ceremony Jerry said this:

Reinsdorf chocked up, hugged Konerko, then turned away. Later, Reinsdorf told the audience that after 25 years of team ownership, the celebration made everything worthwhile. "I never imagined it could be so good," "But this is absolutely the most fantastic day of my life." Receiving the last out ball, he said, was "the most emotional moment of my life." 

Having said that, let's forget about 2023 demented and uncaring Jerry that only cares about making money. Let's use your reference to using the business end and profit and total revenue standings and see who is laughing at who. 

2022 MLB Rankings -          Total Revenue            
            Teams                      Annual Revenue
1    Los Angeles Dodgers     $565 million
2    New York Yankees          $482 million
3    Boston Red Sox               $479 million
4    Atlanta Braves                 $443 million
5    Chicago Cubs                   $425 million
6    Houston Astros               $388 million
7    Texas Rangers                 $387 million
8    San Francisco Giants      $384 million
9    Los Angeles Angels         $331 million
10    Philadelphia Phillies     $323 million
11    Washington Nationals $322 million
12    Seattle Mariners           $313 million
13    New York Mets              $302 million
14    St Louis Cardinals         $287 million
15    San Diego Padres         $282 million
16    Colorado Rockies         $270 million
17    Milwaukee Brewers     $269 million
18    Minnesota Twins          $268 million
19    Detroit Tigers                $268 million
20    Cleveland Guardians   $267 million
21    Arizona DBacks            $267 million
22    Cincinnati Reds            $266 million
23    Kansas City Royals       $263 million
24    Chicago White Sox     $258 million
25    Pittsburgh Pirates        $258 million
26    Tampa Bay Rays           $252 million
27    Baltimore Orioles        $251 million
28    Toronto Blue Jays        $238 million
29    Oakland Athletics        $208 million
30    Miami Marlins              $240 million

2022 - MLB Rankings - Total Team Evaluation
              Teams                     Team Value
1    New York Yankees        $6.0 billion
2    Los Angeles Dodgers    $4.07 billion
3    Boston Red Sox             $3.9 billion
4    Chicago Cubs                 $3.8 billion
5    San Francisco Giants    $3.5 billion
6    New York Mets              $2.65 billion
7    St Louis Cardinals         $2.45 billion
8    Philadelphia Phillies     $2.3 billion
9    Los Angeles Angels      $2.2 billion
10    Atlanta Braves            $2.1 billion
11    Texas Rangers            $2.05 billion
12    Washington Nats       $2.0 billion
13    Houston Astros          $1.98 billion
14    Toronto Blue Jays      $1.78 billion
15    Chicago White Sox  $1.76 billion
16    Seattle Mariners        $1.7 billion
17    San Diego Padres      $1.57 billion
18    Detroit Tigers              $1.4 billion
19    Minnesota Twins        $1.39 billion
20    Arizona DBacks          $1.38 billion
21    Colorado Rockies       $1.38 billion
22    Baltimore Orioles       $1.37 billion
23    Pittsburgh Pirates      $1.32 billion
24    Cleveland Guardians  $1.3 billion
25    Milwaukee Brewers    $1.28 billion
26    Cincinnati Reds           $1.19 billion
27    Oakland Athletics       $1.18 billion
28    Kansas City Royals      $1.11 billion
29    Tampa Bay Rays          $1.1 billion
30    Miami Marlins              $0.99 billion  

So looking at the financial side of baseball ownership, Jerry has no right laughing at any of these so called dumber owners beneath him, when he is 26th in total revenue, which is really bad for the 3rd largest city and market in the US. 

If Jerry is content with being so inferior to these other owners ,then don't even tell me this man is dealing with the same normal cognitive skills that he had 20-25 years ago when he did give a sh*t! 

Since Jerry is supposedly having his family sell the team when he dies, wouldn't it make sense to maybe let his son Michael run it. Maybe he could build the value better, so when it is sold they can get more for the sale? Michael sure couldn't do a worse job than his father.

 

 

With Michael running the Bulls (and not doing a great job) he may have no interest in the White Sox situation.

[The Kids Can Play]

54 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

With Michael running the Bulls (and not doing a great job) he may have no interest in the White Sox situation.

I beg to differ! First of all, Michael has done a great job with the Bulls and a massive improvement over what his dad left him. I think he would love the challenge of turning around the Sox, just like he did with the Bulls when he took over for his dad.

The fact is Michael made the Bulls much better since his dad ran it. Is it as good as we hoped? Of course not, but it's a hell of a lot better and heading in a much better forward direction than when those two loser clowns Pax/Gar ran it.

Additionally Michael not only cleaned house but went to the outside to find a successful winning GM in Arturas Karnisovas to run the Bulls. As you and others may or may not know, Arturas was the former GM of Denver. He is the mastermind behind the draft choices of Denver's top 5 scorers for this past season on the Nuggets, which includes 2 time MVP and NBA Finals MVP Nikola Jokic. Arturas has only been here a few years, but when given enough time, if he can do for the Bulls what he did for Denver, I think all Bulls' fans would be ecstatic. Hence why Michael has done a good job in hiring Arturas. 

Most importantly, Michael did something we have all been wishing and screaming for on SoxTalk with this dysfunctional Sox team. He fired the losers in the front office of the Bulls organization and went to the outside. I would think if Dad let him have the Sox team, I think it's safe to say, based on what he did when he took over the Bulls, and do the same thing and fire the losers Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn instantly. Then like he did with Arturas, he would go to the outside and find some successful executive from a winning baseball organization to run his Sox team.

[SonofaRoache]

We have 3 years of data now. These dudes ain't it. A bunch if talent but can't stay healthy or perform when healthy. This team has zero shot at a WS. You can't even squint your eyes and see it. Fire Hahn. 

[Texsox]

@TheKidsCanPlay

It's all a guess. But if owners buy teams to win championships why did he buy the Bulls if. . .

Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he would have traded away all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. 

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I beg to differ! First of all, Michael has done a great job with the Bulls and a massive improvement over what his dad left him. I think he would love the challenge of turning around the Sox, just like he did with the Bulls when he took over for his dad.

The fact is Michael made the Bulls much better since his dad ran it. Is it as good as we hoped? Of course not, but it's a hell of a lot better and heading in a much better forward direction than when those two loser clowns Pax/Gar ran it.

Additionally Michael not only cleaned house but went to the outside to find a successful winning GM in Arturas Karnisovas to run the Bulls. As you and others may or may not know, Arturas was the former GM of Denver. He is the mastermind behind the draft choices of Denver's top 5 scorers for this past season on the Nuggets, which includes 2 time MVP and NBA Finals MVP Nikola Jokic. Arturas has only been here a few years, but when given enough time, if he can do for the Bulls what he did for Denver, I think all Bulls' fans would be ecstatic. Hence why Michael has done a good job in hiring Arturas. 

Most importantly, Michael did something we have all been wishing and screaming for on SoxTalk with this dysfunctional Sox team. He fired the losers in the front office of the Bulls organization and went to the outside. I would think if Dad let him have the Sox team, I think it's safe to say, based on what he did when he took over the Bulls, and do the same thing and fire the losers Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn instantly. Then like he did with Arturas, he would go to the outside and find some successful executive from a winning baseball organization to run his Sox team.

KW will definitely be allowed the dignity of walking out on his own terms at the conclusion of this year, at least from all indications.