1 minute ago, chw42 said:

Tony is a players' manager. I think that plus the fact that he's almost 80 means that he didn't have the energy to tell his players to wake the f*** up, cause he himself was having trouble staying awake. So the players policed themselves and even though they respect Tony, they didn't respect him enough to fear him. 

Makes me love Cairo even more than I already did. I know he may not be the long term solution, but for now, he may be the only reason this season got saved and allow this team to make a serious final run at the division title. 

 

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I think we totally disagree on this issue and guess what, America, life goes on for both of us. I learned something reading his post and hopefully he gained something from mine. Disagreeing is OK. I can respond more to your post if you want but I think it's best to just say we agree to disagree yet had a nice discussion bout it. I do want to say I'm not in favor of TLR coming back to the team. And I love the recent hot streak with Miguel.

I agree we can agree to disagree. We do however agree that Tony does not deserve to come back to this team and Cairo needs to finish this season. 

23 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm glad Liam said it and you're right that totally gives this story more creditability coming from Liam. He is probably one of the few players on this team to have the balls to say it and have no fear he said he said it. I love that that about Liam and probably why he is such a perfect person to be our closer with that type of toughness and grit.

The fact that Hendriks had to say that things wouldn't go back to the way they were even if Tony comes back isn't a good thing.  It means they have to worry about him losing the team again. 

And again through all of this, not a single senior White Sox official has been willing to speak up on behalf of Tony.

The tenure of Tony LaRussa has been a full worst case scenario. 

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The fact that Hendriks had to say that things wouldn't go back to the way they were even if Tony comes back isn't a good thing.  It means they have to worry about him losing the team again. 

And again through all of this, not a single senior White Sox official has been willing to speak up on behalf of Tony.

The tenure of Tony LaRussa has been a full worst case scenario. 

It’s been an unmitigated disaster on just about every possible front, yet there is still a question as to whether he will return.  Again, they had the perfect out from the mess of their own making and here we are wondering whether they have the stones to make the right decision going forward.  The more he is around the team the more that question will linger in everyone’s minds when it could have been cut and dry with a healthy finality. 

1 hour ago, wegner said:

It's also a bit of a crock of crap....their destiny has been in their hands for months.  Easy part of the schedule...they play .500 just like the rest of the season.  I'm not excusing LaRussa but for crying out loud there are enough veterans on this team that they should have realized long ago that this team had no fight.

I think most did realize the team was sleepwalking, but the manager never did anything about it, and his staff can’t usurp his authority.

My point was the statement was more indicting coming publicly from Liam than just about anyone save Jose, who has never openly criticized publicly anything White Sox in the past, including the first six teams he played on.

 

48 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I think most did realize the team was sleepwalking, but the manager never did anything about it, and his staff can’t usurp his authority.

My point was the statement was more indicting coming publicly from Liam than just about anyone save Jose, who has never openly criticized publicly anything White Sox in the past, including the first six teams he played on.

 

I didn't mean to be critical of you of course.  It is just frustrating that they did not play with fire earlier.

I guess I understand that the staff cannot usurp the manager but I sure do wonder what the hell the bench coach does.

Today on PTI from Michael Wilbon; "if Terry Francona was managing the White Sox, they'd be 20 games over .500. The White Sox are the most under achieving team of the season". What made it noteworthy to me was the segment had nothing to do with us. It was showing Francona and the Angels manager being thrown out on the same play. He clearly wanted to vent on LaRussa. 

9 minutes ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

Today on PTI from Michael Wilbon; "if Terry Francona was managing the White Sox, they'd be 20 games over .500. The White Sox are the most under achieving team of the season". What made it noteworthy to me was the segment had nothing to do with us. It was showing Francona and the Angels manager being thrown out on the same play. He clearly wanted to vent on LaRussa. 

I agree with Chicago guy  Wilbon.  Francona is an excellent manager and TLR has been an unmitigated disaster.

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The fact that Hendriks had to say that things wouldn't go back to the way they were even if Tony comes back isn't a good thing.  It means they have to worry about him losing the team again. 

And again through all of this, not a single senior White Sox official has been willing to speak up on behalf of Tony.

The tenure of Tony LaRussa has been a full worst case scenario. 

It's pretty clear from a truckload of circumstantial evidence Hahn did not want TLR. What Kenny's position was/is I have no idea. I was told by a member of the mainstream media that he very strangely hasn't been seen around the ballpark much this year, he's keeping a low profile which for him is unheard of.

Maybe that's his way of letting his feelings be known.

But the point is what does anybody expect anyone in the front office to do under the circumstances.

I'd love for Kenny/Hahn to come out and roast the decision but they aren't going to sacrifice well paid positions and job security for principal.  (Which I guess says something about them too when you think about it...)

Ultimately it comes back to what an earlier poster said; JR does not value what a real manager brings to the table. Hiring people like Bevington, Ventura, and others with no managerial experience is par for the course. He figured any idiot could pilot this loaded roster (in his mind it's loaded because it's the highest payroll he's ever paid). So he decided to correct his "biggest professional mistake" and hire TLR and then plan the parade. This year's failure will be blamed on injuries and Tony will be back because he's Jerry's buddy and that's how he rolls. Jerry thinks he's a genius because of all the Bulls championships. If Portland didn't totally f up and actually draft Michael #2, the Bulls would have never won anything. 

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

It's pretty clear from a truckload of circumstantial evidence Hahn did not want TLR. What Kenny's position was/is I have no idea. I was told by a member of the mainstream media that he very strangely hasn't been seen around the ballpark much this year, he's keeping a low profile which for him is unheard of.

Maybe that's his way of letting his feelings be known.

But the point is what does anybody expect anyone in the front office to do under the circumstances.

I'd love for Kenny/Hahn to come out and roast the decision but they aren't going to sacrifice well paid positions and job security for principal.  (Which I guess says something about them too when you think about it...)

Is Kenny the Most Overpaid Person in the United States?

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

It's pretty clear from a truckload of circumstantial evidence Hahn did not want TLR. What Kenny's position was/is I have no idea. I was told by a member of the mainstream media that he very strangely hasn't been seen around the ballpark much this year, he's keeping a low profile which for him is unheard of.

Maybe that's his way of letting his feelings be known.

But the point is what does anybody expect anyone in the front office to do under the circumstances.

I'd love for Kenny/Hahn to come out and roast the decision but they aren't going to sacrifice well paid positions and job security for principal.  (Which I guess says something about them too when you think about it...)

Kenny has already said this contract is his last.  

And not saying anything is very loudly saying everything. 

Ken bringing the heat today! 

"But Tony, it’s more obvious every day: Cairo is doing a better job. Yes, the team finally is getting healthier, the offense finally is hitting with power, the players finally are responding to the urgency of their situation, three games out in the weak AL Central with 20 to play. Maybe all that would have happened if you were still the manager. But Cairo is bringing energy. Communicating with players. Holding them accountable. All things maybe you thought you were doing. But evidently, weren’t doing well enough."

 

"Your relationship with coaches was another issue. Most staffs today are highly collaborative. Your style is far more autonomous. Some coaches were OK with that, I’m told. Others were not. Your emphasis on hits and contact ran counter to the hitting coaches’ goals for achieving power through patience. Cairo cited his respect for you in explaining why he refrained from calling out the team sooner; clearly, he did not feel empowered to take a stand."

 

5 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Wow have we been blaming the wrong guy this whole time?

Not just that, but the level to which the rest the rest of the staff seemed neutered, completely unable to influence or counteract the manager's horrible influence.

split into new thread.

2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

I was just going to mention this. It's the old drunk who wants contact, not Menechino

He also mentions La Russa has a ton of power (not surprising) with the organization and a lot of coaches don't appreciate not having any say in really anything

Menechino's reputation as a guy who preaches average over power is very clear though. However, he was also the hitting coach before Tony was manager and the team hit for power in 2020. 

We have a few national guys calling a spade a spade, and local guys really giving Cairo the spotlight for the recent turnaround.  The writing is plain to see, but does JR double down in his my way or the highway intransigence or does he finally see the light?

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

Menechino's reputation as a guy who preaches average over power is very clear though. However, he was also the hitting coach before Tony was manager and the team hit for power in 2020. 

It is worth pointing out and stressing that this approach may well have been a dynamite one when baseball was using the Happy Fun Ball, as making contact with that ball seems to have been like hitting in Coors Field. 

Haven’t seen this posted here.

 

 

On 9/14/2022 at 1:44 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Haven’t seen this posted here.

 

 

Hmm, he actually said a little there.  Which, run through the Hahn-speak translator, means he said a lot.

Some very interesting comments along these lines in DVS story today at the Sun-Times:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2022/9/15/23355103/tony-la-russa-doesnt-travel-with-white-sox

25 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Some very interesting comments along these lines in DVS story today at the Sun-Times:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2022/9/15/23355103/tony-la-russa-doesnt-travel-with-white-sox

 

As much as I love dumping on Tony. Be a fucking adult professional and play the game. If you need a fucking kick in the ass by a manager retire and work a real job. If people need that level of handholding they would never start a business. 

How many people here can't do their jobs on their own? 

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

As much as I love dumping on Tony. Be a fucking adult professional and play the game. If you need a fucking kick in the ass by a manager retire and work a real job. If people need that level of handholding they would never start a business. 

How many people here can't do their jobs on their own? 

The same could be said for Tony, if you can't motivate your team, or make rational strategic and lineup decisions, you need to retire and let someone else do the job. 

Tony started a business, the Animal Shelter, and it's a mess because Tony is failing at managing it as well.

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

As much as I love dumping on Tony. Be a fucking adult professional and play the game. If you need a fucking kick in the ass by a manager retire and work a real job. If people need that level of handholding they would never start a business. 

How many people here can't do their jobs on their own? 

Strong disagreement here. Leadership matters.  Especially when you have to grind through a tough slog. I think that applies in any team-oriented job.