1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

Don't kill the messenger.

So we can expect a higher FIP next year. Great.  He had a ton of strikeouts in 2022, but he also sucked. There was one game he was only a pitch or two from an immaculate inning, and he wound up getting pulled  4 or 5 batter later. 
 

Way too many uncompetitive pitches. Followed by having to throw meatballs. All season long.

 

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So we can expect a higher FIP next year. Great.  He had a ton of strikeouts in 2022, but he also sucked. There was one game he was only a pitch or two from an immaculate inning, and he wound up getting pulled  4 or 5 batter later. 
 

Way too many uncompetitive pitches. Followed by having to throw meatballs. All season long.

 

He was the king of the hanging curveball on the inner half to righties

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So we can expect a higher FIP next year. Great.  He had a ton of strikeouts in 2022, but he also sucked. There was one game he was only a pitch or two from an immaculate inning, and he wound up getting pulled  4 or 5 batter later. 
 

Way too many uncompetitive pitches. Followed by having to throw meatballs. All season long.

 

I don't really like FIP for relievers and the amount of innings they throw. Joe Kelly missed enough bats that he could certainly be a good reliever next year. He could also be another in the long line of players that have joined the white sox as their last stop before retiring unceremoniously.

Annoying to pay a multi-year deal for with that margin. 1 year deal you live with the variance and hope for the best.

I have loved joe kelly as a reliever most of his career. Seemed completely unafraid in big moments in the playoffs and after the astros, it seemed only Bummer was that for us. But doesn't matter how unfazed you are if you can't get hitters to believe a pitch is coming over the plate.

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Joe Kelly definitely didn’t have a good season but the arm is there and k I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he was a solid backend member of the pen in 23. Overpaid? Ya, sure. But he definitely became one of the TLR scapegoats for the fan base. 

Scapegoat? Tony fucking sucked at all aspects of managing. 

Just now, ShoeLessRob said:

Scapegoat? Tony fucking sucked at all aspects of managing. 

Yes.  I hate Tony with a passion.  He was quite literally as bad as possible.  I am convinced some middle school baseball coach with a decent knowledge of the roster could have done a better job managing the team. Was not meant as defending Tony in the slightest.  

The Sox are at a critical inflection point right now and really need to pick a lane. If Jerry isn’t willing to spend like a serious contender, then there is a legit argument to do a hard retool by selling off all major pieces with two years or less of control.  We could get a ton of near major league talent for the likes of Anderson, Giolito, & Hendriks.  Yes, we’d be mostly punting the 2023 season, but it would help set us up for a new window beginning in 2024 with several core pieces still in place (Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Colas, Cease, Kopech), all the pieces acquired from the trades mentioned above, an influx of talent from the farm (Montgomery, Ramos, lots of pitching), and newfound financial flexibility.

If that’s not possible because Jerry claims he wants to win, then you have to tap into the farm and add a legit difference making LH bat for 2B or OF on top of a Gallo like addition at the other spot.  I don’t have a ton of ideas there, but a guy like Brandon Lowe would help tremendously.  Going half-assed next year would be highly problematic given we’re quickly running out of time with certain core members and Jerry is unwilling to support a competitive payroll without playoff revenue.  As such, push some chips in and give yourself a legit shot at a World Series if all goes right or make some moves that hurt your chances next year but will take advantage of a great seller’s market and help set ourselves up for the future.  It’s really that simple although I fully expect Hahn to half-ass it.

I want to know who the 17% are who aren't upset.

 

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Sox are at a critical inflection point right now and really need to pick a lane. If Jerry isn’t willing to spend like a serious contender, then there is a legit argument to do a hard retool by selling off all major pieces with two years or less of control.  We could get a ton of near major league talent for the likes of Anderson, Giolito, & Hendriks.  Yes, we’d be mostly punting the 2023 season, but it would help set us up for a new window beginning in 2024 with several core pieces still in place (Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Colas, Cease, Kopech), all the pieces acquired from the trades mentioned above, an influx of talent from the farm (Montgomery, Ramos, lots of pitching), and newfound financial flexibility.

If that’s not possible because Jerry claims he wants to win, then you have to tap into the farm and add a legit difference making LH bat for 2B or OF on top of a Gallo like addition at the other spot.  I don’t have a ton of ideas there, but a guy like Brandon Lowe would help tremendously.  Going half-assed next year would be highly problematic given we’re quickly running out of time with certain core members and Jerry is unwilling to support a competitive payroll without playoff revenue.  As such, push some chips in and give yourself a legit shot at a World Series if all goes right or make some moves that hurt your chances next year but will take advantage of a great seller’s market and help set ourselves up for the future.  It’s really that simple although I fully expect Hahn to half-ass it.

How can anyone trust this front office not to completely botch the retool? 

 

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I want to know who the 17% are who aren't upset.

 

I honestly think Hahn doesn’t know what to do. 

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Sox are at a critical inflection point right now and really need to pick a lane. If Jerry isn’t willing to spend like a serious contender, then there is a legit argument to do a hard retool by selling off all major pieces with two years or less of control.  We could get a ton of near major league talent for the likes of Anderson, Giolito, & Hendriks.  Yes, we’d be mostly punting the 2023 season, but it would help set us up for a new window beginning in 2024 with several core pieces still in place (Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Colas, Cease, Kopech), all the pieces acquired from the trades mentioned above, an influx of talent from the farm (Montgomery, Ramos, lots of pitching), and newfound financial flexibility.

If that’s not possible because Jerry claims he wants to win, then you have to tap into the farm and add a legit difference making LH bat for 2B or OF on top of a Gallo like addition at the other spot.  I don’t have a ton of ideas there, but a guy like Brandon Lowe would help tremendously.  Going half-assed next year would be highly problematic given we’re quickly running out of time with certain core members and Jerry is unwilling to support a competitive payroll without playoff revenue.  As such, push some chips in and give yourself a legit shot at a World Series if all goes right or make some moves that hurt your chances next year but will take advantage of a great seller’s market and help set ourselves up for the future.  It’s really that simple although I fully expect Hahn to half-ass it.

I love your thoughts here brother Jerry needs to pick a lane no half measures here ,now i can imagine owning a team is very hard. This is the role Jerry decided to take so he must now either s%*# or get off the pot. sox fans I believe have had enough of his bs. Now for the time being we can support the sox or change teams as others have suggested.do as you may. I say look at the positive ,why root for another team?  Just because they spend money? Rooting for a team is emotional like it or not  so how do you get excitement rooting for the Mets? It is about pride as well so decide do you want to just win or be attached to a team that came up and then won. Remember the Bulls? They didn't win for many years even with the best player in the game ... anyway some food for thought.

39 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I want to know who the 17% are who aren't upset.

 

Probably just NBB and Eloy vs Wall, they seem to be the only 2 people not pissed off 

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

Not sure I agree with the “good sign for the health of baseball” comment. 

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

Convinced the front office doesn’t even use computers.  They just use sheets of notebook paper with handwritten notes that say “trade for Ohtani.”

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

It's becoming my favorite annual tradition. 

16 hours ago, NCsoxfan said:

I honestly think Hahn doesn’t know what to do. 

I mean it doesn't seem like he has many options. 

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

How would he have misjudged the market? The market that they are allowed to play in hasn't taken form yet. Only the teams with serious ownership are playing in this market. The White Sox basically have to wait. They'll add a left fielder once the dust settles and pray for health. I'm not sure what the alternative is. 

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I mean it doesn't seem like he has many options. 

How would he have misjudged the market? The market that they are allowed to play in hasn't taken form yet. Only the teams with serious ownership are playing in this market. The White Sox basically have to wait. They'll add a left fielder once the dust settles and pray for health. I'm not sure what the alternative is. 

That’s all you think we’ll do?  And what kind of left fielder are you expecting?

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s all you think we’ll do?  And what kind of left fielder are you expecting?

Joey Gallo. 

19 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Convinced the front office doesn’t even use computers.  They just use sheets of notebook paper with handwritten notes that say “trade for Ohtani.”

All of their notes would end in question marks though.

13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I mean it doesn't seem like he has many options. 

How would he have misjudged the market? The market that they are allowed to play in hasn't taken form yet. Only the teams with serious ownership are playing in this market. The White Sox basically have to wait. They'll add a left fielder once the dust settles and pray for health. I'm not sure what the alternative is. 

I think they do something at catcher.  There's too much smoke there.  I don't think it's gonna be as big as Murphy or Salvy but I think they're gonna do something.  

10 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I mean it doesn't seem like he has many options. 

How would he have misjudged the market? The market that they are allowed to play in hasn't taken form yet. Only the teams with serious ownership are playing in this market. The White Sox basically have to wait. They'll add a left fielder once the dust settles and pray for health. I'm not sure what the alternative is. 

Making sure ownership and front office are in the same page should be part of his job. If he’s ordered by the owner to do something impossible, like fill in gaps on the trade market without giving up a lot of value, it is his job to tell ownership that it’s impossible and make them understand that. “Teams will not part with players under their control unless we pay a ton” is the reality if the world where players cost this much in free agency and 40% of the league makes The playoffs. If ownership insists it will happen, it is his job to present realistic alternatives.

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s all you think we’ll do?  And what kind of left fielder are you expecting?

What are you expecting? They don't have any money to spend. I think it'll be a Gallo type free agent in LF and Colas in RF. Maybe they add a 2B for cheap. The pitching staff is basically set. What is the alternative here? They should spend money but the owner won't. Because of that, you can improve your weaknesses slightly and take a stab at the division or you can change up the mix by moving guys like TA, Giolito and Hendriks. Doesn't seem like they want to do the latter. I think they'll bank on health, lineup flexibility and guys bouncing back and if that doesn't happen they'll have quite a bit to trade at the trade deadline. 

28 minutes ago, fathom said:

I refuse to believe Hahn misjudged the market once again

No way. 

They knew from Day 1 they weren't going to pay the prices for free agents.

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Making sure ownership and front office are in the same page should be part of his job. If he’s ordered by the owner to do something impossible, like fill in gaps on the trade market without giving up a lot of value, it is his job to tell ownership that it’s impossible and make them understand that. “Teams will not part with players under their control unless we pay a ton” is the reality if the world where players cost this much in free agency and 40% of the league makes The playoffs. If ownership insists it will happen, it is his job to present realistic alternatives.

Come on man. This is just not how it works. Convince Jerry to spend more? No shot. I respect the idealism but this is just not a real world thing. Do you think Ivy League GM's are clamoring for these 11 year signings for aging superstars? Hell no. These are rogue owners deciding that they want to spend money and win. Until Jerry decides to do the same (he won't), this is how it will be. 

Last offseason was botched for sure. The reliever contracts and Leury deal were bad and it might be hamstringing then now. That's on Rick Hahn but he's a middle manager at this point. 

Glad we got rid of Abreu and used all that money we "saved" to get..... no one. But hey we get to watch Vaughn and his defense at 1B next year. That's what counts.