Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

ARe you throwing their stats in a blender ? I'm confused. ABreu won MVP in 2020, Keuchels good year was 2020. Grandals was 2021 since not enough time in 202 for 4-5 WAR Rodon was 2021 . Cease has stepped up to replace the 2021 Rodon year. Kopech or Clevinger or both can replace anything Cease did before he became really good. Lynn can be better than he was in 2022. Giolito can replicate however good he was . Moncada can be a 4 WAR Moncada that he was in 2021.

Eloy has never had a 3 WAR year . You don't think that's possible at DH ?

Luis Robert had a 3.3 WAR in 68 games in 2021. You don't think he can have 5 or 6 playing a full season ?

You asked what the White Sox have lost since 2020 and 2021 that could have dug them a 10 win hole. Jose Abreu and Carlos Rodon do that compared to 2021 on their own, with no steps back from anyone else.

One specific issue - I'm actually skeptical that Robert can have a 5 to 6 WAR year playing a whole season, because in 2022 Luis Robert was a negative defender in CF. No one seems to have noticed because everyone around him was so bad, but his range took a big dropoff since his hip injury. If Luis Robert is a negative defender and he's actually lost a couple steps long term, then no he can't have a 5 to 6 win season because those kind of numbers assume he is a strong defender. He dropped in sprint speed from 21st in MLB in 2020 to 203rd in MLB last year. Can you convince me that Luis Robert is going to regain the speed he lost? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Baron said:

Anyone want to guess what happens if they fail to make the playoffs in 2023? 

They will have a parade of office personnel around the ballpark so Hahn can say I promised you a parade , here it is !

 

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Baron said:

Anyone want to guess what happens if they fail to make the playoffs in 2023? 

They lose Giolito and Lynn to free agency and try to patch up LF, 3 starting pitcher spots, and their bullpen with $8-10 million free agents next offseason and say that they think they can compete right now. Most of the White Sox fan base will insist that this will finally be the year that everything goes right and that they're going to clearly break out with these replacements. Several people will continue to say that Rick Hahn isn't to blame for anything it's on everyone else.

Maybe KW retires. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You asked what the White Sox have lost since 2020 and 2021 that could have dug them a 10 win hole. Jose Abreu and Carlos Rodon do that compared to 2021 on their own, with no steps back from anyone else.

One specific issue - I'm actually skeptical that Robert can have a 5 to 6 WAR year playing a whole season, because in 2022 Luis Robert was a negative defender in CF. No one seems to have noticed because everyone around him was so bad, but his range took a big dropoff since his hip injury. If Luis Robert is a negative defender and he's actually lost a couple steps long term, then no he can't have a 5 to 6 win season because those kind of numbers assume he is a strong defender. He dropped in sprint speed from 21st in MLB in 2020 to 203rd in MLB last year. Can you convince me that Luis Robert is going to regain the speed he lost? 

This is exactly where stats lie.  Tony told them not to hustle, and they didn't.  Their sprint times dropped, and their ranges dropped.  It was right in front of us.  I don't see Pedro doing the same.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You asked what the White Sox have lost since 2020 and 2021 that could have dug them a 10 win hole. Jose Abreu and Carlos Rodon do that compared to 2021 on their own, with no steps back from anyone else.

One specific issue - I'm actually skeptical that Robert can have a 5 to 6 WAR year playing a whole season, because in 2022 Luis Robert was a negative defender in CF. No one seems to have noticed because everyone around him was so bad, but his range took a big dropoff since his hip injury. If Luis Robert is a negative defender and he's actually lost a couple steps long term, then no he can't have a 5 to 6 win season because those kind of numbers assume he is a strong defender. He dropped in sprint speed from 21st in MLB in 2020 to 203rd in MLB last year. Can you convince me that Luis Robert is going to regain the speed he lost? 

I have mentioned Roberts defense in 2022 and his injury that more than likely caused it but there was also his dizzy spells. No idea how long that was actually going on which could have further impaired his defense. I also specifically mentioned that he may be better off in LF. But I haven't ruled out that his defense can be much better than last year in CF if surrounded by much better defenders.

This is why I have continuously brought up James Outman who is 60 across the board as a defender according to scouting reports (run,arm, field) is LH and destroyed AA and AAA pitching last year.

I know others would prefer someone more established but I truly believe he can give you just as much as Bellinger would without the price tag. Might have to wait to see how the Dodgers address their own OF woes but if he's made available he's worth an inquiry. I think he's under ranked because he was a 7th rd pick , 13th  among Dodgers prospects and doesn't have much value in trade simulators all due to being a late bloomer. The Dodgers have developed him much like Will Smith who also credits how the Dodgers told him he had to hit for more power to play in the big leagues and gave him a leg kick. They have worked with Outman to take a very athletic guy who didn't have much of a college career and reworked his swing with tremendous results. He is solidly built, almost Trout like, 6'3" 215.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

You sold me on Outman, ain’t gonna lie

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You asked what the White Sox have lost since 2020 and 2021 that could have dug them a 10 win hole. Jose Abreu and Carlos Rodon do that compared to 2021 on their own, with no steps back from anyone else.

One specific issue - I'm actually skeptical that Robert can have a 5 to 6 WAR year playing a whole season, because in 2022 Luis Robert was a negative defender in CF. No one seems to have noticed because everyone around him was so bad, but his range took a big dropoff since his hip injury. If Luis Robert is a negative defender and he's actually lost a couple steps long term, then no he can't have a 5 to 6 win season because those kind of numbers assume he is a strong defender. He dropped in sprint speed from 21st in MLB in 2020 to 203rd in MLB last year. Can you convince me that Luis Robert is going to regain the speed he lost? 

He had 83 percentile range last year.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He had 83 percentile range last year.

Here are all CFs on Fangraphs, minimum 500 innings, sorted by range. I had to shrink the font to get Robert onto the screen. 

Bah, it seems to downside when I actually post the image. Here's the link. He comes in 26th out of 30. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=500&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=16,d

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

You sold me on Outman, ain’t gonna lie

And I'm certainly not saying he will be a superstar. He K's a lot but also has a good feel for the strike zone and will take walks I'd be happy with 2 fWar apiece from Colas and Outman and even if its less than that we'll still get good defense that will include a decent amount of OF assists, something that the OF last year was incapable of doing . But there's also a shot (not sure how much ,20-25% maybe, that they will do even better offensively.

The OF defense was just disgustingly bad last year and creating  better  OF defense should be a BIG goal this year. It would make our pitchers look a lot better. Nothing pisses pitchers off more than shoddy defense.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Outman stinks. Way too many words used on a guy who stinks. He's 26; he's a filler in a deal, not someone you target.

[DirtySox]

I've read the name "Outman" entirely too often this offseason.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just now, DirtySox said:

I've read the name "Outman" entirely too often this offseason.

He’s a 3rd piece in an Anderson trade or Second in a Hendriks trade for me… too much love here

[4uckOffCommieScum]

According to all reports he’s well above average in fielding/arm/run categories, so not sure how he could be said to suck

[southsider2k5]

 

[T R U]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

I saw something else good the other day. In the last 105 years the White Sox have won 3 playoff series. They all occurred in 2005.

[Leonard Zelig]

27 minutes ago, T R U said:

I saw something else good the other day. In the last 105 years the White Sox have won 3 playoff series. They all occurred in 2005.

That’s good?

[2Deep]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Outman stinks. Way too many words used on a guy who stinks. He's 26; he's a filler in a deal, not someone you target.

This board is in love with a soon to be 26 year old from another organization who has 13 major league AB's and has struck out 415 times in the minors over the past 3 minor league seasons.  How will that translate to the majors?

On top of that, we think we should trade TA for a guy like this.  I understand the TA hate or dislike is at an all time high but some of you need to put the edibles down.

I hate this organization right now like many of you BUT let's stop pretending that all of the players on our current roster suck and should be traded for a guy of OUTMAN's Ilk.   

[2Deep]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is exactly where stats lie.  Tony told them not to hustle, and they didn't.  Their sprint times dropped, and their ranges dropped.  It was right in front of us.  I don't see Pedro doing the same.

We should also take into account that Robert had vision issues last year.  That will affect your range.  

[LittleHurtCG]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is exactly where stats lie.  Tony told them not to hustle, and they didn't.  Their sprint times dropped, and their ranges dropped.  It was right in front of us.  I don't see Pedro doing the same.

Do you have a source on this is exactly where stats lie? 

[bmags]

While I think anytime someone is mentioned a lot it seems to inflate their importance, I think there are things about Outman that are good. His power became a big thing last year, he hit 31 homers. 

I think we will see a number of later breakout prospects the next few years because of this.

James outman came in the league as a 21 year old. Then he had a pretty good year of A ball as 22. that's all normal.

Then all the sudden the next time he plays baseball he's a 24 year old just hitting A+. He's moved up a level mid season each of the last two years.

Some of these unexpected profiles are going to show up because of the extremely rare "no baseball for 1.5 years".

[LittleHurtCG]

11 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

We should also take into account that Robert had vision issues last year.  That will affect your range.  

Isn't Robert worth like 50 million plus? Surely the cat can afford lasik surgery or some designer glasses, no? 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Do you have a source on this is exactly where stats lie? 

Jesus dude, did you pay attention to the Sox at all this year?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2022/6/25/23183261/la-russa-some-players-told-to-slow-it-down-to-avoid-aggravating-injuries-vaughn-abreu-pollock-robert

[Sambuca]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

I've read the name "Outman" entirely too often this offseason.

As Uncle Joey would say, ✂️? ?, man. 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

I saw something else good the other day. In the last 105 years the White Sox have won 3 playoff series. They all occurred in 2005.

This stat annoys me because until 1969, there wasn't even an LCS. We're all aware of the World Series drought, but this is "I am very smart" people trying to present it differently. It's basically ragging on the 50s and 60s White Sox for being worse than Mickey Mantle's Yankees during the regular season. 5 times they finished 2nd in the AL, 5 times they finished 3rd.

That being said, 53 years of playoff failure is also fucking abysmal, and Jerry has been in charge for 41 of those.

[JoeCredeYes]

46 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Isn't Robert worth like 50 million plus? Surely the cat can afford lasik surgery or some designer glasses, no? 

Our Chuck just said on his podcast last week that Robert just bought a $12M home in Miami, hopefully he didn't just go house poor. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by JoeCredeYes
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