Least likeable team since 2000

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, lostfan said:

I mean to be totally fair Yoan was elite in 2019 and we thought he turned a corner in the way that Anderson did the same year. Then he s%*# the bed and started getting injured every 10 games, that's not really overconfident of us, imo

Yeah we kinda did overhype Jimenez, he's an above-average hitter who can't field and who is as durable as toilet paper, Giolito didn't live up to the hype but he's honestly not been that bad. 

Kopech and Robert we were just going off the talent we knew they had and the flashes of brilliance we saw from them but they've both been significantly derailed by injuries, and then being swallowed by the general shittiness of this team. I don't think we were overhyping them though, we were talking about their ceilings as players if they properly developed, which didn't happen (or hasn't yet).

Just have to wait for the Rays to end up with Kopech... 

[LittleHurtCG]

4 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Last year was FAR more unlikeable.

Why? Just because Tony was the manager? 

The team is totally out of contention on May 11th this year. That wasn't the case last year. 

[South Side Hit Men]

2020 was my favorite season of the Hahn era. The team gelled and played great together, there was a joy with that team. I was one of the few here who liked Ricky. He wasn’t the best manager by any means, but he steered the rebuild well, and I believe they could have won a few rounds if they had a third and or fourth starting pitcher.

2019 was my second. Went to the park a dozen ish times, loved the progress of the team, and could see the hope and progress on the horizon.

Was too busy working to follow closely (follow all the games) pre 2019, 2015 was the worst season in terms of douchebaggery and embarrassment, more so off the field than on.

Tony hire was disgusting, Clevinger kept the line moving.

 

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Why? Just because Tony was the manager? 

The team is totally out of contention on May 11th this year. That wasn't the case last year. 

No, although that didn't exactly help.

Last year had higher expectations, an off-putting and unwarranted cockiness, and the same listlessness as this year.

2022 truly felt like a team constantly getting in their own way and not doing a damn thing about it. 2023 just feels like a team that isn't good enough. They're not getting in their own way, they're just a bad team.

[YonderLaroche]

2000 team was likeable and stacked.  Won 95 games Thomas Ordonez Buehrle Foulke Garland Lee Crede Sirotka Baines Singleton Howry Baldwin..  I'd take any one of those games over what we got today 

[JoeC]

It was almost like 2020 happened, and Hahn wasn't ready to flip to "win now" mode.

Or at least he showed his ineptitude in trying to "win now."

[fathom]

16 minutes ago, JoeC said:

It was almost like 2020 happened, and Hahn wasn't ready to flip to "win now" mode.

Or at least he showed his ineptitude in trying to "win now."

Or he just sucks and has always sucked.  Any GM could have acquired marquee prospects with the guys he traded.

[JoeC]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Or he just sucks and has always sucked.  Any GM could have acquired marquee prospects with the guys he traded.

That, but don't forget that the contracts that made those guys such favorable assets were given out by Hahn.

Not saying he doesn't deserve to lose his job over these past few seasons, but he DID do a passable job of assembling talent... just not a team.

Seems like the kind of guy who will perpetually make a fantastic assistant GM but then s%*# the bed as the actual GM.

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, JoeC said:

That, but don't forget that the contracts that made those guys such favorable assets were given out by Hahn.

Not saying he doesn't deserve to lose his job over these past few seasons, but he DID do a passable job of assembling talent... just not a team.

Seems like the kind of guy who will perpetually make a fantastic assistant GM but then s%*# the bed as the actual GM.

Assistant GM's normally should know more about talent evaluation and scouting.  That's apparently not a strength of either Haber or Hahn, who are (supposedly) good at negotiating advantageous contracts but not so much with this second/third wave generation of players like Giolito, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, etc.

(Or JR simply refuses to give ANY pitcher more than three years from now based upon the Danks Experience.)

 

KW and Paddy are the best talent judges in the organization now...along with Shirley.   Not sure about pro/advance scouting, to be honest.

[poppysox]

Very much looking forward to the trades that will end this nightmare of a season.   If new decision makers were doing the deals...it would be worth the pain this season has produced.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

That, but don't forget that the contracts that made those guys such favorable assets were given out by Hahn.

Not saying he doesn't deserve to lose his job over these past few seasons, but he DID do a passable job of assembling talent... just not a team.

Seems like the kind of guy who will perpetually make a fantastic assistant GM but then s%*# the bed as the actual GM.

Harder take on him - if all you had in terms of scouting was the MLB.com top 100 prospect list, which of those rebuild deals would you have not done?

He made a promising strategic call in selling off players when they had to move them, but part of a rebuild is supposed to be developing from your high draft picks and finding good players outside of those couple key trades. The Braves are rolling thanks in part to a 4th round pick in 2020 right now. The Astros won last year based on a bunch of guys who came in as international signings, a guy they picked up cheap from the Dodgers, a couple of former top picks. The White Sox got no help outside of those trades.

[chitownsportsfan]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Harder take on him - if all you had in terms of scouting was the MLB.com top 100 prospect list, which of those rebuild deals would you have not done?

He made a promising strategic call in selling off players when they had to move them, but part of a rebuild is supposed to be developing from your high draft picks and finding good players outside of those couple key trades. The Braves are rolling thanks in part to a 4th round pick in 2020 right now. The Astros won last year based on a bunch of guys who came in as international signings, a guy they picked up cheap from the Dodgers, a couple of former top picks. The White Sox got no help outside of those trades.

Hahn's execution of the initial trades was excellent. The organization as a whole since that move has been awful on every front: scouting, coaching, drafting, asset allocation, trades (and yes) -- fan relations.

 

It was only the initial success of those trades that helped us do the little winning we did. 

[The Beast]

13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

2000 was super fun. 2001 was a hated mess.

David Wells and his bad back say hello.

11 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I liked the 2000 team. How can you not like a team with the following:

                                 HR    RBI     BA    OBP   SLG    OPS
Frank Thomas        43   143   .328   .436   .625   1.061
Maggilo Ordonez   32   126   .315   .371   .546    .917
Carlos Lee               24     92   .301   .345   .484    .829
Herbert Perry         12     61   .308   .356   .483    .839
Jose Valentin           25     92   .273   .343   .491    .835
Ray Durham           17     75    .280   .361   .450    .810
Paul Konerko          21    97    .298   .363   .481    .844

They did go 95-67 and first place in the AL Central. 

I realize the pitching was bad that year and lost to Seattle in the Playoffs, but WAY WAY more fun than this team. We would die to have players like that on this team.

However I do get your point about how bad and boring this team is. I do HATE this team more than any other Sox team I've cheered for as a die-hard Sox fan in entire Sox fandom lifetime.

Look at those stats. How can you not like ball players who play most of the season and actually hit for power?

[TheBooneLoganEra]

7 minutes ago, The Beast said:

David Wells and his bad back say hello.

Look at those stats. How can you not like ball players who play most of the season and actually hit for power?

To be fair I don't think the author of the thread intended to insinuate "this is the most unlikeable team since the 2000 club." But rather this is the least likeable team in the last 23 years starting with 2000. Though I hated 2007 equally. Luis Terrera, Ryan bukvich and Andy Gonzalez are just a few names in there that still induce a gag reflex. But at least they tried.....they just had no talent.

[baseball_gal_aly]

48 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

To be fair I don't think the author of the thread intended to insinuate "this is the most unlikeable team since the 2000 club." But rather this is the least likeable team in the last 23 years starting with 2000. Though I hated 2007 equally. Luis Terrera, Ryan bukvich and Andy Gonzalez are just a few names in there that still induce a gag reflex. But at least they tried.....they just had no talent.

Interviewer: What kind of pitcher are you? 

Bukvich: Um, right handed? 

[YonderLaroche]

18 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Interviewer: What kind of pitcher are you? 

Bukvich: Um, right handed? 

2007 was awful coming off the World series.  2023 is just as bad but we are coming from a 6 year rebuild into knocked out of the first round with zero depth beyond has beens and bad contracts 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

To be fair I don't think the author of the thread intended to insinuate "this is the most unlikeable team since the 2000 club." But rather this is the least likeable team in the last 23 years starting with 2000. Though I hated 2007 equally. Luis Terrera, Ryan bukvich and Andy Gonzalez are just a few names in there that still induce a gag reflex. But at least they tried.....they just had no talent.

All the imported relievers... only concerned with pure stuff and not command/control. 

Owens Fields Wasserman. 

[Greg Hibbard]

Most agonizing seasons for me:

2022 and 2023 by far - one long nightmare than never seems to end

2003-  leading much of the way and then Torii Hunter mowing over Josh Paul to seal it and the Twins Twinballed us with their stupid cheaterdome.

2001 David Wells / Sirotkagate / Frank injures triceps in April, 8-19 start, very similar feeling to this exhausting disaster. 

2016 (he who shall not be named and who he was acquired for)

My favorite team is still the 2000 team, even over 2005. Sure 2005 was otherworldly and doesn’t seem real in some ways, and was a dream come true. I will cherish it forever. The 2000 felt like just my team - a bunch of cast offs who were perennial also rans to the Cleveland juggernaut finally punching back in the mouth and drawing blood and kicking ass. I remember the Tigers brawl game and then them winning 7 road games in a row on like Herbert Perry’s back. Jose Valentin having the luckiest roid season ever. James Baldwin opening the season 7-0 basically with so much offense he couldn’t lose. 10-2 Cal Eldred. It was a team absolutely playing above its head but they were so lovable and stupid lucky. We all knew they were gonna get killed in the playoffs but it was so nice to finally win that division. 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Greg Hibbard

[ScootsMcGoots]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Harder take on him - if all you had in terms of scouting was the MLB.com top 100 prospect list, which of those rebuild deals would you have not done?

He made a promising strategic call in selling off players when they had to move them, but part of a rebuild is supposed to be developing from your high draft picks and finding good players outside of those couple key trades. The Braves are rolling thanks in part to a 4th round pick in 2020 right now. The Astros won last year based on a bunch of guys who came in as international signings, a guy they picked up cheap from the Dodgers, a couple of former top picks. The White Sox got no help outside of those trades.

 

9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hahn's execution of the initial trades was excellent. The organization as a whole since that move has been awful on every front: scouting, coaching, drafting, asset allocation, trades (and yes) -- fan relations.

 

It was only the initial success of those trades that helped us do the little winning we did. 

We are essentially in the same position as we were in 2016. A bunch of guys with loads of talent (or so they tell us), but can't win ballgames. Same exact position, plus the injuries. And it's the same guys steering the ship. The main issues--they don't know how to develop talent, they don't know how to construct a well-balanced team, they don't know how to properly utilize players' strengths and weaknesses, and they don't know how to build a winning culture.

There were individuals on this message board that were adamant this rebuild would fail because of the front office. I was vehemently against those people. I would like to apologize, and they can say I told you so.

[Dick Allen]

To rebuild correctly, you have to take a deep dive into your minor leiague staff. These people are critical. Development has been a huge problem. 

[hogan873]

I was hoping that the return of TA would bring back some of the swagger and attitude, but only the attitude came back - a bad attitude.  These guys look bored out there.  I look at Luis Robert as the perfect example of how this team is out there.  Probably one of the most talented players in baseball, and he just doesn't try.  He'll look like a great hitter one day and then go up the plate and look bored and swinging at absolute s%*# with absolutely shitty swings the next day.  It's not for a lack of talent; it's a lack of giving a f***.

We can blame JR all we want, but the team has one of the higher payrolls in baseball.  It's bad enough that a good chunk of that money is spent on less-than-good players, but the players are going through the motions and not caring.  I used to be apprehensive about some key players being traded, but now I don't care.  It's time to clean house.  And, yes, I do believe that players like TA, Giolito, Lynn, etc. will play better elsewhere.  Tim will probably be a perennial all star with the Dodgers.  Fine, whatever.  He doesn't want to do it with the Sox?  See ya.

This team is boring.

[caulfield12]

49 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

 

We are essentially in the same position as we were in 2016. A bunch of guys with loads of talent (or so they tell us), but can't win ballgames. Same exact position, plus the injuries. And it's the same guys steering the ship. The main issues--they don't know how to develop talent, they don't know how to construct a well-balanced team, they don't know how to properly utilize players' strengths and weaknesses, and they don't know how to build a winning culture.

There were individuals on this message board that were adamant this rebuild would fail because of the front office. I was vehemently against those people. I would like to apologize, and they can say I told you so.

Three percent still happy with the job Hahn is doing. 

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/is-rick-hahns-job-safe-white-sox-fans-sure-hope-not/

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, hogan873 said:

I was hoping that the return of TA would bring back some of the swagger and attitude, but only the attitude came back - a bad attitude.  These guys look bored out there.  I look at Luis Robert as the perfect example of how this team is out there.  Probably one of the most talented players in baseball, and he just doesn't try.  He'll look like a great hitter one day and then go up the plate and look bored and swinging at absolute s%*# with absolutely shitty swings the next day.  It's not for a lack of talent; it's a lack of giving a f***.

We can blame JR all we want, but the team has one of the higher payrolls in baseball.  It's bad enough that a good chunk of that money is spent on less-than-good players, but the players are going through the motions and not caring.  I used to be apprehensive about some key players being traded, but now I don't care.  It's time to clean house.  And, yes, I do believe that players like TA, Giolito, Lynn, etc. will play better elsewhere.  Tim will probably be a perennial all star with the Dodgers.  Fine, whatever.  He doesn't want to do it with the Sox?  See ya.

This team is boring.

Payroll down to #12 from #7. 

Inertia. 

Robert is still a well above average defender in CF. 

How many Sox position players are even at least league average or above at this point, overall? 

Vaughn has decent counting numbers, but isn't a very good defender so far early into his 1B career. 

 

[caulfield12]

Grandal 18th out of 27 in fWAR at catcher

Vaughn 23/41

Andrus 29/35

Anderson 23/33

Burger 12/40

Colas 45/49

Robert 8/40

Benintendi 35/47

Jimenez 24/43

 

Just Burger and Robert.  Sosa would make most of the 2007 offense look good. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Outlier stats usually come with some regression lights flashing, but Lynn for the most part has earned this disastrous line. His expected ERA off batted-ball data is 5.45, which doesn't play in any format. He's allowing the worst hard-hit rate of his career. Also, his velocity is moving in the wrong direction; his average fastball is 92 mph, down from 92.7 and 93.5 the two previous seasons.

When a pitcher struggles, you'll hear common explanations. It's mechanical, they might say. We just need to make a few tweaks. That's a standard refrain. That can be true. Perhaps the White Sox can fix Lynn. Maybe Lynn can fix himself.

But when does a bad start become a bad season? And what about Lynn's 2022 season comforted you? Bottom line, the guy has made 29 starts since the beginning of last year, and they add up to a 4.93 ERA and 1.26 WHIP. I'm surprised he's still rostered in almost a quarter of Yahoo leagues.

Do what you need to do. Just remember this: So often in life (and in fantasy baseball), being afraid to make a mistake is the mistake. If you see something on the wire that catches your interest, you have my sign-off to cut Lynn.

 

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