41% decrease in viewership

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Today MLB gets the Cubs with a 5/5 share of Chicago and gains 100% of a new region when the team moves. 

A good number of Sox fans will just tune out, so lose market share here, go to a weaker economic situation and also lose a tax shakedown location in the process. s%*#, a good number here hate the Cubs more than they like the White Sox.

There is zero short or long term interest for the other MLB owners to lose a Chicago, New York or Los Angeles team. if anything, I can see owners trying to block a Sox move to Nashville or another market they they can grift an $1B expansion fee from rather than hand the location free of charge to Jerry.

[Texsox]

So there are a good number of Sox fans that will drop baseball. Seems like a small percentage of an ever dwindling number. Of course when they become the Astros they will draw like crazy. But what, in over a hundred years of Sox baseball, would indicate that's even remotely possible? 

I imagine watering down the talent even more with a couple more expansion teams is possible. But I believe with JRs tenure as owner the other owners would allow him to move because they wouldn't want to be interfered with. What's good for the goose and all. 

 

[tray]

 

Teams that are eliminated from play-off hopes early on undoubtedly sustain a hit in ticket sales and viewership. Not sure where the 41% comes from though. This seems like a rather subjective number. i.e, if you watched for two innings does that make you a viewer of that game for statistical purposes ?

[ewokpelts]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:50 AM, tray said:

 

Teams that are eliminated from play-off hopes early on undoubtedly sustain a hit in ticket sales and viewership. Not sure where the 41% comes from though. This seems like a rather subjective number. i.e, if you watched for two innings does that make you a viewer of that game for statistical purposes ?

it's based off Nielsen ratings. So you'd have to see how those metric are measured.

[South Side Hit Men]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:28 AM, Texsox said:

Today MLB gets the Cubs with a 5/5 share of Chicago and gains 100% of a new region when the team moves. 

 

A substantial percentage of MLB fans will shrink in this market. No more garbage crosstown series to pimp for either team to the drunks and clowns.

Less people have Marquee than JerryTV. MLB was fine with Oakland moving because that MSA market is half the size (4.6M) of Chicago (9.3M), and SF/Oakland continues to shrink over the past three years with endless lockdowns, vast numbers of businesses closing / leaving, and net replacement largely consisting of a lowered external immigration rate and large numbers of drug addict homeless moving in. 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-25/california-census-data

Bottom line is perhaps Ricketts would be happy, but the 29 other owners would not be, including whatever asshole moves the Sox out of Chicago when the long term impact is considered. Same as if Illinois actually followed the law, let the clock run out, and let the scumbag Dodger fans schlep the team to Tampa Bay to field annual 100-120 loss teams with a fraction of the revenue available here. Would have screwed up the Bulls as well with no programming half the years for SportsVision et al.

[Texsox]

31 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

A substantial percentage of MLB fans will shrink in this market. No more garbage crosstown series to pimp for either team to the drunks and clowns.

Less people have Marquee than JerryTV. MLB was fine with Oakland moving because that MSA market is half the size (4.6M) of Chicago (9.3M), and SF/Oakland continues to shrink over the past three years with endless lockdowns, vast numbers of businesses closing / leaving, and net replacement largely consisting of a lowered external immigration rate and large numbers of drug addict homeless moving in. 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-25/california-census-data

Bottom line is perhaps Ricketts would be happy, but the 29 other owners would not be, including whatever asshole moves the Sox out of Chicago when the long term impact is considered. Same as if Illinois actually followed the law, let the clock run out, and let the scumbag Dodger fans schlep the team to Tampa Bay to field annual 100-120 loss teams with a fraction of the revenue available here. Would have screwed up the Bulls as well with no programming half the years for SportsVision et al.

You are saying that a substantial percentage aren't MLB fans, they are only White Sox fans and will stop following baseball. 

I disagree. 

It's like when they moved the Expos and here you are. Still following baseball. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

You are saying that a substantial percentage aren't MLB fans, they are only White Sox fans and will stop following baseball. 

I disagree. 

You’re pissing away a substantial number of Sox fans (would say 1M-2M +) who will never support the Cubs. If you have your way I guess we will find out.

I only follow the Sox. Abreu getting a ring is the extent of my playoff interest this year. Won’t watch a second of Texas vs. Phil or Arizona, didn’t watch a second of playoffs last year and most other years since 1994 (2005 and 2020 vs. Oakland the primary exceptions).

Having a team back in Montreal would be the only way I’d consider returning to baseball, since the Expos were my 1A to my Sox 1.

[ScootsMcGoots]

22 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You’re pissing away a substantial number of Sox fans (would say 1M-2M +) who will never support the Cubs. If you have your way I guess we will find out.

I only follow the Sox. Abreu getting a ring is the extent of my playoff interest this year. Won’t watch a second of Texas vs. Phil or Arizona, didn’t watch a second of playoffs last year and most other years since 1994 (2005 and 2020 vs. Oakland the primary exceptions).

Having a team back in Montreal would be the only way I’d consider returning to baseball, since the Expos were my 1A to my Sox 1.

Interesting. I used to feel this way. Only watched the Sox. That's definitely the case in the regular season. But I've been watching postseason baseball. It's been very entertaining. Of course I wish the Sox were in it, as they should be this year had all gone according to plan. I don't think I'll ever be as excited or passionate about another team as the Sox, just because I bleed the silver, black and white. But watching these extremely talented and fun-to-watch teams has reinvigorated my love for the game. And, I know there are varying opinions, but the new pace of play definitely helps retain in-game interest.

And...if the Sox ever left I honestly would probably become a Cubs fan. I think the north-south hatred is stupid. Both teams are a part of this great city we all know and love. I wish there was more of a rivalry but that only comes when both teams are good, which rarely happens (see early-mid 2000's). I don't think I'd be as passionate as I am with the Sox, but I love the city of Chicago unlike any other. I've lived in Michigan for the last 11 years, I just can't get myself to be a fan of Detroit teams.

Edited October 19, 2023 by ScootsMcGoots

[JoeC]

11 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

Interesting. I used to feel this way. Only watched the Sox. That's definitely the case in the regular season. But I've been watching postseason baseball. It's been very entertaining. Of course I wish the Sox were in it, as they should be this year had all gone according to plan. I don't think I'll ever be as excited or passionate about another team as the Sox, just because I bleed the silver, black and white. But watching these extremely talented and fun-to-watch teams has reinvigorated my love for the game. And, I know there are varying opinions, but the new pace of play definitely helps retain in-game interest.

And...if the Sox ever left I honestly would probably become a Cubs fan. I think the north-south hatred is stupid. Both teams are a part of this great city we all know and love. I wish there was more of a rivalry but that only comes when both teams are good, which rarely happens (see early-mid 2000's). I don't think I'd be as passionate as I am with the Sox, but I love the city of Chicago unlike any other. I've lived in Michigan for the last 11 years, I just can't get myself to be a fan of Detroit teams.

I would probably drift eventually toward the Tigers, honestly... but I've lived in Michigan for longer than I lived in Chicago. I've already converted to being a Wings fan awhile ago after having sworn off the 'Hawks after they traded Chelios. Like hockey, if the Sox left Chicago, I would probably need a few years of transition to take to a previous rival. It would go from envy, to mild animosity, to reluctant indifference, to warm familiarity, to casual fandom.

No team would ever completely fill the void the Sox would leave, though.

[South Side Hit Men]

12 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

Interesting. I used to feel this way. Only watched the Sox. That's definitely the case in the regular season. But I've been watching postseason baseball. It's been very entertaining. Of course I wish the Sox were in it, as they should be this year had all gone according to plan. I don't think I'll ever be as excited or passionate about another team as the Sox, just because I bleed the silver, black and white. But watching these extremely talented and fun-to-watch teams has reinvigorated my love for the game. And, I know there are varying opinions, but the new pace of play definitely helps retain in-game interest.

And...if the Sox ever left I honestly would probably become a Cubs fan. I think the north-south hatred is stupid. Both teams are a part of this great city we all know and love. I wish there was more of a rivalry but that only comes when both teams are good, which rarely happens (see early-mid 2000's). I don't think I'd be as passionate as I am with the Sox, but I love the city of Chicago unlike any other. I've lived in Michigan for the last 11 years, I just can't get myself to be a fan of Detroit teams.

This is a solid post. I agree a subset of fans would move to Cubs or perhaps adopt another team. But I do believe there are a lot like me who like the Sox but that’s about it after how MLB has been run post Fay Vincent.

I agree the faux rivalry North vs. South is a lot of BS, but plays more to the average person that do not follow as closely as fans on message boards.

The only experience I have with something similar to the Sox moving would be family members and old timers I worked with at the racetracks in the 1980s who hated the Bears after they pushed out the Cardinals, and largely adopted Green Bay.

I followed / went to Steeler (at Soldier Field) and Green Bay games in Milwaukee & here, but stopped following the NFL a few decades ago shortly after the Packers stopped playing in Milwaukee. The last game I attended was at the final game Three Rivers Stadium, and only watched last year’s SB, the first since the late 1990s, because I watched out of town with family.

That said, I still hate the Bears and enjoy hearing about their abysmal failures post Lovie. I would take similar pleasure hearing of Sox failures if they left Chicago (even to the suburbs).

It would have been three decades of schadenfreude if Jerry moved to Tampa, because they would be dead last nearly every year, and only make money with a tanking annual payroll. I could see them legitimately contracting the Sox when that was a discussion a few decades ago.

Can you imagine Jerry trying to draw 10,000 in that s%*# stadium and location? Schadenfreude.

[Texsox]

It's not my way. I'm just rejecting the idea that most current Sox fans only care about the Sox and would give up following baseball for the rest of their lives if they moved. 

Cub and Sox fans sit together at Bears, Bulls, and Hawks games. We go to concerts together.  They will sit together at either stadium if either one of the teams moved. We're Chicagoans first. 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

It's not my way. I'm just rejecting the idea that most current Sox fans only care about the Sox and would give up following baseball for the rest of their lives if they moved. 

Cub and Sox fans sit together at Bears, Bulls, and Hawks games. We go to concerts together.  They will sit together at either stadium if either one of the teams moved. We're Chicagoans first. 

 

You’ve advocated for the Sox to move to Nashville for months. You also live in Texas, so hard for out of towners to gauge what’s happening here today vs. those who have lived here their entire life.

Now all the things that seemed important, well Mister they vanished right into the air…

 

 

[Texsox]

41 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You’ve advocated for the Sox to move to Nashville for months. You also live in Texas, so hard for out of towners to gauge what’s happening here today vs. those who have lived here their entire life.

Now all the things that seemed important, well Mister they vanished right into the air…

 

 

I'm advocating for JR not to own a baseball team in Chicago. 

[WBWSF]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This is a solid post. I agree a subset of fans would move to Cubs or perhaps adopt another team. But I do believe there are a lot like me who like the Sox but that’s about it after how MLB has been run post Fay Vincent.

I agree the faux rivalry North vs. South is a lot of BS, but plays more to the average person that do not follow as closely as fans on message boards.

The only experience I have with something similar to the Sox moving would be family members and old timers I worked with at the racetracks in the 1980s who hated the Bears after they pushed out the Cardinals, and largely adopted Green Bay.

I followed / went to Steeler (at Soldier Field) and Green Bay games in Milwaukee & here, but stopped following the NFL a few decades ago shortly after the Packers stopped playing in Milwaukee. The last game I attended was at the final game Three Rivers Stadium, and only watched last year’s SB, the first since the late 1990s, because I watched out of town with family.

That said, I still hate the Bears and enjoy hearing about their abysmal failures post Lovie. I would take similar pleasure hearing of Sox failures if they left Chicago (even to the suburbs).

It would have been three decades of schadenfreude if Jerry moved to Tampa, because they would be dead last nearly every year, and only make money with a tanking annual payroll. I could see them legitimately contracting the Sox when that was a discussion a few decades ago.

Can you imagine Jerry trying to draw 10,000 in that s%*# stadium and location? Schadenfreude.

If JR had moved the White Sox to Florida he would have sold the team  years ago. The Rays have already had 4 ownerships. I'm surprised that the present Rays ownership agreed to a new stadium in the same location. That tells me that no other city would build the Rays a new stadium.

 

[Jerksticks]

I have almost no interest in baseball anymore.  Like zero.  This playoffs all I’ve seen is Bryce Harper talking about getting chills playing for Phillies fans.  That was cool and really honest.  What could have been.  Haven’t watched any games though at all this year.  
 

Did TLR kill it for me?  I don’t even know.  All I know is I don’t care.  
 

Colson is exciting.  That seems to be my only interest point.   Maybe just wash the decks and start over with him and Robert?  Again, I’m probably just going to check in passively going forward.  Really weird considering my history but I have no regrets tuning it all out.  It just happened somehow. 
 

 

[Milkman delivers]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

It's not my way. I'm just rejecting the idea that most current Sox fans only care about the Sox and would give up following baseball for the rest of their lives if they moved. 

Cub and Sox fans sit together at Bears, Bulls, and Hawks games. We go to concerts together.  They will sit together at either stadium if either one of the teams moved. We're Chicagoans first. 

 

Screw Chicago. I have no love or allegiance to this city. I would absolutely stop watching baseball games if the Sox weren’t convenient for me to watch. I already stopped for several years and they didn’t even move.

[Texsox]

11 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Screw Chicago. I have no love or allegiance to this city. I would absolutely stop watching baseball games if the Sox weren’t convenient for me to watch. I already stopped for several years and they didn’t even move.

Which is interesting when folks belittle the out of town fans. It isn't convenient yet there they are. Still a fan. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Which is interesting when folks belittle the out of town fans. It isn't convenient yet there they are. Still a fan. 

Not belittling out of town fans, be it they lived here before or just adopted the team for whatever reason as I did the Expos in the 1970s. It's cool that people can support and follow the team in a way people couldn't pre-internet beyond possibly being within range of the White Sox radio network,

Just stating my case as a Chicagoan in terms of your statements regarding large numbers of Sox fans becoming Cubs fans and or still following baseball to the extent they do now post moving.

The White Sox have been home here for up to 6 + generations of fans, in Chicago, on 35th and Shields, where they have been since being a charter member of the American League in 1901.

Not in Arlington Heights, not in Decatur Illinois, not in Gary Indiana, not in Nashville Tennessee, not in San Antonio Texas.

[The Grinder]

If the Sox ever left the Chicago Metro area, no doubt I would become a Brewers fan. 

[Milkman delivers]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Which is interesting when folks belittle the out of town fans. It isn't convenient yet there they are. Still a fan. 

It’s all well and good if you choose to move away. But if they move away from you, it’s different.

I’m sure we all have that friend who moves an hour or more away and then complains that none of their friends ever comes to visit, as if it’s on everyone else to make the effort to see you instead of you coming back to see everyone else.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, The Grinder said:

If the Sox ever left the Chicago Metro area, no doubt I would become a Brewers fan. 

If the Sox left Chicago I'd simply stop watching baseball, period, full stop.

I would never under any circumstances become a Cub fan. 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If the Sox left Chicago I'd simply stop watching baseball, period, full stop.

I would never under any circumstances become a Cub fan. 

Same here. No Royals for me. No Cubs for me. If they moved to Vegas I'd still follow the Sox. If they moved anywhere else, no way. I have been to Vegas so many times and know my way around there that it feels familiar to me. 

I watched so little baseball this season I'm no longer well versed in the game. I used to watch so much baseball. It's a pity the Sox ineptitude did this to me and other Sox fans. The Sox formula to lose fans has been so dramatic: first getting rid of Hawk (albeit he was getting old), then hiring Tony (although Tony looks like a genius getting these stiffs to play .500), then of course getting rid of Jose and hiring Pedro which is simply absurd and now Getz which is a monumental mistake.

So we're stuck with this organization that can't even compete in the Central. Wow.

p.s. The powers that be also ruined baseball for me. Home run or bust. Starting pitchers can't go through the order 3 times, only 2; the Paul Konerko adjusting the velcro every pitch (til they went with the clock thank God); and the insane amount of injuries in the game today.

Edited October 20, 2023 by greg775

[The Grinder]

17 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If the Sox left Chicago I'd simply stop watching baseball, period, full stop.

I would never under any circumstances become a Cub fan. 

Im with you there Lip, if it came down to being a cub fan or death I'd flip a coin...and hope for death!

[FloydBannister1983]

21 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If the Sox left Chicago I'd simply stop watching baseball, period, full stop.

I would never under any circumstances become a Cub fan. 

I could easily root for the Rays or Astros.  I always had the Astros as my favorite NL team and the Rays are close enough April and May.

[tray]

White Sox aren't going anywhere. So sorry.