Sox looking at building in South Loop

[soxfan18]

1 minute ago, tray said:

JR has never said that or implied that. Never forget, this all started with Related after they failed when trying to develop that property previously, even with TIF tax incentives. JR was virtually dragged into this by an over zealous developer.  Of course he would build in Timbuktu with 2 Billion in public funding, but this whole thing was not his idea. At this point he would be wise to shut this nonsense down because it has been creating uncertainty out of thin air and depressing fans.

Again, they were not selected for 2 major projects. That was largely out of their control. 

Painting it as a "failure" to try to force your objective is comical. 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, tray said:

JR has never said that or implied that. 

Quote

According to Crain’s, he noted his age and said “when I’m gone,” Michael will be obligated to “do what’s best” for the other investors.

“That likely means putting the team up for sale. … The team will be worth more out of town,” Reinsdorf said.

You tell me how to read this otherwise. Direct quote. How else do you read "The team will be worth more out of town" other than a statement that they might leave town?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/02/22/column-jerry-reinsdorfs-about-face-on-the-white-sox-possibly-leaving-chicago-is-history-and-hypocrisy-repeating-itself/

Hell, I can't get the full article, but literally the Crain's article starts with this!

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/sports/chicago-white-sox-need-new-stadium-compete-stay-city-jerry-reinsdorf

Quote

If Chicago is to keep the White Sox from moving out of state — and the team is to be a consistent game winner — it must have the revenue and lures that a new stadium would provide.

That’s the pitch from White Sox chairman and principal owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who in an exclusive interview with Crain’s provided key new details about why and how the team wants to decamp from Bridgeport’s Guaranteed Rate Field to a new, publicly owned stadium built on Related Midwest’s The 78 property in the South Loop.

 

[Lightly Folded]

I don’t know if a stadium deal ever went up in smoke as fast as this one did in the history of professional sports 

[Dick Allen]

57 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You don’t think the talk of a new ballpark is also a distraction caused by JR to keep fans excited in the team even though the Sox are coming off of an epic failure of a long rebuild and look like they are going to be a terrible team for the next few years?  This all benefits our terrible owner as well.

The renderings of the park went over really well. That, except where they couldn't spell Chicago, couldn't have gone better for Related and JR. Then the  billion dollar asked got leaked, and that didn't go over well. Then JR went to Springfield and said well actually it's 4 billion to complete phase one where, apparently he wants the state to not only build him a ballpark, but a hotel and some restaurants and bars.  That , I guess it is hoped, will get others to actually pay their own costs and finish the project. Yet there is no proof of that.

[Quin]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Here's the straight up problem.

Would it be normal for your city to not only do all those things, but to also literally pay 100% of Amazon's construction costs? You didn't say that or allege that, but that's basically the setup we're seeing.

A $1-1.2 billion ballpark, with a $1-$1.2 billion subsidy for the ballpark, combined with an extra $600-$900 million that includes the TIF district and various other tax breaks already established.

As far as I can tell, with what Reinsdorf has asked for, the state would be better off just buying the White Sox, building the new ballpark, then selling the White Sox for $1 billion more than they paid for it once the ballpark is complete.

I'm here for the scenario where Chris Getz has to present his vision for the team at a state budget hearing.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

You're nuts if you think this is going to be a big draw from out of towners, at least to that level. Besides what does the state and city gain if people go there instead of Millenium Park and Navy Pier other than losing out on the taxes they accumulate so Jerry's park can be paid off?

You know businesses pay tax, right? 

I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

[Lightly Folded]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I'm here for the scenario where Chris Getz has to present his vision for the team at a state budget hearing.

This morning Bernstein on The Score alluded that the Sox don’t deserve public financing because they don’t have enough fans. What I took from that was he setting up his argument that the Bears deserve public financing because of their large fandom. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Having lived in the South Loop when there was next to nothing as far as dining or nightlife, I believe it will be a draw, even on non game days. Printer's Row was the closest decent bar back then, and I had to trek to the northside or Wicker for better options most of the time. I don't think the detractors here really know just how few good options there are nearby.

And rents will be initially cheap, relatively speaking, meaning a restaurant scene can take hold for a decade plus similarly to Fulton market development. 

The south loop is one of the last underdeveloped areas in the city. I've said this 100 times but this would be a massive W for the city IF done right

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know businesses pay tax, right? 

I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

Right, but the taxes collected at Millenium Park and Navy Pier can be used for other things than paying down Jerry's park and hotel. The taxes in the 78 under Jerry's proposal cannot. I've put my fiscal foot down on lots of things. You think the 78 is blight, what do you think the area around GRF will look like 15 years from now with all the weeds popping up from the parking lots.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Right, but the taxes collected at Millenium Park and Navy Pier can be used for other things than paying down Jerry's park and hotel. The taxes in the 78 under Jerry's proposal cannot. I've put my fiscal foot down on lots of things. You think the 78 is blight, what do you think the area around GRF will look like 15 years from now with all the weeds popping up from the parking lots.

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so....

The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth.

Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so....

The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth.

Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

That's BS. No team has ever been given by any state or city, JR's ask. Not even half. Related is scrambling. Office buildings are out, so the people that would have worked in them won't be interested in Apartments right there. Again, they claim that if the state builds what they want built, others will follow, AND use their own money. Do they have commitments? It's just more BS. It's time to tell Jerry, he has the park he designed. He has been offered development in the parking lots for OVER 20 years. He said no. I told this board about this way back when. He thought building bars and restaurants in the parking lots would hurt the beer and food sales in the ballpark, while also hurting his parking money. Now, it is exactly what he needs to compete with the Royals. I think it could be done very nicely and a lot cheaper than the 4 billion ask. Maybe not at the 78, and I liked the renderings. I would love to go to games there. It's closer to me. But not at that cost. If you don't like the current park, the same guy is making the calls on this one. Keep that in mind.

Edited February 23 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Right, but the taxes collected at Millenium Park and Navy Pier can be used for other things than paying down Jerry's park and hotel. The taxes in the 78 under Jerry's proposal cannot. I've put my fiscal foot down on lots of things. You think the 78 is blight, what do you think the area around GRF will look like 15 years from now with all the weeds popping up from the parking lots.

I realize what you are saying but it's is exactly what you said,  a proposal. Just like the discussion with the Baltimore fans, this will be a negotiation. What was put out there was JR initial proposal which is the pie in the sky proposal that he knows won't get approved. The detractors of the projects are hyping it up to make it look bad.

If it's approved it won't look like this and even he knows it. It's the beginning of negotiations. 

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Right, but the taxes collected at Millenium Park and Navy Pier can be used for other things than paying down Jerry's park and hotel. The taxes in the 78 under Jerry's proposal cannot. I've put my fiscal foot down on lots of things. You think the 78 is blight, what do you think the area around GRF will look like 15 years from now with all the weeds popping up from the parking lots.

Would there be no one willing to build apartment complexes or businesses in an area of Chicago with easy access to I-94?

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I realize what you are saying but it's is exactly what you said,  a proposal. Just like the discussion with the Baltimore fans, this will be a negotiation. What was put out there was JR initial proposal which is the pie in the sky proposal that he knows won't get approved. The detractors of the projects are hyping it up to make it look bad.

If it's approved it won't look like this and even he knows it. It's the beginning of negotiations. 

Also keep in mind if this place is as hot as people claim, 5 million a year, that's going to require some police. City is way short right now. Who pays?

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I realize what you are saying but it's is exactly what you said,  a proposal. Just like the discussion with the Baltimore fans, this will be a negotiation. What was put out there was JR initial proposal which is the pie in the sky proposal that he knows won't get approved. The detractors of the projects are hyping it up to make it look bad.

If it's approved it won't look like this and even he knows it. It's the beginning of negotiations. 

And there are some that think negotiations have gone significantly better behind closed doors than the media has reported.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Would there be no one willing to build apartment complexes or businesses in an area of Chicago with easy access to I-94?

So far, no. Nothing has been built either here, or any sane person would tell you, a better location, and easier access to the expressway, Lincoln Yards. 

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, Quin said:

I'm here for the scenario where Chris Getz has to present his vision for the team at a state budget hearing.

Merkin
 

Changes were made to the coaching staff, with Marcus Thames, Jason Bourgeois, Drew Butera, Grady Sizemore and Matt Wise now adding their expertise. Getz set out to improve the team defensively, making the White Sox a comfortable and hopefully attractive place for pitchers, which is baseball’s most important commodity. He also consciously added players who were clubhouse presences, and players with a history of winning.

“I sat down with players. I had some serious conversations with staff, and it wasn't a witch hunt by any stretch,” Getz said. “I was trying to identify patterns, and then set out to improve those areas. It was front office interactions, the coaching staff, the resources, the medical, nutrition, any sort of process that exists that could potentially improve.

“Clearly, there is more work to be done. We need to learn more about our team. I feel like we’ve got the right people to evaluate that, the right people to enhance the skill-sets that we have and make sound decisions moving forward. You just want to stack good decision on top of good decision, and you look up and you are in a pretty good spot.”

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Merkin
 

Changes were made to the coaching staff, with Marcus Thames, Jason Bourgeois, Drew Butera, Grady Sizemore and Matt Wise now adding their expertise. Getz set out to improve the team defensively, making the White Sox a comfortable and hopefully attractive place for pitchers, which is baseball’s most important commodity. He also consciously added players who were clubhouse presences, and players with a history of winning.

“I sat down with players. I had some serious conversations with staff, and it wasn't a witch hunt by any stretch,” Getz said. “I was trying to identify patterns, and then set out to improve those areas. It was front office interactions, the coaching staff, the resources, the medical, nutrition, any sort of process that exists that could potentially improve.

“Clearly, there is more work to be done. We need to learn more about our team. I feel like we’ve got the right people to evaluate that, the right people to enhance the skill-sets that we have and make sound decisions moving forward. You just want to stack good decision on top of good decision, and you look up and you are in a pretty good spot.”

Better defense will appeal to pitchers. Scoring 2 runs a game probably won't.

[caulfield12]

30 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so....

The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth.

Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

What have they done to be rewarded with THREE times the biggest ask in the history of MLB (Tampa Bay’s $650 million) in public subsidies and even 2/3rd’s of a billion over the biggest public subsidy for an NFL team in Tennessee?

He doesn’t have to be Stan Kroenke…but at least that guy and even Ricketts put his money where his mouth is.

Now if someone with a proven record like Theo Epstein was coming in to run this whole thing…the public would have vastly more faith than they do in the Reinsdorfs (seems the son isn’t even allowed to speak to the media on the Sox), Getz and Grifol.

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So far, no. Nothing has been built either here, or any sane person would tell you, a better location, and easier access to the expressway, Lincoln Yards. 

Yeah we know why no one has built here, there's significant money required to be spent to bring in resources. I can't build a building on the 78 site right now because there's no water hookups, there's no sewage hookups. Power lines. Road connections. Stabilized ground. There's significant work required to turn this land into something of value to the city, and that's part of the problem. A big part.

You have no choice but to put a few hundred million dollars into the 78 to turn it into usable, non-vacant land. You aren't going to put that much money into the land unless someone is actually developing the whole thing, and no one will want to put that much money into this land if it only drives low-density development. Combine that with a previously corrupt owner of the land and you have all the reasons why no development has done with the 78 property.

I could build a working, functional building on one of those parking lots right now. There's plumbing hookups. The park has flushing toilets and running water and power. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, tray said:

JR has never said that or implied that. Never forget, this all started with Related after they failed when trying to develop that property previously, even with TIF tax incentives. JR was virtually dragged into this by an over zealous developer.  Of course he would build in Timbuktu with 2 Billion in public funding, but this whole thing was not his idea. At this point he would be wise to shut this nonsense down because it has been creating uncertainty out of thin air and depressing fans.

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[Lightly Folded]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

What have they done to be rewarded with THREE times the biggest ask in the history of MLB (Tampa Bay’s $650 million) in public subsidies and even 2/3rd’s of a billion over the biggest public subsidy for an NFL team in Tennessee?

He doesn’t have to be Stan Kroenke…but at least that guy and even Ricketts put his money where his mouth is.

Now if someone with a proven record like Theo Epstein was coming in to run this whole thing…the public would have vastly more faith than they do in the Reinsdorfs (seems the son isn’t even allowed to speak to the media on the Sox), Getz and Grifol.

Point of order……Ricketts tried very hard to win public financing help…..but lost. 

[Chicago White Sox]

52 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know businesses pay tax, right? 

I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

I didn’t realize that this many Sox fans care more about Jerry losing than the organization actually winning.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know businesses pay tax, right? 

I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

I can only speak for myself but I'm simply tired of this ownership.

Of the penny pinching ways, the still insane desire to destroy the MLBPA, the arrogant attitude of "We know better, who are you to even question us" when history shows that way doesn't work, the inbred hiring of just members of the "family" over the years (like this was the mafia) and the incompetent, dysfunctional and inept decisions to go along with the back biting and power struggles (as outlined in my November 2022 story "The State of the Sox.") inside the organization.

To say nothing of the garbage baseball on the field.

From 1981 through 2006 Sox fans at least could reasonably think the franchise would at least have a winning season and at least be competitive, the numbers show that. 

But since 2007 it has ben a total clusterfuck, one of the worst records in baseball and that's saying something.

Now after JR getting what he wanted in the late 80's suddenly what he demanded back then isn't good enough.

In my opinion it would be good enough if there was a good organization and he would keep his nose out of the baseball side of things. Again he thinks he knows better than everyone in the room. The latest debacle being TLR.

He doesn't.

And I think it's a good guess a large portion of them fan base is simply tired and want him gone one way or the other.

Just leave and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

If fans are complaining they have every right to be given the misery they have seen on the field especially the last 17 years and the dysfunction in the front office.

I don't blame them one bit. And the organization (and some fans) should kiss the asses of every fan who after all this still actually cares enough to complain.

They aren't far away from what's even worse. Total apathy. 

And with all this history JR still has the gall to say its the fans fault for not supporting a garbage product. Which he recently did when he said that's why they can't afford top free agents. They can't afford the top free agents for one reason only, because JR doesn't feel players are worth the money they are getting from other teams and owners. 

Well adapt or (not literally) die JR.

And remember this is the same guy who at that economic forum last year said this:

"Sports is a business of failure but the fact that you finish second or third or fourth it doesn’t mean you had a bad year."

Of course not because that way the fans still have some hope and you continue to make tons of money...that's JR's business philosophy. 

Edited February 23 by Lip Man 1

[waltwilliams]

2 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

I understand your statement but it just proves that the whole thing is hypocritical should the Bears get public funding simply because they are the Bears. Funding of state and city human being issues should outweigh the Royal family (Bears) needs.

The Bears have always maintained that they want their new stadium to be privately financed -- McCaskey is quoted saying this during a public forum in Arlington Heights a few years ago: https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/09/09/bears-plan-for-5-billion-stadium-campus-doesnt-include-retractable-roof-and-would-need-public-funding-team-says/.

The public money they want is for infrastructure -- similar to how SoFi Stadium was built in LA.

If that's still the case, then a privately funded domed stadium for the Bears (and other events) is a much easier sell than an entirely publicly funded stadium for the second MLB team in town, which has no real name recognition outside of Chicago and won't move the tourism needle at all, unlike Wrigley Field.

True, the Bears only play eight games a year. But there's also the potential for other big events like Super Bowl, Final Four and concerts (where they would successfully compete with Reinsdorf's United Center, especially for bigger acts). Also, a domed stadium could conceivably be used for spillover convention-related events.

In this current financial climate, no new stadiums really make sense for Chicago. But a domed stadium for the Bears and other events makes much more sense than an unnecessary baseball-only facility for a mediocre organization in a sport with an aging fan base.