Tim Anderson signs with MIA, 1Y/5M

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think it is difficult for a person to say something honest when their paycheck depends on them toeing the company line.

 

[Texsox]

Does their paycheck really depend on it? I can think of guys like Rocker with homophobic comments, or Campanis with racist comments, getting fired but I can't think of anyone getting fired for calling out teammates or the manager.

Bottom line, players can't manage themselves. They need coaches and managers. They all failed. It really doesn't matter if they liked the guy or not.

I think most folks like working for a manager who leaves them alone. So it doesn't surprise me they liked working for TLR. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does their paycheck really depend on it? I can think of guys like Rocker with homophobic comments, or Campanis with racist comments, getting fired but I can't think of anyone getting fired for calling out teammates or the manager.

Bottom line, players can't manage themselves. They need coaches and managers. They all failed. It really doesn't matter if they liked the guy or not.

I think most folks like working for a manager who leaves them alone. So it doesn't surprise me they liked working for TLR. 

They don't but most guys wouldn't talk negatively about their employer with a mic in front of their faces.

Edited March 12 by Bob Sacamano

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does their paycheck really depend on it? I can think of guys like Rocker with homophobic comments, or Campanis with racist comments, getting fired but I can't think of anyone getting fired for calling out teammates or the manager.

Bottom line, players can't manage themselves. They need coaches and managers. They all failed. It really doesn't matter if they liked the guy or not.

I think most folks like working for a manager who leaves them alone. So it doesn't surprise me they liked working for TLR. 

Benetti was pushed out for not eating food to their liking, food they asked him to promote on the air, and also for requesting to be in person to broadcast White Sox games.

The Orioles guy got suspended for saying the Orioles beat the Rays more during the 2023 season than the previous two years combined.

People are petty. MLB owners and management take it next level.

[Snopek]

Since this is the White Sox we're talking about, I'm pretty sure it's all the fans fault in the end.

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does their paycheck really depend on it? I can think of guys like Rocker with homophobic comments, or Campanis with racist comments, getting fired but I can't think of anyone getting fired for calling out teammates or the manager.

Bottom line, players can't manage themselves. They need coaches and managers. They all failed. It really doesn't matter if they liked the guy or not.

I think most folks like working for a manager who leaves them alone. So it doesn't surprise me they liked working for TLR. 

 

It happened to an announcer in BAL last year most recently.

[Balta1701]

40 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does their paycheck really depend on it? I can think of guys like Rocker with homophobic comments, or Campanis with racist comments, getting fired but I can't think of anyone getting fired for calling out teammates or the manager.

Bottom line, players can't manage themselves. They need coaches and managers. They all failed. It really doesn't matter if they liked the guy or not.

I think most folks like working for a manager who leaves them alone. So it doesn't surprise me they liked working for TLR. 

Or Jason Benetti who was too smart and chewed funny.

[JoeC]

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Ricky was a bad game manager, but the players played hard for him and by every indication were a tight group behind the scenes. The unraveling began the moment the TLR rumors started swirling and the downward spiral ensued.

Yep - Ricky was a great rebuild manager to instill discipline and cohesion.

Half wondering if the 1/3-season success of 2020 was enough to induce delusional confidence in the 2021 season… I wonder if 2020 would have been a full season and the team would have inevitably hit the wall, would Ricky have hung around for 2021, and TLR wouldn’t have come back?

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Or Jason Benetti who was too smart and chewed funny.

You didn't think players are different than announcers or secretaries? 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Benetti was pushed out for not eating food to their liking, food they asked him to promote on the air, and also for requesting to be in person to broadcast White Sox games.

The Orioles guy got suspended for saying the Orioles beat the Rays more during the 2023 season than the previous two years combined.

People are petty. MLB owners and management take it next level.

Seems like players are treated differently. Can you think of a player treated like Benetti?

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

It happened to an announcer in BAL last year most recently.

Everyone has announcer examples, I'm trying to think of a player? I can't. 

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Seems like players are treated differently. Can you think of a player treated like Benetti?

Players have union rights, so better protected than the rest of the human race Jerry looks down upon.

I recall Frank Thomas getting chased out of here by Kenny Williams for not sufficiently kissing his ass. Earned a 3.2 bWAR the following season, or 3.4 higher then Kenny’s substandard playing career.

Also recall Fisk also treated shabbily on multiple occasions out of spite.

The only two legitimate HOFers playing primarily for the Sox since 1980.

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Also recall Fisk also treated shabbily on multiple occasions out of spite.

A lot of guys moan when they stay on a year too long, and they've got to be asked to leave, like Karko. They really f*cked with Fisk by cutting him on the road, and making him find his own way back to Chicago. KW always had lot to say about specific players, be it scolding guys like Kelly Wunch in the press for whatever issues, telling Durham he wasn't giving up switch hitting through the press, or being angry that Aaron Myette used to put on lots of eye black so it would run down his face as he pitched to freak out hitters. 

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Players have union rights, so better protected than the rest of the human race Jerry looks down upon.

I also remember KW losing it in the press over private issues with Jim Parque, or chiding Carlos Castillo for his weight, again, through the press. KW was kind of a hard-ass who liked to enforce his alpha nature. 

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Players have union rights, so better protected than the rest of the human race Jerry looks down upon.

I recall Frank Thomas getting chased out of here by Kenny Williams for not sufficiently kissing his ass. Earned a 3.2 bWAR the following season, or 3.4 higher then Kenny’s substandard playing career.

Also recall Fisk also treated shabbily on multiple occasions out of spite.

The only two legitimate HOFers playing primarily for the Sox since 1980.

Frank was 38, coming off a year in which he played in 34 games and was replaced by Jim Thome. Thome put up 4.8 WAR in 2006 on .598 SLG.

[South Side Hit Men]

6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Frank was 38, coming off a year in which he played in 34 games and was replaced by Jim Thome. Thome put up 4.8 WAR in 2006 on .598 SLG.

Thome also cost them over $14M plus another $30M the following two years, not to mention Gio Gonzalez and Aaron Rowand.

All Frank cost was $3.1M and Kenny swallowing a little of his pride and arrogance, but anyone familiar with the White Sox know pride and arrogance is the hallmark of the past 43 years.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

24 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Frank was 38, coming off a year in which he played in 34 games and was replaced by Jim Thome. Thome put up 4.8 WAR in 2006 on .598 SLG.

This is true and Thome was great for the Sox, but it was most definitely more about Kenny hating Frank at the time.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/frank-thomas-mending-relationship-with-white-sox/2093312/?amp=1

Edited March 13 by WhiteSox2023

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I also remember KW losing it in the press over private issues with Jim Parque, or chiding Carlos Castillo for his weight, again, through the press. KW was kind of a hard-ass who liked to enforce his alpha nature. 

Don't forget the Jon Rauch saga. And of course KW tossing over the food tables, calling the players "bitches" after they lost a game in Baltimore.

My take on the Frank Thomas situation, clearly there was dislike between the two men (remember KW called Frank an "idiot") but from a baseball standpoint, Thomas was in his mid-30's was very heavy and had suffered bad foot injuries in 1999, 2004 and 2005. That much stress on a bad leg/ankle at his age was a legit concern so I can see why the Sox felt they had no choice.

As far as Fisk, the dislike between him and JR was palpable. And the way the Sox treated him was a big reason why he went into the Hall of Fame wearing a Red Sox hat even though he lived in Chicago, raised his kids in Chicago, played for more years and in more games with the White Sox than the Red Sox. Also worth noting is the Frontline special on PBS that aired in April 1993 called, "The Trouble With Baseball" (I have it in my library) Fisk's contract situation was one of the featured items and both he and JR actually were ripping each other on camera during separate interviews.

June 28, 1993 - In the first of what would become a series of major public relations disasters, the White Sox released Carlton Fisk on the road in Cleveland. Fisk accompanied the team to Ohio only to be told of his release before the game.

No question, Fisk was finished as a player, but the fans and media were outraged at the way the Sox handled the situation. In fact, the Sox sent faxes to the media announcing the move, not even having the courtesy to hold a press conference.

Fisk, the future Hall of Famer, had to say his goodbyes to his former teammates from the stands at Municipal Stadium during that evening’s game before returning to Chicago.

August 4, 2000 - Catcher Carlton Fisk was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Even though Fisk played more games and for more years with the White Sox, he went in wearing the colors of the Red Sox.

Fisk explained to the Chicago media, that his choice in no way reflected any animosity towards White Sox fans but was based in part on his treatment by the organization and ownership over the years.

October 5, 1993 - Game #1 of the A.L.C.S. was a complete unmitigated disaster both on and off the field for the Sox.

On the field, Toronto ripped the Sox 7-3 but by the middle of the game, not one fan cared.  

Michael Jordan who threw out the ceremonial first pitch confirmed reports that he was holding a press conference the next morning to announce his retirement from the Bulls. Fans at the game and around the city were in shock.

Adding insult to injury, future Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk and Chicago native and former Sox pitcher Donn Pall were turned away by security guards when they attempted to wish the team good luck in the locker room before the game started. The White Sox claimed the rules were set by Major League Baseball but no fan or media member was fooled by that comment. Most media members felt Fisk was turned away on explicit orders from owner Jerry Reinsdorf. It was an insult Fisk never forgot.

Reinsdorf then took an unprecedented step of apologizing to the team in the clubhouse before the start of game #2 saying he had no wish to take away their spotlight because of the Jordan situation.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

My take on the Frank Thomas situation, clearly there was dislike between the two men (remember KW called Frank an "idiot") but from a baseball standpoint, Thomas was in his mid-30's was very heavy and had suffered bad foot injuries in 1999, 2004 and 2005. That much stress on a bad leg/ankle at his age was a legit concern so I can see why the Sox felt they had no choice.

The Frank Thomas saga is a reason why Ozzie should never be considered for the Sox dugout again. KW and Ozzie's kid were airing Frank's private issues just to spit on him as he left the franchise. As I said up front, many big leaguers stay on a year too long, then get angry at management when management has to pull the plug. KW and team Ozzie should have just shut up and let everything die down. 

Everything they did to Fisk was so off the charts. But JR and Einhorn are the guys who couldn't be happy in 83, they had to call Harry Caray names because they were so punk-assed.