11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet, how behind all of them are we?  If we are going to get there we need a critical mass of talent getting here in a narrow window to make up 40-50 entire games to be a real playoff threat.  Every time a Grant Taylor falls off, that is one less opportunity for that to happen. 

Not as far behind as you think if the owner actually spends money next offseason. That, of course, is a big if.

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or it could be they are just being fair to Grant Taylor. 

They have stated that in order to assess if a prospect is ready they want them not only to be just good, they want them be extremely good. I forget the exact wording. Something about breaking down the door where your performance is so good it makes all the sense in the world to be called up. 

You want to reward high performance within the organization. You don't deny them the opportunity to improve the quality of their lives just because starting his clock now isn't conducive to the MLB team needing a closer. 

I'm thinking they don't put him into a closer role right away. He'll probably get his feet wet throwing an inning or 2 as the 1st man out of the pen after the starter departs. 

Bannister said they aren't ruling him out as a starter so it's very likely that trying to establish him as an elite closer in month and half then trading him would be pretty ridiculous.

This.  It’s nice to see integrity over team control prioritized.  Sends a great message to these guys.  You can earn your shot here.  

18 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Not as far behind as you think if the owner actually spends money next offseason. That, of course, is a big if.

We were a 41 win team last year.  We are on pace for 54.  We are WAY behind and we are 100% not spending big in the off season.

We are not close in any way, shape, or form.

I was totally against this but Bannister did a great job elaborating on their plan. It makes sense. 

10 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I was totally against this but Bannister did a great job elaborating on their plan. It makes sense. 

I haven’t been able to listen, but what did he say is the plan?

There are five pitchers in the league who are Taylor's height or shorter and have as much or more extension than Taylor and all five pitchers are relievers including this fella named Edwin Diaz.   

3 hours ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Good shout. Bannister's always a great listen.

You know who else has elite extension? Logan Gilbert and Zach Wheeler. Two of the most durable arms in the game the past 4-5 years. Let's not cherry pick guys who got hurt to say Grant would too.

This likely does not apply to Grant but I personally would like to see at least a few  pitchers with special velocity or strike-out material groomed as set-up men or Closers. That routine probably would have suited a pitcher like Kopech. There are examples of pitchers who had pretty great long careers as Closer (Mariano Rivera, Goose Gossage). Imagine having a guy like that saving games for the Sox. Much more impactful than a starter unless we are talking about an Ace.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

If your offense and defense aren't elite you need a lot more pitching. 

Yeah and I still find the offense questionable, even if the Mongomeries are both good. You know Jerry still at the head, they won’t spend on power. Need that pitching.

9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

There are five pitchers in the league who are Taylor's height or shorter and have as much or more extension than Taylor and all five pitchers are relievers including this fella named Edwin Diaz.   

So we're citing glasnow who is 6'8 in our original example but limiting the sample you give to guys who are 6'3 or less so guys like Gilbert don't count.

Interesting logic. Is this what the analytics team at the Sox are drawing up these days? 

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know who else has elite extension? Logan Gilbert and Zach Wheeler. Two of the most durable arms in the game the past 4-5 years. Let's not cherry pick guys who got hurt to say Grant would too.

Picking only 2 out of the list is more of the cherry picking. Look at all the others. The 2 you picked are the outliers.

There's no guarantee they are right but the numbers are in their favor, especially considering the injuries Grant has already suffered. Maybe those two can handle it. Grant has already struggled with it. I dont blame them for being conservative.

Everyone would prefer that he would be a starter. They even tried earlier this year.

3 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I wonder if they are trying to show the league he can be a light out closer so they can move him at the deadline?

I dont see any upside in starting his clock now since we aren't going to be winning anything this year and prolly not next year, so there's no need for a closer, so I don't see what they are trying to accomplish unless they're showing him off to contending teams.

Why would they do that?  

 

25 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Picking only 2 out of the list is more of the cherry picking. Look at all the others. The 2 you picked are the outliers.

There's no guarantee they are right but the numbers are in their favor, especially considering the injuries Grant has already suffered. Maybe those two can handle it. Grant has already struggled with it. I dont blame them for being conservative.

Everyone would prefer that he would be a starter. They even tried earlier this year.

Please, what's the correlation coefficient between extension and injuries. How are you normalizing for all the other variables?

Anyone who says they can predict pitching injuries based on something as simple as extension is a liar. Period.

Editing to add: 

Guys who have started with elite extension (95+) since 2020:

Freddy peralta, Brent suter, Blake snell, wheeler, manaea, David peterson, gilbert, glasnow, Ober, whitlock, falter, Megill, gavin williams, crochet, pablo Lopez, arrighetti. 

A collection of non-unique arms as it relates to injury outcomes vs expected (comparing their ratio of time on IL and time off vs league average).

Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by Look at Ray Ray Run

27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah and I still find the offense questionable, even if the Mongomeries are both good. You know Jerry still at the head, they won’t spend on power. Need that pitching.

When successful players want a contract Jerry infects us with the mental illness of trade frenzy.  

21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Please, what's the correlation coefficient between extension and injuries. How are you normalizing for all the other variables?

Anyone who says they can predict pitching injuries based on something as simple as extension is a liar. Period.

This is not about 100% correlation. This is about looking at the trends and what the probability is. Just like with variables with UCL injuries, we know they are certain things that are risk factors for certain injuries. For example elbow angle and ball distance from the pitchers head have a high correlation to UCL injuries.

The medical system is built on Clinical prediction rules and models that show us probabilities and likelihood.

This is a new one on me but as I stated in a previous post it makes physiologic sense. 

I dont blame them from being conservative with it.

Just like with all of the other discussion it not an all or nothing discussion. This isn't saying this one thing will 100% cause another. It's about the probability and likelihood of something happening.

Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by ptatc

5 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Neat.

Sure seems the org thinks he's a bullpen arm. Should be electric in that role. Lord knows the bullpen needs help.

I'll still hope he transitions into a starter a la Crochet though. 🥲

Jon Garland and Mark Buehrle had stints in starting out of the pen.

Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by The Beast

The sample size of players with Taylor's specific combination of height and extension is so small as to probably not be particularly predictive on either role or injury risk

But I remember reading this relatively nerdy back and forth on it in ST: https://x.com/sunshinevvn/status/1898863172695781868

 

13 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

The sample size of players with Taylor's specific combination of height and extension is so small as to probably not be particularly predictive on either role or injury risk

But I remember reading this relatively nerdy back and forth on it in ST: https://x.com/sunshinevvn/status/1898863172695781868

 

One thing they all have in common is they are all in the bullpen. One is on the 60 day IL.

52 minutes ago, tray said:

This likely does not apply to Grant but I personally would like to see at least a few  pitchers with special velocity or strike-out material groomed as set-up men or Closers. That routine probably would have suited a pitcher like Kopech. There are examples of pitchers who had pretty great long careers as Closer (Mariano Rivera, Goose Gossage). Imagine having a guy like that saving games for the Sox. Much more impactful than a starter unless we are talking about an Ace.

No it isn’t. 
 

Emmanuel Clase has been a fantastic closer in his career. Last year, he put up a 0.61 ERA in 74 IP, giving up 5 ER the entire season, notching a league leading 47 saves. He had a 4.4 WAR

In 2005, Jon Garland put up a 4.6 WAR. No one has ever confused Jon Garland with an ace. 

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know who else has elite extension? Logan Gilbert and Zach Wheeler. Two of the most durable arms in the game the past 4-5 years. Let's not cherry pick guys who got hurt to say Grant would too.

Giolito would be another...not exactly a poster child for good health.

Btw, where do Crochet, Sale and Rodon stand in this category?

28 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Jon Garland and Mark Buehrle had stints in starting out of the pen.

But his very first appearance was a start against KC, if I remember correctly...

He didn't enter the big league team as a reliever as guys like Buehrle and Sale and Crochet all did.

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You know who else has elite extension? Logan Gilbert and Zach Wheeler. Two of the most durable arms in the game the past 4-5 years. Let's not cherry pick guys who got hurt to say Grant would too.

Link ? Extension stats 

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Link ? Extension stats 

Of course, Wheeler went through 3-4 seasons (previously) with the Mets where he was one of the biggest league-wide health question marks since Dark Knight Matt Harvey and the 2021-22 Chicago White Sox.

And now Gilbert's on the verge of a health decision returning from a "mild" right elbow flexor strain of his own...going through more MiLB rehab starts.

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Link ? Extension stats 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/percentile-rankings?type=pitcher&year=2024&team=&sort=17&sortDir=desc

14 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Well, Getz is being aggressive with the kids this season, I will credit him with that.  Seems to be a lot of excitement around this guys arm, so it should be fun to see it play out 

While I have had issues with all the goings on, the old Kenny teams would always be gathering mediocre and shot veterans trying to salvage .500 baseball, with no farm system to speak of. So, this is way more better even though the post Kenny teams haven’t cut the mustard. Youth movement s keep hope (for upside) alive