Team Breakout Article

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You guys are all really kind.

The Sox have signed four players. 2 relievers, a guy who signed for less than Jorge Polanco, and a possible SP.

They came in with a bottom 3 payroll despite not being a bottom 3 market or revenue team, and they still have a bottom 3 payroll. I'm not sure how anyone can give this teams offseason a positive grade given their payroll and general investment in the roster. We are just so desperate for something good or positive...

They've lowered the bar so low, and it's somehow worked on many fans.

I think you need to separate out the payroll issue.  That’s a decision made by Jerry and caps what Getz can accomplish.  Under those constraints and understanding the context of where we are at in our rebuild, I’d call the offseason solid.  I agree that our level of payroll is an embarrassment and Jerry should be lambasted.

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Making cogent, logical arguments makes one a zombie propaganda slave. Got it. 

The fact you THINK that is what does.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Don't tell that to @Chicago White Sox's kid

They actually got me one for Christmas!  I’ll proudly be rocking it for the next two years now that my Robert jersey has joined the likes of Abreu, Ramirez, Viciedo, Peavey, Loaiza, & Jenks on the retirement shelf.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think Acuna probably deserves a shot to start, but just understanding that he's a pretty limited offensive player.

The other guys shouldn't be "given a shot" or handed a starters job anywhere. 

You don’t think Baldwin should be given a shot?

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They actually got me one for Christmas!  I’ll proudly be rocking it for the next two years now that my Robert jersey has joined the likes of Abreu, Ramirez, Viciedo, Peavey, Loaiza, & Jenks on the retirement shelf.

My daughter got me a signed Robert jersey for Christmas in 21 and it’s on my wall just kinda looking pathetic now 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Baron said:

100% right. I'm not as excited as some on here to watch Kelenic. 

Fully agree on Kelenic.  He’s getting way too much attention because he was a big name prospect at one point.  At least Acuna & Pereira haven’t had multiple years of failure at the major league level like Kelenic.  He’s a fantastic minor league deal guy, but he should have to prove himself at Charlotte before he enters the major league calculus.

[Kyyle23]

31 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Making cogent, logical arguments makes one a zombie propaganda slave. Got it. 

I think you have to stop taking criticisms of the team as a personal affront to your opinion of the team.  When i said I don’t see a team thats appreciably better, you didn’t tag me but you basically responded to what I said like I was criticizing you.  I wasn’t, it has nothing to do with you, and now we are 4 pages later and you and SS2K5 are having the same argument again.  

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think you have to stop taking criticisms of the team as a personal affront to your opinion of the team.  When i said I don’t see a team thats appreciably better, you didn’t tag me but you basically responded to what I said like I was criticizing you.  I wasn’t, it has nothing to do with you, and now we are 4 pages later and you and SS2K5 are having the same argument again.  

There it is.

[Buehrle>Wood]

6 pages and I don't think anyone ever actually posted the article.

[almagest]

6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

My daughter got me a signed Robert jersey for Christmas in 21 and it’s on my wall just kinda looking pathetic now 

I got my son one in 23. Luckily he'll outgrow it soon like he did with his Lauri Markkanen jersey

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think you need to separate out the payroll issue.  That’s a decision made by Jerry and caps what Getz can accomplish.  Under those constraints and understanding the context of where we are at in our rebuild, I’d call the offseason solid.  I agree that our level of payroll is an embarrassment and Jerry should be lambasted.

Plenty of organizations do OK without money, and plenty don't. White Sox problem is they just hired familiarity and not someone who has been exposed to and is capable of putting together a team without much money. JR wasn't going to go down that path again. He did with Himes, and didn't like Larry because Larry wanted JR to stay out of his way. He built a 94 win team with the lowest payroll in baseball and got fired because JR couldn't take credit for any of the acquisitions.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, oldsox said:

I get the feeling people here consider Acuna to be better than Baldwin. Not me.

Do they?  I fucking love Baldwin.  The big question with him is defense and long term positional home.  If he can get better in the OF corners (or ideally CF), he can be an important of the puzzle.  As for Acuna, I’m optimistic he can be good defensively in CF, but either he needs to be elite out there or the bat needs to get significantly better (which is a huge if).  I’m personally much more higher on Brooks but think we need to give both an extended run in the OF this year.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, almagest said:

I got my son one in 23. Luckily he'll outgrow it soon like he did with his Lauri Markkanen jersey

It’s like, I want a Caleb jersey but goddamn am I putting the malecky on the team!??

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do they?  I fucking love Baldwin.  The big question with him is defense and long term positional home.  If he can get better in the OF corners (or ideally CF), he can be an important of the puzzle.  As for Acuna, I’m optimistic he can be good defensively in CF, but either he needs to be elite out there or the bat needs to get significantly better (which is a huge if).  I’m personally much more higher on Brooks but think we need to give both an extended run in the OF this year.

I like Baldwin a lot too, but I do not like how they have handled him at the major league level.  It’s been very uneven playing time and not consistent at any position, and then they wonder why he looks off in the outfield sometimes.  Let the kid figure it out or the trash will take itself out 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

My daughter got me a signed Robert jersey for Christmas in 21 and it’s on my wall just kinda looking pathetic now 

In the later 10's I quit buying new ones, and instead just picked up fun ones at the Garage Sale.  The one off player jersey's are the best.

[almagest]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s like, I want a Caleb jersey but goddamn am I putting the malecky on the team!??

If Caleb starts off well next year I'd say go all in. That might also be when I pick one up.

I'm also gonna get a Murakami jersey even though it's probably a bad idea, but I also bought a Carlos Quentin jersey right before he broke his hand, so I'm used to it.

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

In the later 10's I quit buying new ones, and instead just picked up fun ones at the Garage Sale.  The one off player jersey's are the best.

I only buy jerseys if they are legends of that team. Otherwise I'm happy to rock the nameless ones.

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think you have to stop taking criticisms of the team as a personal affront to your opinion of the team.  When i said I don’t see a team thats appreciably better, you didn’t tag me but you basically responded to what I said like I was criticizing you.  I wasn’t, it has nothing to do with you, and now we are 4 pages later and you and SS2K5 are having the same argument again.  

Your comment didn't even register with me. You have pretty clear takes and they stand on their own. Somebody isn't encouraged going into this season. Great. Somebody pops in and tells me I have no self-respect because I'm enthused, and clearly tongue in cheek expressing that with the whole "Geek Squad fortifying my A key on my keyboard" joke? I get combative. I'll try to pull that back. (The combativeness). 

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I only buy jerseys if they are legends of that team. Otherwise I'm happy to rock the nameless ones.

I did a combo. Got a Ronald Belisario jersey for $20 at a season ticketholder event several years ago. Definitely a legend AND a one off.

Edited 1 hour ago by Dick Allen

[DoUEvenShift]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

In the later 10's I quit buying new ones, and instead just picked up fun ones at the Garage Sale.  The one off player jersey's are the best.

I'll continue to wear my Mercedes jersey forever

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

I'll continue to wear my Mercedes jersey forever

I have a spring training one of his, but only because it was the year of my birth.

[Baron]

My Chris Sale Jersey is stil wearable I guess. But my Adam Eaton one remains at the back of the closet. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What don't you understand about my position?

I believe in investing in the bullpen as the last step of roster development. Not as it being the lynch pin of an off-season for a team who's lost 100+ games repeatedly.

How did we perform against our Expected W-L last year and how much of that variance was driven by a poor bullpen?  You claim you want to win games, but the fastest way to radically improve our record with limited investment is probably improving the bullpen.  And don’t get me wrong, I’m generally aligned with your views on bullpen investment, but we’re talking about one or two dudes who make a combined $15M or so.  And one of those guys is intended to be the closer and can be flipped in the likely event we aren’t in the playoff mix come July.

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How did we perform against our Expected W-L last year and how much of that variance was driven by a poor bullpen?  You claim you want to win games, but the fastest way to radically improve our record with limited investment is probably improving the bullpen.  And don’t get me wrong, I’m generally aligned with your views on bullpen investment, but we’re talking about one or two dudes who make a combined $15M or so.  And one of those guys is intended to be the closer and can be flipped in the likely event we aren’t in the playoff mix come July.

I agree w/ you on most of this, but I'd bet if we looked into the trade results each time it happened, Ray Ray is right that these "sign a guy to flip him" trades rarely if ever work out. The best case is probably the Vargas trade.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

54 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You don’t think Baldwin should be given a shot?

To start in the big leagues at the beginning of this season? Of course not. In 450 career at bats he's a negative player who has been a butcher defensively. He had an xwOBA of 307 last year while being a liability in the field.

At most he should be playing himself into paying time as a utility player who can cover IF and OF spots.