White Sox acquired RHPs Jordan Hicks and David Sandlin from BOS

[Snopek]

TL;DR

”Getz should never have been hired as GM”

”True, but he was”

”But he shouldn’t have been”

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, T R U said:

You're right, he wasn't. I have no choice but to hope he works out, doesn't mean I can't be critical of the decision making that led us here. 

Have I ever said you cant be critical ? I have said open your eyes thats  all just as you asked me to keep in mind the team was at the bottom in 2024 and take 2025 with a grain of salt and I assured you that I took that into consideration. 

Edited February 3 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, Lukakke Appling said:

 

This lack of self awareness is something else. 

It really is.  Despite ignoring someone's personal attacks for years, it still happens.  Hopefully this drops, but I doubt it.  Either way, I tried.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, T R U said:

The point is, this organization had cratered and the proper thing to do at that point was clean house and do an actual search to bring in the right people to get the ship headed in the right direction. 

I really don't think that's unfair at all. It's unfair to the fanbase more than anything. 

So you think we should have fired Shirley as well?

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you think we should have fired Shirley as well?

The funny thing we don't even know that Shirley is still here because Getz wants him, or because his contract hasn't run out yet, since Jerry still isn't giving him the keys to the organization fully.  He still is facing the same things that took down the last administration in the form of little handcuffs from ownership.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, T R U said:

Im not accusing anybody of wanting Getz to be the GM, I am just generally speaking that when you have a failed rebuild it is incredible rare that you hire from within to lead the next rebuild.

Oh no doubt about it.  The process that led to Getz’s hire is the definition of insanity.  I’m just arguing against the idea he should have automatically been fired from his past role because the function he led wasn’t productive.  He may have had all the ideas in the world on how to fix it and was told no (and we know for a fact this is true to some extent) because KW & Hahn wanted to spend the money on another reliever or UT guy.

[T R U]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you think we should have fired Shirley as well?

Yes, if it was me I would have fired everyone and completely started over with an entire new baseball operation. That's what you do when you have a total organizational failure. This sometimes, unfortunately, means that good people get let go. At the very least, you hire an outside guy to run the show and let them decide who they want to stick around. I just would never have promoted from within given how poorly every aspect of the organization was running.

Now, lets say in an alternate universe the Sox were an 85+ win team consistently and just kept falling short of getting over the hump, I could at least understand if Hahn was let go or resigned and they promoted someone like Getz into the GM. 

Even though I understand your side of this, I find it hard to believe that Chris Getz was handcuffed in his previous role and not really in charge. This seems like an argument made from total assumption, and I don't think there is any proof to say its the case. I am sure there have been plenty of people in this organization that had a good, forward thinking idea that was shot down. This includes KW and Hahn, the problem is the man who cuts the checks. That man took the shortcut route of just making a convenient hire instead of doing his due diligence to back up what he says to his fanbase. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Oh no doubt about it.  The process that led to Getz’s hire is the definition of insanity.  I’m just arguing against the idea he should have automatically been fired from his past role because the function he led wasn’t productive.  He may have had all the ideas in the world on how to fix it and was told no (and we know for a fact this is true to some extent) because KW & Hahn wanted to spend the money on another reliever or UT guy.

And before that in Dec 2014 traded Semien and Bassitt for 1 year of Samardzija.

Then after Samardzija failed they doubled down with Tatis for Shield in June 2016. 

Then a mere 6 months years later figured maybe we wouldve been better off not trading our youth for pitchers. 

So they rebuild.

But instead of selling off our good players for SS's or drafting  more HS players ,who did we get ? Cease, Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, Vaughn, Burger, Collins, Madrigal. Not a lot of athletes in that group.

2020 was Crochet.

It wasnt until 2021 that they took Montgomery which was Getz 1st year as Asst. GM .

 

Edited February 3 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

33 minutes ago, T R U said:

Yes, if it was me I would have fired everyone and completely started over with an entire new baseball operation. That's what you do when you have a total organizational failure. This sometimes, unfortunately, means that good people get let go. At the very least, you hire an outside guy to run the show and let them decide who they want to stick around. I just would never have promoted from within given how poorly every aspect of the organization was running.

Now, lets say in an alternate universe the Sox were an 85+ win team consistently and just kept falling short of getting over the hump, I could at least understand if Hahn was let go or resigned and they promoted someone like Getz into the GM. 

Even though I understand your side of this, I find it hard to believe that Chris Getz was handcuffed in his previous role and not really in charge. This seems like an argument made from total assumption, and I don't think there is any proof to say its the case. I am sure there have been plenty of people in this organization that had a good, forward thinking idea that was shot down. This includes KW and Hahn, the problem is the man who cuts the checks. That man took the shortcut route of just making a convenient hire instead of doing his due diligence to back up what he says to his fanbase. 

I think some of the proof about Getz being handcuffed are the drastic changes he has made to the entire organization and structure. I have no idea if he is right or if he will be successful but the changes means he clearly did not like the way things were done before and wasnt allowed make those changes in his previous position.

[Jake]

Law said the system isn't as good as you would think it would be based on how good the top of the system is. He said Getz appears to be doing everything right, hiring the right people, investing in the right processes. However, he said before he fully buys in on the "new" White Sox organization he wants to see the team have more cases of the organization turning non-prospects into prospects. I watched it and did not see it as much of a criticism but rather Law trying to be evenhanded about how he really likes the big names in the system but also that he seems to think those guys are more examples of good scouting than good development. He thinks the Sox have something to prove for the latter, which I think is fair to say even if you're a Chris Getz enthusiast. Those things tend to take time to really pay off.

FWIW, I really opposed the hiring of Getz for all the obvious reasons most of you did. It wasn't at all clear that he distinguished himself in his previous job and even if he had, the process that led to his hiring was indefensible. That said, this is the team I root for and I'll try to just take things as they are.

It's easier to see now how Getz got the job...he frankly seems less of a baseball man and more of an executive. I suspect he played the organization's internal politics really well. And he had a message Jerry liked to hear: the Sox won't win because you hired a singular baseball expert in the form of Kenny Williams or whoever else, but rather the Sox will win because you build the organization like you build any billion dollar business. Yes smart leadership but also good, durable infrastructure and excellent middle management.

And from my perspective, the fact he convinced Jerry to invest in the organization itself is a good sign. It seems to me that Hahn-world did and does grumble that Jerry didn't give him the resources to succeed because of his disinterest in investing in long-term things like player development. Well, Getz convinced him to do it. It came at a hell of a cost and with unknown results. But he did it. And Getz has also managed to avoid almost all nepotism hiring that infected the previous administrations. So the worry I and many had that Getz represented a continuation of the old regime seems misplaced. It feels almost like Getz had an outsider view all along and was trying to do his job while fully aware that the Sox were not run like the good teams were.

Again, he seems like a true executive — I am not the mastermind, I am going to surround myself with as much talent as possible and try to put it to good use. We have some instances where it seems like people with genuine alternatives chose the Sox over equal or better ones. So again Getz is good at some combination of politics and organizational leadership because he has these outsiders buying in.

Maybe it all comes crumbling down later and it turns out to just be that Getz is good at talking a big game. We shall see. To the extent we can evaluate his baseball decisions so far, there's been a mixture of good and bad even if the jury is technically out on everything. I am cautiously optimistic, at least about whether the team will find its way out of last place in the nearish future and have some players worth rooting for.

[southsider2k5]

59 minutes ago, T R U said:

Yes, if it was me I would have fired everyone and completely started over with an entire new baseball operation. That's what you do when you have a total organizational failure. This sometimes, unfortunately, means that good people get let go. At the very least, you hire an outside guy to run the show and let them decide who they want to stick around. I just would never have promoted from within given how poorly every aspect of the organization was running.

Now, lets say in an alternate universe the Sox were an 85+ win team consistently and just kept falling short of getting over the hump, I could at least understand if Hahn was let go or resigned and they promoted someone like Getz into the GM. 

Even though I understand your side of this, I find it hard to believe that Chris Getz was handcuffed in his previous role and not really in charge. This seems like an argument made from total assumption, and I don't think there is any proof to say its the case. I am sure there have been plenty of people in this organization that had a good, forward thinking idea that was shot down. This includes KW and Hahn, the problem is the man who cuts the checks. That man took the shortcut route of just making a convenient hire instead of doing his due diligence to back up what he says to his fanbase. 

Chris, in interviews in his previous role, praised that group for how much freedom he got.

[Chicago White Sox]

50 minutes ago, T R U said:

Yes, if it was me I would have fired everyone and completely started over with an entire new baseball operation. That's what you do when you have a total organizational failure. This sometimes, unfortunately, means that good people get let go. At the very least, you hire an outside guy to run the show and let them decide who they want to stick around. I just would never have promoted from within given how poorly every aspect of the organization was running.

Now, lets say in an alternate universe the Sox were an 85+ win team consistently and just kept falling short of getting over the hump, I could at least understand if Hahn was let go or resigned and they promoted someone like Getz into the GM. 

Even though I understand your side of this, I find it hard to believe that Chris Getz was handcuffed in his previous role and not really in charge. This seems like an argument made from total assumption, and I don't think there is any proof to say it’s the case. I am sure there have been plenty of people in this organization that had a good, forward thinking idea that was shot down. This includes KW and Hahn, the problem is the man who cuts the checks. That man took the shortcut route of just making a convenient hire instead of doing his due diligence to back up what he says to his fanbase. 

To be clear, I’m not justifying the decision to promote Getz to GM.  The process was terrible and involved no other candidates or interviews.  And I was 100% in favor of the new GM being an outside hire at the time.  I think that’s a fair stance to take when the org is completely broken.  I’m just arguing that Getz shouldn’t have automatically been fired as the head of Player Development because of the function’s lack of success.  No organization fires everyone when the top decision maker is replaced…that’s just not based in any form or reality.  That doesn’t mean he should have been retained in that capacity either.  The new GM should have done his own assessment of the org and determined who was competent and who wasn’t.  That being said, we know with certainty that Getz was partially constrained on resources because he immediately invested in technology (Trajekt, Hawk-eye, etc) that would helped his previous role the second he became GM.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Chris, in interviews in his previous role, praised that group for how much freedom he got.

Not being micro managed by your pass is not the same as not being given the resources needed to be successful.

[Jake]

On 2/2/2026 at 2:56 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

Just that elder millennial style that was fresh 20 years ago and now just comes across as trying way too hard.

 

 

Yea, not only is this over the top, it's factually wrong as well. Sosa is nothing like Leury as a player and if the Sox had more 1.5 WAR types instead of replacement level or worse FA signings maybe Hahn is still in charge.

I am also irked by the comparison between Leury and Lenyn. They are just two players who are not superstars and that's about as far as the comparisons go. Totally different types of players and I think the end of Leury's run has made people forget that he was pretty useful for a while. But even the most useful versions of those two players are completely different. Lenyn has become a bat-first player with adequate fielding (when things are going good) whereas Leury was a glove and speed guy first and foremost and it was just a question of whether he could slap his way into enough production to keep the versatility afloat.

[T R U]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To be clear, I’m not justifying the decision to promote Getz to GM.  The process was terrible and involved no other candidates or interviews.  And I was 100% in favor of the new GM being an outside hire at the time.  I think that’s a fair stance to take when the org is completely broken.  I’m just arguing that Getz shouldn’t have automatically been fired as the head of Player Development because of the function’s lack of success.  No organization fires everyone when the top decision maker is replaced…that’s just not based in any form or reality.  That doesn’t mean he should have been retained in that capacity either.  The new GM should have done his own assessment of the org and determined who was competent and who wasn’t.  That being said, we know with certainty that Getz was partially constrained on resources because he immediately invested in technology (Trajekt, Hawk-eye, etc) that would helped his previous role the second he became GM.

I know you aren't justifying it, this is merely a forum discussion. I think too many people get caught up in "arguments" when that's not really at all what you or myself are doing here. 

When I said fire everyone, I didn't mean every single employee for the organization. Director of Player Development and Amateur Scouting Director would however be two that I would feel need to go if you went into a rebuild that failed as miserably as ours did. We don't need to pretend that the only thing wrong with the team was the acquisitions the GM made. There was definitely a lack of development and no reinforcements from the minors that contributed to this teams demise. 

[Nardiwashere]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not being micro managed by your pass is not the same as not being given the resources needed to be successful.

And its an interview.  What's he going to say?  These guys are morons, they don't let me do my job. 

 

[Snopek]

34 minutes ago, Jake said:

Law said the system isn't as good as you would think it would be based on how good the top of the system is. He said Getz appears to be doing everything right, hiring the right people, investing in the right processes. However, he said before he fully buys in on the "new" White Sox organization he wants to see the team have more cases of the organization turning non-prospects into prospects. I watched it and did not see it as much of a criticism but rather Law trying to be evenhanded about how he really likes the big names in the system but also that he seems to think those guys are more examples of good scouting than good development. He thinks the Sox have something to prove for the latter, which I think is fair to say even if you're a Chris Getz enthusiast. Those things tend to take time to really pay off.

FWIW, I really opposed the hiring of Getz for all the obvious reasons most of you did. It wasn't at all clear that he distinguished himself in his previous job and even if he had, the process that led to his hiring was indefensible. That said, this is the team I root for and I'll try to just take things as they are.

It's easier to see now how Getz got the job...he frankly seems less of a baseball man and more of an executive. I suspect he played the organization's internal politics really well. And he had a message Jerry liked to hear: the Sox won't win because you hired a singular baseball expert in the form of Kenny Williams or whoever else, but rather the Sox will win because you build the organization like you build any billion dollar business. Yes smart leadership but also good, durable infrastructure and excellent middle management.

And from my perspective, the fact he convinced Jerry to invest in the organization itself is a good sign. It seems to me that Hahn-world did and does grumble that Jerry didn't give him the resources to succeed because of his disinterest in investing in long-term things like player development. Well, Getz convinced him to do it. It came at a hell of a cost and with unknown results. But he did it. And Getz has also managed to avoid almost all nepotism hiring that infected the previous administrations. So the worry I and many had that Getz represented a continuation of the old regime seems misplaced. It feels almost like Getz had an outsider view all along and was trying to do his job while fully aware that the Sox were not run like the good teams were.

Again, he seems like a true executive — I am not the mastermind, I am going to surround myself with as much talent as possible and try to put it to good use. We have some instances where it seems like people with genuine alternatives chose the Sox over equal or better ones. So again Getz is good at some combination of politics and organizational leadership because he has these outsiders buying in.

Maybe it all comes crumbling down later and it turns out to just be that Getz is good at talking a big game. We shall see. To the extent we can evaluate his baseball decisions so far, there's been a mixture of good and bad even if the jury is technically out on everything. I am cautiously optimistic, at least about whether the team will find its way out of last place in the nearish future and have some players worth rooting for.

Great post.

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And before that in Dec 2014 traded Semien and Bassitt for 1 year of Samardzija.

Then after Samardzija failed they doubled down with Tatis for Shield in June 2016. 

Then a mere 6 months years later figured maybe we wouldve been better off not trading our youth for pitchers. 

So they rebuild.

But instead of selling off our good players for SS's or drafting  more HS players ,who did we get ? Cease, Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, Vaughn, Burger, Collins, Madrigal. Not a lot of athletes in that group.

2020 was Crochet.

It wasnt until 2021 that they took Montgomery which was Getz 1st year as Asst. GM .

 

And the thing that makes this whole argument crazy for me is that just look at the difference between Shields and Houser. 

Both times, the Sox found themselves in need of a starter. Nothing ready in house, so they had to go to the market. Hahn made the trade for Shields (who absolutely sucked then and was probably a month from a DFA) and threw in Tatis (most probably so the Padres would eat more money). Getz found himself a starter short, grabbed up Yoendrys Gomez. Waited for Adrian Houser to ask out of his contract. Snuck Gomez through waivers and fixed him. Picked up Tyler Alexander. Traded Vaughn for Civale. (Vaughn was useless to us, then.)

Not saying that Getz should be get executive of the year, but the Sox found 4th and 5th starters without cleaning out the minors. Big difference. 

 

[T R U]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And the thing that makes this whole argument crazy for me is that just look at the difference between Shields and Houser. 

Both times, the Sox found themselves in need of a starter. Nothing ready in house, so they had to go to the market. Hahn made the trade for Shields (who absolutely sucked then and was probably a month from a DFA) and threw in Tatis (most probably so the Padres would eat more money). Getz found himself a starter short, grabbed up Yoendrys Gomez. Waited for Adrian Houser to ask out of his contract. Snuck Gomez through waivers and fixed him. Picked up Tyler Alexander. Traded Vaughn for Civale. (Vaughn was useless to us, then.)

Not saying that Getz should be get executive of the year, but the Sox found 4th and 5th starters without cleaning out the minors. Big difference. 

Those are not really comparable scenarios. There is a very big difference between trying to plug a hole on a contending team and trying to plug a hole on a rebuilding team. 

There was nothing wrong with the James Shields trade at the time, but in hindsight it was absolutely horrific. 

The guys you named that Getz acquired were waiver claims, released players, or nothing trades. 

[southsider2k5]

26 minutes ago, T R U said:

I know you aren't justifying it, this is merely a forum discussion. I think too many people get caught up in "arguments" when that's not really at all what you or myself are doing here. 

When I said fire everyone, I didn't mean every single employee for the organization. Director of Player Development and Amateur Scouting Director would however be two that I would feel need to go if you went into a rebuild that failed as miserably as ours did. We don't need to pretend that the only thing wrong with the team was the acquisitions the GM made. There was definitely a lack of development and no reinforcements from the minors that contributed to this teams demise. 

Our player development was historically bad.  I don't see why it is so crazy to think that a team that failed so completely at that job, would be able to do that, and more.  But since we are still adjudicating it, here we are.

[Lukakke Appling]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And before that in Dec 2014 traded Semien and Bassitt for 1 year of Samardzija.

Then after Samardzija failed they doubled down with Tatis for Shield in June 2016. 

Then a mere 6 months years later figured maybe we wouldve been better off not trading our youth for pitchers. 

So they rebuild.

But instead of selling off our good players for SS's or drafting  more HS players ,who did we get ? Cease, Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, Vaughn, Burger, Collins, Madrigal. Not a lot of athletes in that group.

2020 was Crochet.

It wasnt until 2021 that they took Montgomery which was Getz 1st year as Asst. GM .

 

I believe 2020 was Shirley’s first year as scouting director, which is why the drafts have upticked considerably. Hostetler was awful. 

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, T R U said:

Those are not really comparable scenarios. There is a very big difference between trying to plug a hole on a contending team and trying to plug a hole on a rebuilding team. 

There was nothing wrong with the James Shields trade at the time, but in hindsight it was absolutely horrific. 

The guys you named that Getz acquired were waiver claims, released players, or nothing trades. 

Fair enough. But Shields was horrible enough that he should have been had for Erik Johnson, alone. I'd bet Hahn saw money coming back as such a big victory, he didn't really do his due diligence on the guy San Diego was asking for. 

[T R U]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Fair enough. But Shields was horrible enough that he should have been had for Erik Johnson, alone. I'd bet Hahn saw money coming back as such a big victory, he didn't really do his due diligence on the guy San Diego was asking for. 

Eh, Shields was a durable SP with a low 4 ERA. Erik Johnson was nothing and Tatis was a 17 year old who hadn't even played pro ball yet. If Tatis had flamed out, no one would even remember this trade I imagine. Well, maybe Caulfield. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Eh, Shields was a durable SP with a low 4 ERA. Erik Johnson was nothing and Tatis was a 17 year old who hadn't even played pro ball yet. If Tatis had flamed out, no one would even remember this trade I imagine. Well, maybe Caulfield. 

For my two cents, we talk about the Shields deal in terms of sending a really young unproven prospect in return for an older, low ceiling pitcher, and then even with the regime change, just did the same thing again in the Fajardo/Boozer deal.  We want to talks about making unforced errors, let's do it.  Also keep in mind that when we added Boozer, they weren't looking to try to get to the playoffs, just not getting to another historic loss season, so the trading of young players was even more absurd.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

Law said the system isn't as good as you would think it would be based on how good the top of the system is. He said Getz appears to be doing everything right, hiring the right people, investing in the right processes. However, he said before he fully buys in on the "new" White Sox organization he wants to see the team have more cases of the organization turning non-prospects into prospects. I watched it and did not see it as much of a criticism but rather Law trying to be evenhanded about how he really likes the big names in the system but also that he seems to think those guys are more examples of good scouting than good development. He thinks the Sox have something to prove for the latter, which I think is fair to say even if you're a Chris Getz enthusiast. Those things tend to take time to really pay off.

FWIW, I really opposed the hiring of Getz for all the obvious reasons most of you did. It wasn't at all clear that he distinguished himself in his previous job and even if he had, the process that led to his hiring was indefensible. That said, this is the team I root for and I'll try to just take things as they are.

It's easier to see now how Getz got the job...he frankly seems less of a baseball man and more of an executive. I suspect he played the organization's internal politics really well. And he had a message Jerry liked to hear: the Sox won't win because you hired a singular baseball expert in the form of Kenny Williams or whoever else, but rather the Sox will win because you build the organization like you build any billion dollar business. Yes smart leadership but also good, durable infrastructure and excellent middle management.

And from my perspective, the fact he convinced Jerry to invest in the organization itself is a good sign. It seems to me that Hahn-world did and does grumble that Jerry didn't give him the resources to succeed because of his disinterest in investing in long-term things like player development. Well, Getz convinced him to do it. It came at a hell of a cost and with unknown results. But he did it. And Getz has also managed to avoid almost all nepotism hiring that infected the previous administrations. So the worry I and many had that Getz represented a continuation of the old regime seems misplaced. It feels almost like Getz had an outsider view all along and was trying to do his job while fully aware that the Sox were not run like the good teams were.

Again, he seems like a true executive — I am not the mastermind, I am going to surround myself with as much talent as possible and try to put it to good use. We have some instances where it seems like people with genuine alternatives chose the Sox over equal or better ones. So again Getz is good at some combination of politics and organizational leadership because he has these outsiders buying in.

Maybe it all comes crumbling down later and it turns out to just be that Getz is good at talking a big game. We shall see. To the extent we can evaluate his baseball decisions so far, there's been a mixture of good and bad even if the jury is technically out on everything. I am cautiously optimistic, at least about whether the team will find its way out of last place in the nearish future and have some players worth rooting for.

Just want to say, what im quoting is an actual quote from the athletic under team rankings. Nothing law said on a podcast or interview.

I think your points are fine. Id argue theres been much more bad than good as it relates to his baseball moves. 

Im also just not sure what you would define as comes crumbling down? He's never not lost 100 games. To me, Getz offered Jerry what most GMs wouldnt/wont. To have a bottom 3-5 payroll in a major market if he gave Getz a few million for management and org overhaul. He traded 110 million for 5 million. 

When I say a major job of these roles is influence, I mean things like AJ Preller going to SD and convincing/motivating ownership to spend. 

Youre absolutely right in that Getz is an executive, but he's operating the Sox like a PE teardown where he's going lean on the player side to maximize ownership outcomes while selling a narrative of transformation. 

I think thats where our views diverge. Im still rooting for the team but dont understand the praise for a suit pitching a consulting transformation to copy other teams...