3 minutes ago, Ozzie for Manager said:

Yep. Just looked at that draft and Smith is by far the worst top 10 pick that year. We passed on wetherholt and griffin. Even condon who had struggled is raking and should be up any day

Just a massive pitching development failure.

We better be getting DIRTY tomorrow. I’m excited now. It’s also tough with what we had to give up… though I know nothing about Woods.

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’d rather have “The Chairman of the Board” (🤮) at 2B than in LF and in place of Meidroth. Find a massive power bat for LF.

I agree, but I'm talking about for this season. I think Sam stays in LF out of necessity. I'd rather have Jacob at 2B instead of Chase. At very least trade Jacob for a major leaguer.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Don’t agree with this guy on the batted ball data…looked pretty good to me over the last two weeks when he was our best hitter.

I also don't understand the constant bringing up of Charlotte...he was in the majors and showed something while he was here. Also mentioning that they could not develop him in 2.5 years.....wasn't this season development?

In his one at bat today Gonzalez hit an 111 mph double, so it's not all the park by any means.

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Not a fan of this argument at all. So you’re saying we would have been outraged if Oppor was in this deal, as he was the opposite of a turd fly coming into this year?

Some people also thought Colson was a turd fly early last season too....what does that have to do with anything?

I will agree, trading your 1st round pick from only 3 years ago, for this return, is kinda ass and stupid.

41 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So essentially we traded Jacob Gonzalez for a comp pick, as the two crappy relievers canceled each other out, right? Am I missing something?

The crappy reliever we got appears to be a bit more exciting than the one we gave up and doesn’t require a 40 man spot yet. He is Rule 5 eligible this fall, so if he’s any good it doesn’t really help with the roster crunch.

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Trading a player who broke out and is major league ready for a pick that we hope one day is as good as the player we traded. If we traded Gonzalez, it should be toward a controllable SP and not a draft pick that won’t help us for years and will have a high chance of busting.

That's typically how draft picks work. You hope they're good in the future. Is Roch Chowalsky good? Maybe one day. Would you trade, I dunno, a 1 WAR player for Roch? He's an unknown commodity, you know, kinda risky.

I don't understand this board's new love affair for Gonzalez. It smells like Tim Elko or Jake Burger, overrating the flavor of the month (I wish I looked at this board when Yermin was playing). I liked the pick when he got drafted (nobody else did) and didn't write him off immediately. But he isn't some star waiting in the wings, he's a middling player with no where to play on this team. He hasn't actually been good in MLB, his only professional success is 200 at bats at AAA. He's essentially a replacement level player who will be a good injury substitute for Konnor Griffin, and in two months when Griffin is back in the lineup, the Pirates will have traded a first rounder for a bench player who almost certainly won't challenge Brandon Lowe for starting 2B.

In reality, it's a major developmental W to make Gonzalez look semi-useful and get an actual asset for him. It's wise to not lay off the gas on the rebuild by trading Gonzalez for some 5 ERA starting pitcher and continuing to acquire future assets. It's pointless to have in sit on the bench or cycle between AAA and MLB and reduce his value by eating his options. Wish him good luck,

3 minutes ago, nrockway said:

That's typically how draft picks work. You hope they're good in the future. Is Roch Chowalsky good? Maybe one day. Would you trade, I dunno, a 1 WAR player for Roch? He's an unknown commodity, you know, kinda risky.

I don't understand this board's new love affair for Gonzalez. It smells like Tim Elko or Jake Burger, overrating the flavor of the month (I wish I looked at this board when Yermin was playing). I liked the pick when he got drafted (nobody else did) and didn't write him off immediately. But he isn't some star waiting in the wings, he's a middling player with no where to play on this team. He hasn't actually been good in MLB, his only professional success is 200 at bats at AAA. He's essentially a replacement level player who will be a good injury substitute for Konnor Griffin, and in two months when Griffin is back in the lineup, the Pirates will have traded a first rounder for a bench player who almost certainly won't challenge Brandon Lowe for starting 2B.

In reality, it's a major developmental W to make Gonzalez look semi-useful and get an actual asset for him. It's wise to not lay off the gas on the rebuild by trading Gonzalez for some 5 ERA starting pitcher and continuing to acquire future assets. It's pointless to have in sit on the bench or cycle between AAA and MLB and reduce his value by eating his options. Wish him good luck,

Great post

This was a good trade....for the Pirates.

1 hour ago, wegner said:

pooh

You spelled it wrong. It’s poop. You send people a flaming bag of dog poop… you don’t send a yellow fluffy bear that puts his hand in a honey pot.

6 minutes ago, nrockway said:

That's typically how draft picks work. You hope they're good in the future. Is Roch Chowalsky good? Maybe one day. Would you trade, I dunno, a 1 WAR player for Roch? He's an unknown commodity, you know, kinda risky.

I don't understand this board's new love affair for Gonzalez. It smells like Tim Elko or Jake Burger, overrating the flavor of the month (I wish I looked at this board when Yermin was playing). I liked the pick when he got drafted (nobody else did) and didn't write him off immediately. But he isn't some star waiting in the wings, he's a middling player with no where to play on this team. He hasn't actually been good in MLB, his only professional success is 200 at bats at AAA. He's essentially a replacement level player who will be a good injury substitute for Konnor Griffin, and in two months when Griffin is back in the lineup, the Pirates will have traded a first rounder for a bench player who almost certainly won't challenge Brandon Lowe for starting 2B.

In reality, it's a major developmental W to make Gonzalez look semi-useful and get an actual asset for him. It's wise to not lay off the gas on the rebuild by trading Gonzalez for some 5 ERA starting pitcher and continuing to acquire future assets. It's pointless to have in sit on the bench or cycle between AAA and MLB and reduce his value by eating his options. Wish him good luck,

He actually wasn't any good in the majors is an interesting take.

This trade is about as “we’ll see” as it gets.

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Great post

Lowe already at 3.0 bWAR

heading for 4.75-5.0

will also be an ufa in 2027

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by caulfield12

7 minutes ago, nrockway said:

That's typically how draft picks work. You hope they're good in the future. Is Roch Chowalsky good? Maybe one day. Would you trade, I dunno, a 1 WAR player for Roch? He's an unknown commodity, you know, kinda risky.

I don't understand this board's new love affair for Gonzalez. It smells like Tim Elko or Jake Burger, overrating the flavor of the month (I wish I looked at this board when Yermin was playing). I liked the pick when he got drafted (nobody else did) and didn't write him off immediately. But he isn't some star waiting in the wings, he's a middling player with no where to play on this team. He hasn't actually been good in MLB, his only professional success is 200 at bats at AAA. He's essentially a replacement level player who will be a good injury substitute for Konnor Griffin, and in two months when Griffin is back in the lineup, the Pirates will have traded a first rounder for a bench player who almost certainly won't challenge Brandon Lowe for starting 2B.

In reality, it's a major developmental W to make Gonzalez look semi-useful and get an actual asset for him. It's wise to not lay off the gas on the rebuild by trading Gonzalez for some 5 ERA starting pitcher and continuing to acquire future assets. It's pointless to have in sit on the bench or cycle between AAA and MLB and reduce his value by eating his options. Wish him good luck,

Jake burger has had a much better career than the avg 30-35th pick.

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t want to be that guy, but draft picks bust. I love Shirley and think he’s a legit star when it comes to talent evaluation, but he’s far from perfect. Look at the Hagen Smith pick (which was overslot) and what we could have taken as example (and yes, I know Getz is more so responsible for that). Do we really think a late 1st round college pitcher is a slam dunk? It’s why prospects are less valuable than proven commodities and draft picks are worth less than similarly talented prospects. That bust potential requires a discount from a valuation perspective and it just doesn’t seem to be baked into the equation here.

So do former 1st rounders who weathered two whole seasons of unremarkable minor league results until they decided to try something else.

It's not just about the pick it's also the slot money. You know all this. If this comp pick allows them to select somebody they think is a stud, that frees them up to deal from depth at that position now.

I get that you liked Gonzo. I think he's a nice story and could possibly work his way into a starting role with more at-bats.

19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’d rather have “The Chairman of the Board” (🤮) at 2B than in LF and in place of Meidroth. Find a massive power bat for LF.

You misspelled "Patches".

13 minutes ago, fathom said:

Just a massive pitching development failure.

I think Smith is more of a drafting failure: 5 inning college pitcher with a less than smooth delivery. And to then pay him over-slot.

As for this trade, it's not a great value trade. That said, I think it's pretty clear that the Sox weren't big fans of Gonzalez; heck he had to beg to be coached. (I had hope they'd take the opportunity to dump Beni, but alas). They really wanted the extra pick so they had to pay up for it.
I hope Shirley makes great use of it. But, please, no reaching (see Smith above).

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by GreenSox

7 minutes ago, hi8is said:

You spelled it wrong. It’s poop. You send people a flaming bag of dog poop… you don’t send a yellow fluffy bear that puts his hand in a honey pot.

It's actually more diabolical my friend....Pooh Bear was Getzy's favorite as a child...it will be traumatic on an epic scale.

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jake burger has had a much better career than the avg 30-35th pick.

White Sox career fWAR from 2nd and 3rd round picks has to be somewhere between 26th through 30th in mlb.

Even international has had a higher rate of return...at least until the pools were capped.

7 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

It doesn't seem to matter who makes the decisions for the Sox, but there's always a clear deficit in strategic planning. I'm not a huge Gonzales fan but the Sox need pitching without trading low on a dude like Noah. This accomplished nothing to improve our MLB pitching and makes the probability of giving up meaningful value to fill a deficit need (legit MLB pitching) while reducing our IF depth. If they had traded him for a legit quality reliever (or packaged him with someone for said RP) I would at least appreciate the need to consolation value for MLB assets.

A move like this only makes sense if you don't plan to be a buyer and you think you're selling high on a dude that's not going to produce with a longer term vision of truly competing next year after you've spent some serious cash.

I do think he is re-stocking the minors a bit after so many prospects have graduated. I also think he really believes in the guys doing the hitting development with Colson, Vargas, Antonacci (5th rd.) and Gonzalez improving quite a bit. Remember Bonemer was the 43rd pick and Fauske the 44th. Wolkow was a 7th round pick #209 and he's still 20 and making progress. McDougal was a 5th rd. pick too along with Gabe Davis and Oppor who was promising until he lost it as fast as he found it.

The draft class is considered deep among college position players and LH HS pitchers.

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

Gonzalez had no future on this team, so I'm not against trading him. But I thought it would be to help the team compete this year.

Yea, I thought we could have gotten a boost to the rotation, even if it was just a back end innings eater type for him… or could have included him in a deal for a stud.

The Sox really must have a dude in mind tomorrow.

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jake burger has had a much better career than the avg 30-35th pick.

Mentioning Elko and Burger like they were equal in value seemed odd to me.