McCarthy Traded to Texas

[Dam8610]

From what some of us have heard, yes, there is more.

 

While the reason given is frustrating to take, it makes some sense.

 

That reason being? (for those of us who are less enlightened and still extremely frustrated with this deal, such as myself)

Edited December 23, 2006 by Dam8610

[fathom]

Some interesting comments by KW about getting guys that we've wanted. There's been rumors about KW scouting the Texas farm system, especially Danks and Massett, for a few months now. With that in mind, there are two other guys that we've been rumored to "want" for a while. One is Crawford, but the timing for that doesn't seem good right now. The only guy is D. Willis.

[knightni]

This could mean that Masset will go to the BP, and there could be open tryouts for the 5th spot.

 

Dammit.

[Flash Tizzle]

Indeed, wrong.

It has to be one of the following:

 

-injured

-threat of injury

-attitude

 

I don't need to know now, but I figure it'll come out at some point. Perhaps if there's anything to Guillen disliking him McCarthy can spill it out during the Rangers press conference.

[Balta1701]

So, you know what's bothering me about this deal? It's the upside/downside ratio.

 

In the Garcia deal, the potential upside was pretty big. We got 2 upper-minor-league, high draft level pitching prospects, one a righty and one a lefty. Because they're prospects, there is still a big risk, but there is a potentially very high upside. On top of that, we also saved $9 million next year.

 

Here, similarly, there is a potentially high upside. 3 pitching prospects, 2 fairly high caliber ones and a throw-in.

 

However, the potential downsides in both deals are wildly divergent. In the Garcia deal, the potential downside is we lose Freddy Garcia for 1 year, and lose a couple of compensatory draft picks. If Garcia had a good year for us, there would be no chance of us resigning him, and if Garcia was cheap enough for us to resign, he'd have had such a bad year we wouldn't want him. The potential downside of that deal was missing 1 year of Garcia.

 

Here however, the potential downside is far, far higher. We lose out on McCarthy for around 5 years, instead of 1. The potential upside of 5 years of Brandon >>>>> the potential upside of 1 year of Freddy Garcia.

 

If Garcia came out next year and pitched like a Cy Young award winner, we'd have lost him anyway. If Bmac came out and pitched like a Cy Young award winner, we'd have 4 more years of him. And to my eyes, we basically traded each of them for a similar price; one potentially very good left handed starter, and a righty. And unlike the Garcia deal, the McCarthy deal doesn't save us any money.

 

On paper, I really don't like this deal. Even if McCarthy winds up a failure in Texas, which I highly doubt, I can't help but think we could have gotten more, a lot more, for Brandon this offseason. Hell, we supposedly almost dealt him straight up for Soriano and Griffey in each of the last 2 years.

 

Even if the concept of stockpiling young arms is right, and everything works out, Danks succeeds, Haeger succeeds, the Sox wind up winners, I still think this is a bad deal.

[alk3kevin]

So since we are going to be trotting out a jv rotation next year, why don't we just move the team to Montreal to make the White Sox a complete bush league team.

Yeah, as opposed to this year when our entire staff was complete garbage.

 

Settle down people, I like the depth of the pitching a hell of a lot more than when we had five veterans with unimpressive stuff. We have plenty of "stuff" and innings guys in the system now, and we can either deal the veterans for more young players or flip the prospects in the package for a hitter.

[southsideirish71]

Yeah, as opposed to this year when our entire staff was complete garbage.

 

Settle down people, I like the depth of the pitching a hell of a lot more than when we had five veterans with unimpressive stuff. We have plenty of "stuff" and innings guys in the system now, and we can either deal the veterans for more young players or flip the prospects in the package for a hitter.

 

Yeah, we really need to deal for a hitter and run out medicore pitching. Because the 01-04 Whitesox won many a division crown.

 

Stuff guys, outside of Danks and Gio now. Who are these stuff guys.

[Balta1701]

Stuff guys, outside of Danks and Gio now. Who are these stuff guys.

Gavin Floyd absolutely falls into the category of a "Stuff guy", in that he has the potential and stuff to be a very dominant pitcher. That's how he wound up as a #4 draft pick.

 

But, the problem is, not all "Stuff" guys wind up succeeding in the big leagues.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Yeah, as opposed to this year when our entire staff was complete garbage.

 

Settle down people, I like the depth of the pitching a hell of a lot more than when we had five veterans with unimpressive stuff. We have plenty of "stuff" and innings guys in the system now, and we can either deal the veterans for more young players or flip the prospects in the package for a hitter.

 

 

While 06 largely sucked, that staff won a World Series and 05 and could not have deteriorated that much. I hate the idea needing 8 runs to win when we trot at guy with "stuff" like Gavin Floyd out on the hill every five days. Doug Drabek and Danny Darwin were innings guys in '97. Yet the 97 season sucked. "Stuff" and "innings" does not mean much.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Greg The Bull Luzinski

[alk3kevin]

Yeah, we really need to deal for a hitter and run out medicore pitching. Because the 01-04 Whitesox won many a division crown.

Last season, we had mediocre pitching and some horrible hitters in the lineup(Pods, Uribe, Anderson, AJ for half the year) and still could have won the division.

 

If this is your reaction now, I can't wait until we trade/let walk the rest of the starters in the next few years.

[Balta1701]

If this is your reaction now, I can't wait until we trade/let walk the rest of the starters in the next few years.

I would have been happier had any other pitcher in our rotation been included in this deal instead of McCarthy.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Last season, we had mediocre pitching and some horrible hitters in the lineup(Pods, Uribe, Anderson, AJ for half the year) and still could have won the division.

 

If this is your reaction now, I can't wait until we trade/let walk the rest of the starters in the next few years.

 

If this is the basis for an argument, all the more reason for people to be upset. BMac is the farthest from being able to walk.

[DBAHO]

Honestly I just don't understand this deal.

 

I'm a big fan of John Danks. But did I want to acquire him for B-Mac? No, absolutely not.

 

B-Mac should have the been the one SP in our rotation who was untouchable. 5 years of service time still left, compared to 1 year for Buehrle, 2 years for Garland etc.

 

We should have at least tried to get Hurley and Danks here.

[southsideirish71]

Last season, we had mediocre pitching and some horrible hitters in the lineup(Pods, Uribe, Anderson, AJ for half the year) and still could have won the division.

 

If this is your reaction now, I can't wait until we trade/let walk the rest of the starters in the next few years.

 

I dont mind getting rid of our guys who will be expensive and hard to nut up for a contract. Send them away, and get us good guys. I was very much for the Garland for Hirsch and et al prospects a few weeks back. I am however, against trading our young cheap guys who are ready to plug into the rotation. This goes against everything that we are supposedly doing.

 

And the horrible hitters last year, dont get me started on that. This is not the first year, nor probably the last year of the softball offense. This is more of an approach by our team as a whole, and due to the falling in love with the dong and the homer park factor. Homers happen at our park, you dont need to change your approach to make them happen. I dont care whatever guy you bring here, they will try and hit dongs. Its just the way we do things here. If our guys last year tried to hit a single with a man on 2nd and 1 out instead of trying to hit the dramatic dong we would of probably plated a few more runs in the 2nd half.

[Chisoxfn]

That's the best idea I've read. Sox should offer one year, $20 million. Kenny Williams says they have plenty of money to make a move, just he didn't want to. It would make this trade look a helluva lot better...

That would be an outstanding move. Plus its a great guy to have around the Sox young arms.

[Balta1701]

So, given that at least to my eyes, this is the first deal that we've done that does not have any hope of making us better in 2007, but instead is almost certain to weaken the White Sox in 2007, does anyone think Kenny may now be slightly more willing to weaken the Sox in 07 by dealing some of the other guys who hit FA next offseason?

[spiderman]

Danks split last season between Double-A Frisco and Triple-A Oklahoma, where he combined to go 9-9 with a 4.24 ERA in 27 games (26 starts). He has a career minor league record of 21-30 with a 4.20 ERA in 92 games (82 starts).

 

Question:

Did Danks pitch in pitcher friendly parks ???

[Balta1701]

That would be an outstanding move. Plus its a great guy to have around the Sox young arms.

The White Sox have plenty of veteran guys around their young arms right now.

 

Edit: if anything, we could use a veteran type guy in the bullpen, because that's the area we sure don't have one. Anyone else remember how much Hermanson helped Jenks along 2 years ago after Dustin got hurt?

Edited December 24, 2006 by Balta1701

[Wealz]

While 06 largely sucked, that staff won a World Series and 05 and could not have deteriorated that much.

 

Why not? It's probable that the "window of opportunity" for that staff to win it all was the 2005 season and the 2005 season alone.

[southsideirish71]

So, given that at least to my eyes, this is the first deal that we've done that does not have any hope of making us better in 2007, but instead is almost certain to weaken the White Sox in 2007, does anyone think Kenny may now be slightly more willing to weaken the Sox in 07 by dealing some of the other guys who hit FA next offseason?

 

You bring up a very good point. We have Dye who if he has a similar season will get paid well, especially in the AL. So what praytell are they doing there. Buerhle is going to make good bank for a long time.

[Balta1701]

You bring up a very good point. We have Dye who if he has a similar season will get paid well, especially in the AL. So what praytell are they doing there. Buerhle is going to make good bank for a long time.

To my eyes, if you're willing to back off the accelerator in 2007 by trading away McCarthy and going with Haeger/ST contest winner as your 5th starter, then you may as well take the added step and try to get someone to bite on Buehrle or Dye as well.

 

I would almost guarantee you the Dodgers would take a flyer on Dye for a pretty big deal right now, and they have the talent to make it work.

[EvilMonkey]

As it stands now, aren't we only down one starter vs. last year? Why is this such a big deal (short term)?

Edited December 24, 2006 by EvilMonkey

[southsideirish71]

Why not? It's probable that the "window of opportunity" for that staff to win it all was the 2005 season and the 2005 season alone.

 

You dont trade for Thome if you believe that 2005 was a one shot in the dark. You trade for a Thome because you think you can win it all again.

 

 

 

As it stands now, aren't we only down one starter vs. last year? Why is this such a big deal (short term)?

 

In 2004 we were also down one starter also. That cost us the division, mind you in a bad AL Central.

[EvilMonkey]

You dont trade for Thome if you believe that 2005 was a one shot in the dark. You trade for a Thome because you think you can win it all again.

In 2004 we were also down one starter also. That cost us the division, mind you in a bad AL Central.

But we have like seven people that could take that spot. Or there could be another trade. Or a FA?

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

You dont trade for Thome if you believe that 2005 was a one shot in the dark. You trade for a Thome because you think you can win it all again.

 

On the other side, IMO Ozzie does not strike me as a good patient rebuilding type manager.