Crede likely to start on opening day

[southsidehawkeye]

Hey All, Long time reader... first time poster! (i figured this year I would actually try to join the conversation)

 

Although I really like Crede, and think that he brings a very important glove to the hot corner (which undeniably helps our team a lot... and was a big part of our World Series run) I am very worried about what him staying here will do to Fields (who is almost surely our future at 3B).

 

Fields has shown he is ready to be in the big leagues, he had a great season last year and needs to stay in the major leagues. I believe this not only because moving a young player down to AAA after a great rookie year and a good spring could have a negative approach on his mental game, he might get frustrated and that can seriously hurt his career. But also I am not really convinced that going down to AAA will help him any. Think of when we were all learning to play sports, you get better by facing people who are on your level or better than you. When you're in Field's position you probably wont get better at hitting a Major League curve or learning to take a nasty slider by seeing AAA pitching... he needs time in the bigs to improve in these areas, and this is shown by loads of really, really good prospects who struggle a little when the make that final jump but just need some time to learn the ropes of the big leagues.

 

The only place I think Fields would benefit from some more time at AAA is his defense. He really isn't up to par yet in this area (at least not for Chicago, where we have watched Crede work that corner to an art form the over the last few years). But I think he is serviceable at 3rd, and he will probably improve with time, especially considering how good an overall athlete he is/has been in the past.

 

Anyways, Im sure that all of this has been said before and Im not really adding anything new. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

 

 

 

on a side note: I am getting really excited for baseball to "officially" start. I think the sox could surprise some people this year!

Edited March 23, 2008 by southsidehawkeye

[knightni]

Hey All, Long time reader... first time poster! (i figured this year I would actually try to join the conversation)

 

. . .

 

Anyways, Im sure that all of this has been said before and Im not really adding anything new. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

on a side note: I am getting really excited for baseball to "officially" start. I think the sox could surprise some people this year!

 

 

Welcome to Soxtalk!

[nitetrain8601]

Welcome to Soxtalk first and foremost. With that said, I think Josh should get that one guy who tutored Crede on how to play 3B in the minors. That one hot prospect who couldn't hit but was one of the slickest fielders that never played the game.

[southsider2k5]

Hey All, Long time reader... first time poster! (i figured this year I would actually try to join the conversation)

 

Although I really like Crede, and think that he brings a very important glove to the hot corner (which undeniably helps our team a lot... and was a big part of our World Series run) I am very worried about what him staying here will do to Fields (who is almost surely our future at 3B).

 

Fields has shown he is ready to be in the big leagues, he had a great season last year and needs to stay in the major leagues. I believe this not only because moving a young player down to AAA after a great rookie year and a good spring could have a negative approach on his mental game, he might get frustrated and that can seriously hurt his career. But also I am not really convinced that going down to AAA will help him any. Think of when we were all learning to play sports, you get better by facing people who are on your level or better than you. When you're in Field's position you probably wont get better at hitting a Major League curve or learning to take a nasty slider by seeing AAA pitching... he needs time in the bigs to improve in these areas, and this is shown by loads of really, really good prospects who struggle a little when the make that final jump but just need some time to learn the ropes of the big leagues.

 

The only place I think Fields would benefit from some more time at AAA is his defense. He really isn't up to par yet in this area (at least not for Chicago, where we have watched Crede work that corner to an art form the over the last few years). But I think he is serviceable at 3rd, and he will probably improve with time, especially considering how good an overall athlete he is/has been in the past.

 

Anyways, Im sure that all of this has been said before and Im not really adding anything new. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

on a side note: I am getting really excited for baseball to "officially" start. I think the sox could surprise some people this year!

 

Welcome to Soxtalk

[harfman77]

The only chance KW has of making a trade is to trade Fields, Crede has less value now than Gooch did last season at the deadline. I think it would be fine if Richar, ramirez, and Fields got some work in AAA to start the season as they are likely 3/4 of the Sox IF next season. Then if Crede hits he gets traded, if not he is benched and Fields is brought up.

[elrockinMT]

I do not know if people realize this, but if Fields spends and wastes this year at AAA, that could really f*** up his career. He needs to get MLB AB's, and he needs to start from opening day, period.

 

 

I disagree. Why would working on your weaknesses be a waste of time. Josh needs to learn to field his position better and cut down on his K's. What I would like to see in a perfect Sox world is for him to learn another position and Joe C be signed to an extension.

[nitetrain8601]

I disagree. Why would working on your weaknesses be a waste of time. Josh needs to learn to field his position better and cut down on his K's. What I would like to see in a perfect Sox world is for him to learn another position and Joe C be signed to an extension.

 

Bingo, his power is nice and all, but this team needs more defense, especially with our 3-4-5 pitchers out there. Heck, Buehrle relies on good defense as well. I think people are underrating how important defense is to have out there which is how we ended up with the 2000-2004 teams.

[greg775]

If they keep Crede, I think it's just a distraction to the team until something happens.

 

Why would it be a distraction to have a World Series winning third baseman continue

to be on the team?

I do agree Fields being in the minors is a bad idea.

We probably should have kept Fields in the outfield and never acquired Swish.

[almagest]

Bingo, his power is nice and all, but this team needs more defense, especially with our 3-4-5 pitchers out there. Heck, Buehrle relies on good defense as well. I think people are underrating how important defense is to have out there which is how we ended up with the 2000-2004 teams.

 

We won 95 games in 2000. From '01 - '04 the problem wasn't defense, it was a bad rotation and a bad bullpen. I think you're overrating defense a bit, especially at third base. Up the middle defense matters far more than the corners.

[Dick Allen]

I want Crede to play 3rd, but I really feel KW will unload him this week. He doesn't want to send Fields down, other teams offering not much figure that as well, and KW is holding out, but I think he will settle for garbage for Crede. I hope I'm wrong because I think that's a mistake.

[YASNY]

We won 95 games in 2000. From '01 - '04 the problem wasn't defense, it was a bad rotation and a bad bullpen. I think you're overrating defense a bit, especially at third base. Up the middle defense matters far more than the corners.

 

A defensive play that prevents a 2 out bases loaded double is just as effective as a 2 out bases loaded double with the stick. Never realized that defense could be overrated.

[Kyyle23]

Why would it be a distraction to have a World Series winning third baseman continue

to be on the team?

I do agree Fields being in the minors is a bad idea.

.

 

So by this reasoning we should get Carl Everett, Willie Harris, Timo Perez, Neal Cotts, El Duque, and Cliff Politte all back on the team because they are world series winning players, right?

 

We probably should have kept Fields in the outfield and never acquired Swish

 

what a bad idea

Edited March 24, 2008 by kyyle23

[almagest]

A defensive play that prevents a 2 out bases loaded double is just as effective as a 2 out bases loaded double with the stick. Never realized that defense could be overrated.

 

A pitcher has WAY more control over that bases loaded double than a fielder does. Great defense is seldom going to save poor pitching, and great pitching seldom needs to rely on great defense. I'm not saying having good defensive players isn't needed, I'm questioning the logic of having no-hit, good fielding players anywhere NEAR the starting lineup. Crede fits these criteria, based on last year, this spring, and a good chunk of his career.

[Dick Allen]

A pitcher has WAY more control over that bases loaded double than a fielder does. Great defense is seldom going to save poor pitching, and great pitching seldom needs to rely on great defense. I'm not saying having good defensive players isn't needed, I'm questioning the logic of having no-hit, good fielding players anywhere NEAR the starting lineup. Crede fits these criteria, based on last year, this spring, and a good chunk of his career.

Did you happen to see the pop up Ramirez let drop yesterday? Cost the team 2 runs. Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers in 2006. He was hitting over .300 with 28 homers in August when his back locked up worse than normal. He's healthy now. No hit is not a good description.

[Hatchetman]

pitchers have no control (well, very little) on whether a ball in play results in a hit or an out.

[Balta1701]

Did you happen to see the pop up Ramirez let drop yesterday? Cost the team 2 runs. Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers in 2006. He was hitting over .300 with 28 homers in August when his back locked up worse than normal. He's healthy now. No hit is not a good description.

ut

I really hope you're going to be proven right, but no hit Crede is a pretty accurate description of his performance this spring so far. He wouldn't be the first player to suck during ST and turn it on when April hits, but you can count me amongst the "Concerned" right now.

[almagest]

Did you happen to see the pop up Ramirez let drop yesterday? Cost the team 2 runs. Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers in 2006. He was hitting over .300 with 28 homers in August when his back locked up worse than normal. He's healthy now. No hit is not a good description.

 

And how many runs has Ramirez scored or driven in this spring? Probably more than 2. Also, the pitcher is the person who has control over the batters before and after the error occurred, not Ramirez. Do you have anything else that's substantial, or just this one piece of anecdotal evidence?

 

Crede sure has looked good being so healthy this spring, hasn't he? Can the Sox afford to wait until he's got his "timing" back, which stunts Fields' growth at the ML level, and with no guarantee Crede'll be able to put up numbers near his 2006 campaign?

Also, hasn't Crede played in more than ONE major league season? And wasn't he spectacularly mediocre in those seasons? Why are you ignoring the rest of his career, then? Selectively pulling data that only supports your points doesn't make Crede a good hitter. It makes him a mediocre hitter with one good season, two years ago.

 

pitchers have no control (well, very little) on whether a ball in play results in a hit or an out.

 

Which is why strikeouts are so valuable. Also, while it's true that pitchers have little control on a ball after it's in play, they DO have a good deal of control over where and how it's hit.

Edited March 24, 2008 by almagest

[Dick Allen]

And how many runs has Ramirez scored or driven in this spring? Probably more than 2. Also, the pitcher is the person who has control over the batters before and after the error occurred, not Ramirez. Do you have anything else that's substantial, or just this one piece of anecdotal evidence?

 

Crede sure has looked good being so healthy this spring, hasn't he? Can the Sox afford to wait until he's got his "timing" back, which stunts Fields' growth at the ML level, and with no guarantee Crede'll be able to put up numbers near his 2006 campaign?

Also, hasn't Crede played in more than ONE major league season? And wasn't he spectacularly mediocre in those seasons? Why are you ignoring the rest of his career, then? Selectively pulling data that only supports your points doesn't make Crede a good hitter. It makes him a mediocre hitter with one good season, two years ago.

Which is why strikeouts are so valuable. Also, while it's true that pitchers have little control on a ball after it's in play, they DO have a good deal of control over where and how it's hit.

I'm just pointing out that defense is critical. BTW, does Pablo Ozuna look a lot bigger and stronger this year to anyone but me?

[lvjeremylv]

pitchers have no control (well, very little) on whether a ball in play results in a hit or an out.

Spoken like someone who knows very little about pitching. Trying to get a batter out is a psychological game just as much as a physical game. Both are trying to guess what the other is thinking, and if the pitcher has done his homework on a hitter and sticks to the game plan, he's going to dictate everything while that hitter is in the batters box.

 

When a pitcher has a plan and is able to throw the ball in the manner and location he wants, there's very little most hitters are going to be able to do. They might put the ball in play, but will do so weakly and ineffectively.

 

Obviously errors and bad plays can muck everything up, but to suggest once the ball is thrown it's completely out of the pitchers' hands is incorrect.

[sf_soxfan]

Frandsen just ruptured his achilles tendon (ouch), makes the Giants short one more infielder.

[lostfan]

once the ball is thrown it's completely out of the pitchers' hands is incorrect.

Well, you know, technically it is...

[lvjeremylv]

Well, you know, technically it is...

Good call.

[greg775]

Did you happen to see the pop up Ramirez let drop yesterday? Cost the team 2 runs. Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers in 2006. He was hitting over .300 with 28 homers in August when his back locked up worse than normal. He's healthy now. No hit is not a good description.

 

Great post!

I have a feeling the internet community is harder on Crede than Sox fans who

will be in the stands on Opening Day. They will cheer wildly for Joe.

The guy is a defensive whiz.

Internet fans tend to hate on their own WAY too much.

Like Jon. We're gonna miss him, folks.

Jon ate up innings and was a helluva pitcher.

I wish Danks and Floyd and Jose well ... but they ain't no Garland!

[BearSox]

Did you happen to see the pop up Ramirez let drop yesterday? Cost the team 2 runs. Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers in 2006. He was hitting over .300 with 28 homers in August when his back locked up worse than normal. He's healthy now. No hit is not a good description.

oh come on, are you being serious about that pop up? That ball was in no-man's land. You can't blame anyone for that.

[witesoxfan]

I'm not reading this entire thread, but it's been sitting here for a while. A few thoughts...

 

1) If Crede is traded, I imagine it will be for someone who is serviceable. Not good, probably not mediocre, but someone who will do something for the Sox. Cheat mentioned Eugenio Velez on his blog a couple weeks ago, and I could see that as a distinct possibility.

2) Fields spending time in AAA wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for his development; the kid can't hit a meat fastball yet, so spending some time in AAA working on hitting those wouldn't hurt. In fact, it might be a good thing, and he might develop a bit of plate recognition, hit .270, and walk 70-80 times a year. If he does that, he's an All Star.

3) Fields will likely be called up for 15-20 games or so before June, so it's not like he'd spend all year in AAA. He'll almost assuredly get 200-300 PAs this year, because really, if Crede or Thome goes down, Fields will be the first called up and both of those scenarios are very, very likely. It's also likely Crede will be traded before July, so that would increase his PAs.

4) The old saying goes that you can't win the division in April, but you can lose it. I see Crede as a potential piece that could lose the division for the Sox, especially if he comes out of the gate and hits .210 again. I don't see why that's not a possibility.

 

3B should really be dictated by how the Sox feel Crede is; if they think he can hit even .260 with modest power and 95% of his defensive range, the job should be his. If he can't do all of that, they should trade him for what they can get and have Fields be the 3Bman. As much as it sucks for me to say this, as I want Josh starting, it is entirely up to Crede as to whether or not he's the starting 3Bman come opening day, and Josh Fields can no longer do anything to force the issue.