That Was Not As Good Of A Game... The Semi-Positive Postgame Thread

[Rowand44]

I'm going to wait to b**** but if Anderson/Quentin get sent down, ugh...

[Rowand44]

I hate the way the team is structured right now, especially when I think that better pieces are not waiting in the wings, but rather ignored in the wings. It's very frustrating as a fan.

Exactly how I feel. This organizations thought process is quite perplexing at times.

[kapkomet]

Congrats to Ramirez on getting his first hit. I might be annoyed with him right now, but it doesn't mean I won't like him throughout his Sox career.

You won't like anyone throughout their Sox career.

 

[fathom]

You won't like anyone throughout their Sox career.

 

Is there any reason for this post? Honestly, this crap is getting old. It's a positive postgame thread, and I've complied with it. Nearly everyone on here is upset with Ramirez right now, but I think we need to step back and realize that we're not mad at him, but rather the position he's been put in.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I don't think a team with Uribe, Crede, and Owens in the starting lineup has any chance in hell at contending.

 

Honestly this is getting tired... They friggin won with Uribe and Crede. Hell, the St. Louis Cardinals won two years ago with a low 80 win total! 10 times out of 10 I'll let the games play out on the field and you can take your blessed "best team on paper" with a small fries and a coke... No chance at contending is an ignorant statement- You should probably stop sucking the joy out of a 2 day old baseball season and stick to fantasy baseball...

[RockRaines]

Is there any doubt that Alexei should be the one to go to AAA? He's not ready. Both Quentin and BA should be in the lineup today

[southsider2k5]

Is there any doubt that Alexei should be the one to go to AAA? He's not ready. Both Quentin and BA should be in the lineup today

 

I said in spring training that this kid was going to end up being one of the most hated people on the team. Forget "Cuban Missile", they need to start calling him Cerrano. He needs some time in the minors flailing at junk.

[lostfan]

Nearly everyone on here is upset with Ramirez right now, but I think we need to step back and realize that we're not mad at him, but rather the position he's been put in.

This type of rational thinking and logic doesn't apply to Jerry Owens for the most part. I don't really expect it to be any different for Ramirez unless he all of a sudden gets hot.

 

Poor guy.

[witesoxfan]

I don't think a team with Uribe, Crede, and Owens in the starting lineup has any chance in hell at contending.

 

Honestly this is getting tired... They friggin won with Uribe and Crede. Hell, the St. Louis Cardinals won two years ago with a low 80 win total! 10 times out of 10 I'll let the games play out on the field and you can take your blessed "best team on paper" with a small fries and a coke... No chance at contending is an ignorant statement- You should probably stop sucking the joy out of a 2 day old baseball season and stick to fantasy baseball...

 

They also won with a dynamite bullpen, an outstanding rotation, and great defense around the entire field...people really seem to forget that it wasn't anyone offensively that helped the Sox win in 2005 but rather the pitching and defense that won them that World Series. Fast-forward 3 years and Uribe's playing 2B, a position where offense is slightly more important than defense, though a combination of the two is better (where Uribe provides little offense at all), Crede is coming off back surgery and hasn't shown he's anywhere near ready for major league action, the defense is mediocre, and the pitching staff has seen a major regression since that time. Add to it that Owens is a worse defender than Anderson is in CF and is almost certainly a worse offensive option as well, and you have the culmination of my post.

 

As I said before, I don't think a team with Uribe, Crede, and Owens in the starting lineup has any chance in hell at contending.

 

There's a little more to it than merely looking at the best team on paper. I'm looking at players that I think would be upgrades to the team. Is there really a problem with that?

[bschmaranz]

hmmmmmmm, semi-positive.......

 

The Cubs lost again yesterday

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Which is why I brought up the '06 Cards. Eckstein at short? An oft-injured Rolen at third? An outfield that I would be hard pressed to name? Don't worry, you can still win with Uribe at second and Crede coming back from an injury. I'll agree with you that the key lies in starting pitching/bullpen, but defensively those two guys give us the best shot, and what team wouldnt take a 20 HR/70 RBI 9 hitter regardless of what his OBPS/SNIUF/DUFEDF/POOP/whatever other ridiculous asanine stat you can come up with says?

[ptatc]

The biggest problem so far for the hitter is hitting with two outs. Yesterday the Indians had 4 RBI with two outs. We left 4 men in scoring position. Bring up the pressure hitting a little and we're right there. Let's hope they fix it.

[lostfan]

Add to it that Owens is a worse defender than Anderson is in CF

Owens, plus about 95% of the rest of Major League Baseball

[LVSoxFan]

I thought the first game showed a lot of gut.

 

I thought last night looked like... 2007 all over again. But hey: it's only two games in, and the Tigers are winless too. BTW Crede got hosed on that first base call. Everybody looked tight and unhappy--maybe it was the cold weather.

 

I also noticed: geez, MacDougal throws an awful lot of pitches to get his outs. Wonder how long that will last.

 

But it's two games, people, against the best team in the division.

 

I agree: let's put BA in CF and see if his spring training success at the plate carries over. Might as well, right? Now or never.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's so easy to be positive. The Blackhawks kicked the Red Wings arse yesterday !

[witesoxfan]

Which is why I brought up the '06 Cards. Eckstein at short? An oft-injured Rolen at third? An outfield that I would be hard pressed to name? Don't worry, you can still win with Uribe at second and Crede coming back from an injury. I'll agree with you that the key lies in starting pitching/bullpen, but defensively those two guys give us the best shot, and what team wouldnt take a 20 HR/70 RBI 9 hitter regardless of what his OBPS/SNIUF/DUFEDF/POOP/whatever other ridiculous asanine stat you can come up with says?

 

The Cardinals won a terribly weak division and got hot in the playoffs, and they won with (surprise) superb pitching throughout that postseason. Comparing the 2005 White Sox and 2006 Cardinals is an insult to the Sox and all good World Series winning teams everywhere.

 

To go along with defense for a moment here, if what people have reported are true, Crede is not that good defensively right now. Again, you are comparing 2005 and 2006 Joe Crede with a moderately healthy back to Joe Crede coming off back surgery. So, he's got a mediocre stick and he's mediocre defensively. That sounds like a pretty mediocre player. Josh Fields offers upside, something Crede really doesn't offer much of anymore, and the potential to improve defensively.

 

And if you feel that OBP is an asinine stat, I'll simply say that you are wrong. OBP is arguably the most important stat in the game (though it's not far superior to slugging, which some people seem to think it is...slugging is quite important too). And Juan Uribe hits .230-.240 to go along with not ever walking. That means he's never on base which in turn means he's never in a position to be driven in and more or less just drives himself in, and even that's sporadically. Juan Uribe is not a good player, and was among the worst hitters in the league last year. The fact that he is now starting at a position that hurts his one major quality - defense - hurts the team even more.

 

You also seem to be ruling out the possibility that Anderson himself could put up 20 homers and 70 RBI as well, or that Quentin could put up 20 and 70, while also getting on base quite a bit more frequently. Or Alexei could do it while also getting acclimated to major league pitching.

 

Juan Uribe and Joe Crede are not good players, and, as I said, I don't think the Sox can contend with them starting. Nor Jerry Owens for that matter, but he atleast offers a bit of upside (though I'd prefer Anderson or Quentin starting over him).

[Dick Allen]

The Cardinals won a terribly weak division and got hot in the playoffs, and they won with (surprise) superb pitching throughout that postseason. Comparing the 2005 White Sox and 2006 Cardinals is an insult to the Sox and all good World Series winning teams everywhere.

 

To go along with defense for a moment here, if what people have reported are true, Crede is not that good defensively right now. Again, you are comparing 2005 and 2006 Joe Crede with a moderately healthy back to Joe Crede coming off back surgery. So, he's got a mediocre stick and he's mediocre defensively. That sounds like a pretty mediocre player. Josh Fields offers upside, something Crede really doesn't offer much of anymore, and the potential to improve defensively.

 

And if you feel that OBP is an asinine stat, I'll simply say that you are wrong. OBP is arguably the most important stat in the game (though it's not far superior to slugging, which some people seem to think it is...slugging is quite important too). And Juan Uribe hits .230-.240 to go along with not ever walking. That means he's never on base which in turn means he's never in a position to be driven in and more or less just drives himself in, and even that's sporadically. Juan Uribe is not a good player, and was among the worst hitters in the league last year. The fact that he is now starting at a position that hurts his one major quality - defense - hurts the team even more.

 

You also seem to be ruling out the possibility that Anderson himself could put up 20 homers and 70 RBI as well, or that Quentin could put up 20 and 70, while also getting on base quite a bit more frequently. Or Alexei could do it while also getting acclimated to major league pitching.

 

Juan Uribe and Joe Crede are not good players, and, as I said, I don't think the Sox can contend with them starting. Nor Jerry Owens for that matter, but he atleast offers a bit of upside (though I'd prefer Anderson or Quentin starting over him).

Uribe bats ninth. For a guy who is so bad, he drove in 10 less runs than the almighty run machine, Nick Swisher last year, while batting ninth on a team with perhaps the worst offense in the league.

[almagest]

Which is why I brought up the '06 Cards. Eckstein at short? An oft-injured Rolen at third? An outfield that I would be hard pressed to name? Don't worry, you can still win with Uribe at second and Crede coming back from an injury. I'll agree with you that the key lies in starting pitching/bullpen, but defensively those two guys give us the best shot, and what team wouldnt take a 20 HR/70 RBI 9 hitter regardless of what his OBPS/SNIUF/DUFEDF/POOP/whatever other ridiculous asanine stat you can come up with says?

 

The notion that the Cardinals won with/because of a bunch of crappy players is... well, wrong. The Cardinals had Chris Carpenter, a year removed from a Cy Young award, and Jeff Suppan in the rotation. They also had Jeff Weaver pitching way above his head for the last 1/3 of the season. And Albert Pujols/Scott Rolen/Juan Encarnacion/Jim Edmonds/Chris Duncan and a pretty good bullpen doesn't sound too bad to me. This is a team that won 100 games the year before, and probably would've won 90+ in 2006 if not for injuries. They got healthy and hot at the right time.

 

I also wonder how you can selectively quote Uribe's only decent stats to say he's good, then say that you can't use stats to prove he's not very good. He doesn't hit for average, he's never on base, he doesn't walk or take pitches well, and he strikes out a ton. His main defensive strengths are worth less at second base, as well. It's obvious, he's just not very good.

[almagest]

Speaking of selective stat-quoting...

 

Uribe bats ninth. For a guy who is so bad, he drove in 10 less runs than the almighty run machine, Nick Swisher last year, while batting ninth on a team with perhaps the worst offense in the league.

 

Yeah, I guess it doesn't matter that Oakland ALSO had a terrible offense, and Swisher lead off a lot, which wouldn't give him too many RBI situations. He also walked 100 times and slugged .455.

[lostfan]

Uribe bats ninth. For a guy who is so bad, he drove in 10 less runs than the almighty run machine, Nick Swisher last year, while batting ninth on a team with perhaps the worst offense in the league.

Swisher will have more hits, doubles, and home runs than Uribe.

 

This makes any RBI comparisons completely ridiculous and irrelevant unless Uribe has a better ability to simply will runners on when he's batting than Swisher does.

Edited April 3, 2008 by lostfan

[WCSox]

Is there any doubt that Alexei should be the one to go to AAA? He's not ready. Both Quentin and BA should be in the lineup today

 

I'd like to see BA in CF.

 

they need to start calling him Cerrano. He needs some time in the minors flailing at junk.

 

"I say, 'F**k you Jobu, I do it myself!'"

 

[witesoxfan]

Uribe bats ninth. For a guy who is so bad, he drove in 10 less runs than the almighty run machine, Nick Swisher last year, while batting ninth on a team with perhaps the worst offense in the league.

 

He also scored 29 fewer runs than Swisher too with Piazza, Chavez and Cust hitting behind him (of whom only Cust had a good year); taking out the 2 homer difference, that's 37 more runs that Swisher created either by scoring or driving someone in than Uribe.

 

I also can't believe you seriously compared Juan Uribe to Nick Swisher.

[Dick Allen]

He also scored 29 fewer runs than Swisher too with Piazza, Chavez and Cust hitting behind him (of whom only Cust had a good year); taking out the 2 homer difference, that's 37 more runs that Swisher created either by scoring or driving someone in than Uribe.

 

I also can't believe you seriously compared Juan Uribe to Nick Swisher.

I only compared their RBI totals. I think Uribe, while frustrating at times, is a lot better than most think. Every game he gets ripped. Every time he does well, its ignored. If he has a bad game, everyone has to mention it. He's supposed to be so horrible, it reminds me of Contreras in 2004 and April and May of 2005.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

I only compared their RBI totals. I think Uribe, while frustrating at times, is a lot better than most think.

 

I don't know how a .625 OPS can ever be considered "better than people think." That's all in all quite terrible.

 

He has his uses, but it involves either catching a lot of balls in the hole at SS in a lineup that absolutely mashes - ala 2006 - or on the bench as a super sub/home run threat off the bench. It's not as a starting 2Bman, because any value he has to a club is ruined there.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know how a .625 OPS can ever be considered "better than people think." That's all in all quite terrible.

 

He has his uses, but it involves either catching a lot of balls in the hole at SS in a lineup that absolutely mashes - ala 2006 - or on the bench as a super sub/home run threat off the bench. It's not as a starting 2Bman, because any value he has to a club is ruined there.

He's going to shock the world this season.