Marty34 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:26 PM) So who would you give up for Greinke? If you say Viciedo, then I ask you why would the Brewers want him? start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:32 AM) start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? To me, that seems like a ton for a rental with a lot of red flags right now. Brewers just had a terrible loss though, so they're one game closer to having to decide what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Before the Sox go and mortgage the future on Grienke or Hamels, they should see where they are at in 7-10 days, and whether or not Detroit gets Dempster or Garza or maybe even one of the two aces on the market, as well as where they are in the standings. IF on 7/26/12 they have fallen out of first place and are greater than 2 GB of Detroit, or maybe even in third place, they should sell instead of buy. As a matter of fact, looking at the schedule, they probably shouldn't make a move until 7/29, after which two games with Texas have been played. With Detroit on a hot streak, and per Rongey Floyd likely going on the DL, not having more than 2 or 3 reliable bullpen guys and 3/5 of the opening day rotation hurt or lousy or both, the Sox may be better suited selling than buying. I wouldn't count on either Danks or Floyd the rest of the season given their injuries, and with the young guys in the bullpen getting hit hard recently(Reed included) it might be tough to hold on to first by the end of the month. IF Danks and Floyd were healthy and pitching to their 3 yr averages, then I'd think differently but right now quite frankly I think the pitching outside of Sale and Peavy blows. You might get good performances from these guys once in a while, (like Axelrod's tonight) but those may be few and far between. I am of the opinion to wait at least 7 days to do anything. The Sox are in the toughest part of their schedule right now, and it could be the difference between buying or selling. I may change my tune by next Monday given the play of the team. In order for that to happen they would have to take 2 out of the remaining 3 in Boston and at least 2 of 3 in Detroit. Right now I think there is a possibility that they could be swept by both teams. And I didn't even mention that they are not scoring runs right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:32 PM) start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? Why do you always want to trade away predominantly the Hispanic players on our team or in our organization? Just curious. Used to be Ramirez over and over, now it's Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:34 PM) To me, that seems like a ton for a rental with a lot of red flags right now. Brewers just had a terrible loss though, so they're one game closer to having to decide what to do. Come on now Fathom, you don't want to pay a guy and you don't want a rental. Relying on Humber and Danks is the riskiest of all moves, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:31 PM) Padres always pitch guys like that. For some reason, I've thought all along that local boy Gregorson would be Kenny's relief acquisition. After seeing Volquez's terrible walk numbers this year, I want nothing to do with him. Gregerson would be a great pickup, but he's probably going to cost a ton. I'd rather find a cheaper reliever and save my best trade chips for a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:36 PM) Before the Sox go and mortgage the future on Grienke or Hamels, they should see where they are at in 7-10 days, and whether or not Detroit gets Dempster or Garza or maybe even one of the two aces on the market, as well as where they are in the standings. IF on 7/26/12 they have fallen out of first place and are greater than 2 GB of Detroit, or maybe even in third place, they should sell instead of buy. As a matter of fact, looking at the schedule, they probably shouldn't make a move until 7/29, after which two games with Texas have been played. With Detroit on a hot streak, and per Rongey Floyd likely going on the DL, not having more than 2 or 3 reliable bullpen guys and 3/5 of the opening day rotation hurt or lousy or both, the Sox may be better suited selling than buying. I wouldn't count on either Danks or Floyd the rest of the season given their injuries, and with the young guys in the bullpen getting hit hard recently(Reed included) it might be tough to hold on to first by the end of the month. IF Danks and Floyd were healthy and pitching to their 3 yr averages, then I'd think differently but right now quite frankly I think the pitching outside of Sale and Peavy blows. You might get good performances from these guys once in a while, (like Axelrod's tonight) but those may be few and far between. I am of the opinion to wait at least 7 days to do anything. The Sox are in the toughest part of their schedule right now, and it could be the difference between buying or selling. I may change my tune by next Monday given the play of the team. In order for that to happen they would have to take 2 out of the remaining 3 in Boston and at least 2 of 3 in Detroit. Right now I think there is a possibility that they could be swept by both teams. And I didn't even mention that they are not scoring runs right now. They need to go 3-3 or no worse than 2-4 the next 6. But there's no doubt that DET is the hottest team in baseball for the time being and have much more talent offensively than us. Largely because Miguel Cabrera is quite simply the best run producer and arguably best hitter in baseball (some will argue Hamilton or Votto). If Young, Berry and Boesch are all going to start hitting, watch out. That said...Fister's health has been shaky, Porcello and Scherzer maddeningly inconsistent, Smyly hurt.....hit and miss bullpen, but they do have the advantage with Coke, Dotel, Benoit and Valverde over our rookies. The lack of production from some of their studs last year (Peralta and Avila) is largely being offset by Berry and Austin Jackson sparking the top of the line-up at the same time DeAza's fallen off a cliff. We need to beat Jacob Turner SAT because it's going to be super tough to take out Verlander FRI in front of a packed house....and missing "Tiger Killer" Floyd, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:34 PM) To me, that seems like a ton for a rental with a lot of red flags right now. Brewers just had a terrible loss though, so they're one game closer to having to decide what to do. Agreed, I have no issue trading Tank because I just don't think he'll ever truly become a complete offensive force with a high OBP to go with his power, but Im not trading him for a rental. I'd need a good, cost-controlled starter for 2.5 years, for a great starter with 1.5 years (that we could resign later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) Come on now Fathom, you don't want to pay a guy and you don't want a rental. Relying on Humber and Danks is the riskiest of all moves, imo. Find cost controlled talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) Come on now Fathom, you don't want to pay a guy and you don't want a rental. Relying on Humber and Danks is the riskiest of all moves, imo. So was dealing Quentin, Santos, Frasor and letting Buehrle walk. Turning the bullpen over to completely inexperienced rookies with the exceptions of Crain, Thornton and Ohman. Giving lots of starts to Quintana, Axelrod and even Eric Stults this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:36 AM) Before the Sox go and mortgage the future on Grienke or Hamels, they should see where they are at in 7-10 days, and whether or not Detroit gets Dempster or Garza or maybe even one of the two aces on the market, as well as where they are in the standings. IF on 7/26/12 they have fallen out of first place and are greater than 2 GB of Detroit, or maybe even in third place, they should sell instead of buy. As a matter of fact, looking at the schedule, they probably shouldn't make a move until 7/29, after which two games with Texas have been played. With Detroit on a hot streak, and per Rongey Floyd likely going on the DL, not having more than 2 or 3 reliable bullpen guys and 3/5 of the opening day rotation hurt or lousy or both, the Sox may be better suited selling than buying. I wouldn't count on either Danks or Floyd the rest of the season given their injuries, and with the young guys in the bullpen getting hit hard recently(Reed included) it might be tough to hold on to first by the end of the month. IF Danks and Floyd were healthy and pitching to their 3 yr averages, then I'd think differently but right now quite frankly I think the pitching outside of Sale and Peavy blows. You might get good performances from these guys once in a while, (like Axelrod's tonight) but those may be few and far between. I am of the opinion to wait at least 7 days to do anything. The Sox are in the toughest part of their schedule right now, and it could be the difference between buying or selling. I may change my tune by next Monday given the play of the team. In order for that to happen they would have to take 2 out of the remaining 3 in Boston and at least 2 of 3 in Detroit. Right now I think there is a possibility that they could be swept by both teams. And I didn't even mention that they are not scoring runs right now. I disagree about the Sox becoming sellers, as by the time the deadline comes around, people would classify it as White Flag 2.0. I agree with the rest of the post though, good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:46 PM) Agreed, I have no issue trading Tank because I just don't think he'll ever truly become a complete offensive force with a high OBP to go with his power, but Im not trading him for a rental. I'd need a good, cost-controlled starter for 2.5 years, for a great starter with 1.5 years (that we could resign later). What if a deep playoff run allows you to bump the payroll up from $90M to $110M or more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I believe our chances of winning a WS are lower dealing Viciedo and putting Danks in LF (who at best could hit .300, but probably wouldn't knock in 25 runs the rest of the season) and having some expensive starter that will then walk make 10 starts for us. I'd rather keep our scary offense intact and hope for Danks to get healthy than miss out on the next 10 years of Viciedo or even the next few months of him. With ADA, PK, GB slumping, do you want to subtract another bat from the lineup? I think the lineup is pretty damn good but subtracting the 40+ RBI's that we'll get from Dayan the rest of the season is just making things harder for us. I'll give up anyone except players from our starting lineup/rotation (Floyd perhaps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:50 PM) I disagree about the Sox becoming sellers, as by the time the deadline comes around, people would classify it as White Flag 2.0. I agree with the rest of the post though, good job f*** White Flag 2.0. They should look at the big picture and do what is best for the long term goals of the team. Peavy's gone at the end of the season, Danks is hurt(probably to the point where he will be useless over the remainder of his contract) They are going to suck from 2013 until I don't know when, unload as much salary as possible and start the rebuilding process now. Unless Danks and Floyd come back in early August, are completely healthy, go on a tear, and the Sox are in 1st place when they come back, they are probably done. If they are in 1st at the deadline they should stand pat, because obviously you can't white flag it while you are in 1st place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 11:19 PM) f*** White Flag 2.0. They should look at the big picture and do what is best for the long term goals of the team. Peavy's gone at the end of the season, Danks is hurt(probably to the point where he will be useless over the remainder of his contract) They are going to suck from 2013 until I don't know when, unload as much salary as possible and start the rebuilding process now. Unless Danks and Floyd come back in early August, are completely healthy, go on a tear, and the Sox are in 1st place when they come back, they are probably done. If they are in 1st at the deadline they should stand pat, because obviously you can't white flag it while you are in 1st place. Seriously? What makes you believe that? A tear of the lowest grade? Edited July 17, 2012 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (MAX @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:22 PM) Seriously? What makes you believe that? A tear of the lowest grade? No doubt. Chicken Little's everywhere tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Carter224 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:50 PM) Probably about as dumb as the people who think Viciedo is a lock to turn into a 35-40 HR hitter and Quintana is a sub 3 ERA pitcher.. Clearly, you're the one who doesn't watch much baseball. Clearly 23 year old players in the majors are finished products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 White Flagging it would be suicidal. We've come this far, let's see it through. Not going to touch the Danks comments. Floyd is on the DL or will be and can't be traded. So that leaves you trading who: AJ? Crain (who's on the DL)? Thornton? Rios? Dunn? Peavy? Konerko, who has a lingering hand injury and whose production has nosedived? Trade Youkilis to yet another team? A White Flag trade makes absolutely ZERO sense. I guess we could try to dump as much of Dunn's, Rios' and Peavy's salaries, but then what? Turn around and spend on more free agents, buying high inevitably? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'd like to see the Sox get Dellin Betances. The Yankees probably want Mitchell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It's funny how one loss to the Red Sox has people talking about selling and White Flag 2.0. Take a breath. Let's see how this series goes, and then maybe the series with Detroit goes before we give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 06:18 AM) It's funny how one loss to the Red Sox has people talking about selling and White Flag 2.0. Take a breath. Let's see how this series goes, and then maybe the series with Detroit goes before we give up. We're 2-2 since the break and both of our losses happened late in games, yet people are acting like we haven't won in weeks. Detroit is playing well, but we are still in first place. I can't even believe someone would suggest selling at this point. There is still a ton of baseball left. I think this is going to be a great race and can't wait to see it unhold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 07:01 AM) We're 2-2 since the break and both of our losses happened late in games, yet people are acting like we haven't won in weeks. Detroit is playing well, but we are still in first place. I can't even believe someone would suggest selling at this point. There is still a ton of baseball left. I think this is going to be a great race and can't wait to see it unhold. Well said. Not to mention Detroit has a tough month of baseball ahead. 3 vs Angels 3 vs White Sox 3 @ Indians 3 @ Bluejays 3 @ Red Sox Here is the White Sox remaining schedule for July: 3 @ Red Sox 3 @ Tigers 3 vs Twins 3 @ Rangers 3 @ Twins Our schedule is just as tough and i CANT wait to see that series vs Detroit coming up this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) Would be interesting to see AJ catch him, since they dislike one another... AJ doesn't seem like the kind that lets those things bother him on the field. In fact I swear he gets off on it, and plays better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) Since I don't think we have the pieces for Greinke, I'd be happy if KW is just trying to drive the price up on this one. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) Although I agree with your point, flags fly forever. Whatever window the White Sox have left, in my opinion, it won't last long. But as we have seen, the effect from those flags flying does not last forever. Sox attendance levels this year are lower than any year since 2002. Winning now puts more butts in the seats, but you8 do have to think of the team being competitive in the future do, because as we saw, the bandwagon will empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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