Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

[greg775]

s***ty talent relative to the rest of the AL? If they were in the east? Jesus. Sniffing .500? If that's their ceiling then this season was over before it started.

 

What is your point? Sox are 17 below .500. I contend that mainly because of pitching and some good (on paper) everyday hitters/fielders, this team should be around .500. 17 below prior to the all-star break is much much different from that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

What is your point? Sox are 17 below .500. I contend that mainly because of pitching and some good (on paper) everyday hitters/fielders, this team should be around .500. 17 below prior to the all-star break is much much different from that.

 

The point is when you're 17 games below .500 you pretty much suck. There's no riddles or anything that need to be decoded here. This is a bad baseball team and organization overall. 1 playoff appearance in 8 years at a time when making the playoffs is easier than it's ever been? Pathetic.

[PolishPrince34]

Hopefully everybody had their top scouts watching Rios and Dunn swing the bat. Hahn needs to bring his A game these next 3 weeks to prove what type a GM he is.

[GreatScott82]

Hopefully everybody had their top scouts watching Rios and Dunn swing the bat. Hahn needs to bring his A game these next 3 weeks to prove what type a GM he is.

Yep. I have reserved all remaining judgements on the guy until after the trade deadline. Hopefully he can make some noise that can set us up nicely in a 2 to 3 years.

[witesoxfan]

The point is when you're 17 games below .500 you pretty much suck. There's no riddles or anything that need to be decoded here. This is a bad baseball team and organization overall. 1 playoff appearance in 8 years at a time when making the playoffs is easier than it's ever been? Pathetic.

 

Well it's 0 for 1 since the new system went in, so there's that. And they have had 4 legitimately good teams in the last 8 years, and 5 in the last 9. The pitching broke down in the second half of 2006, they made it in 2008 (against all odds), they won 88 games in 2010 and missed by like 4 games thanks in large part to petty differences between the GM and the manager, and the entire team broke down due to fatigue and mild injuries the last two weeks of the season last year. Acting as if this team has been garbage over the last 8 years is absolutely wrong and you know it.

 

Now, acting as if this team is good is also wrong. Father time appears to have finally met Konerko, the shortstop's once dwindling power has finally become non-existent, third base has nothing but mediocrity or worse set up, they've been running with a catcher who can't hit a fastball without cheating, the young left field prospect has been a colossal disaster, the centerfielder who got on base last year is, for whatever reason, trying to hit home runs now and striking out like crazy. Add on to it injuries and an older team in general with no real good answers on the way, and yes, it is time to rebuild. To what extent I think only the front office and Hahn know, but it's absolutely time.

[Balta1701]

Slump? what slump?

[LittleHurt05]

Well it's 0 for 1 since the new system went in, so there's that. And they have had 4 legitimately good teams in the last 8 years, and 5 in the last 9. The pitching broke down in the second half of 2006, they made it in 2008 (against all odds), they won 88 games in 2010 and missed by like 4 games thanks in large part to petty differences between the GM and the manager, and the entire team broke down due to fatigue and mild injuries the last two weeks of the season last year. Acting as if this team has been garbage over the last 8 years is absolutely wrong and you know it.

 

Now, acting as if this team is good is also wrong. Father time appears to have finally met Konerko, the shortstop's once dwindling power has finally become non-existent, third base has nothing but mediocrity or worse set up, they've been running with a catcher who can't hit a fastball without cheating, the young left field prospect has been a colossal disaster, the centerfielder who got on base last year is, for whatever reason, trying to hit home runs now and striking out like crazy. Add on to it injuries and an older team in general with no real good answers on the way, and yes, it is time to rebuild. To what extent I think only the front office and Hahn know, but it's absolutely time.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Hopefully everybody had their top scouts watching Rios and Dunn swing the bat. Hahn needs to bring his A game these next 3 weeks to prove what type a GM he is.

 

I don't think it's realistic to think that GMs will be fooled by single game performances, good or bad. Scouts are looking at skills, tools, and makeup while GMs are looking at season stats.

[Balta1701]

I don't think it's realistic to think that GMs will be fooled by single game performances, good or bad. Scouts are looking at skills, tools, and makeup while GMs are looking at season stats.

But if they were worried about Rios's recent slump, those worries may have ended yesterday.,

[Dick Allen]

But if they were worried about Rios's recent slump, those worries may have ended yesterday.,

I agree. One game probably doesn't really make a difference, but a good week definitely could.

 

It is important he look like he can contribute right away and for the rest of the season. There is no sense acquiring him if he is in a slump and looks like he could struggle for a while or looks like he doesn't feel like playing when you are doing it for this year, so there is a tighter window to evaluate and project than normal.

[hogan873]

Well, it's time to apologize to Rios. Six hits in a 9-inning game? Ties AL record? Sets all kind of marks tonight. Holy s***, what a game for Rios. I apologize to him for ripping him a lot again this season.

Well, it should be much easier to trade him anywhere now. Seriously. A game like that shows scouts he could be valuable IMO. To get six hits in a game and explode like that has to make contending teams take notice that Rios might win you a lot of games down the stretch if he's focused like that.

 

Tonight proved several things. 1.) Rios is an enigma with a lot of talent and 2.) Viciedo may be one of those guys who needs to be pushed (benched when he f***s up) to bring out his ability. Two homers?? Where'd that come from? And 3.) The Sox are capable of playing much better than they have this season from hell.

One outstanding game by Rios isn't going to change his value much. Other GMs are not going to be looking at July 9 as what they will get for Rios. They're going to look at his overall performance this year and probably last year. He's never had 6 hits in a 9 inning game before, and chances are he never will again.

 

It's just like the thread about Dunn (Dunn?). Like clockwork, that thread jumps to the top of the page after he has a bad game and strikes out three times or has a good game and gets three hits. One game doesn't matter. When it comes to a player's value it's how they perform overall.

 

That being said, I'd be surprised if Rios isn't traded. I don't know what the Sox can get for him, but hopefully some decent talent. Also, I'd be ust as surprised if Dunn is traded. There's a limited market for a guy like him, but his market may have expanded a bit with him playing a lot of games at first base.

[caulfield12]

Well it's 0 for 1 since the new system went in, so there's that. And they have had 4 legitimately good teams in the last 8 years, and 5 in the last 9. The pitching broke down in the second half of 2006, they made it in 2008 (against all odds), they won 88 games in 2010 and missed by like 4 games thanks in large part to petty differences between the GM and the manager, and the entire team broke down due to fatigue and mild injuries the last two weeks of the season last year. Acting as if this team has been garbage over the last 8 years is absolutely wrong and you know it.

 

Now, acting as if this team is good is also wrong. Father time appears to have finally met Konerko, the shortstop's once dwindling power has finally become non-existent, third base has nothing but mediocrity or worse set up, they've been running with a catcher who can't hit a fastball without cheating, the young left field prospect has been a colossal disaster, the centerfielder who got on base last year is, for whatever reason, trying to hit home runs now and striking out like crazy. Add on to it injuries and an older team in general with no real good answers on the way, and yes, it is time to rebuild. To what extent I think only the front office and Hahn know, but it's absolutely time.

 

 

You're going to judge Viciedo that harshly based on 2 months of 2013? C'mon, you're better than that.

 

His OPS is 670 now, that's still quite bad, but he's also two good weeks away from being in the same range he was last year. Now, of course, we expected him to get all the way up to the 800 OPS number, and that might not be in the cards, but watching him hit last night, you just can't give up on someone like that at age 24, especially considering how long other more highly rated prospects have taken to come around (in ages 26-28).

 

And, even though Beckham's hitting well this year, it's not like he's is tearing it up with XB hits. Now, sure, we don't want the 15 homer, 50-55 RBI, 625-650 OPS Beckham back either, but it's way too early to likewise count Gordon has a lock for the 2014 team.

Edited July 10, 2013 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

You're going to judge Viciedo that harshly based on 2 months of 2013? C'mon, you're better than that.

 

His OPS is 670 now, that's still quite bad, but he's also two good weeks away from being in the same range he was last year. Now, of course, we expected him to get all the way up to the 800 OPS number, and that might not be in the cards, but watching him hit last night, you just can't give up on someone like that at age 24, especially considering how long other more highly rated prospects have taken to come around (in ages 26-28).

 

And, even though Beckham's hitting well this year, it's not like he's is tearing it up with XB hits. Now, sure, we don't want the 15 homer, 50-55 RBI, 625-650 OPS Beckham back either, but it's way too early to likewise count Gordon has a lock for the 2014 team.

 

His OPS was .630 before last night's explosion, which means he's also two ordinary 2013 weeks away from being back to .630-.650. To suggest he's been anything less than a disaster is grasping at straws. He's up over 1000 career plate appearances in the majors, and while it takes some guys longer, you would like to see that OPS higher than it was last year. Maybe he'll figure it out in the 2nd half, and maybe he can start hitting like he did shortly after coming off the DL, but until then, he's really nothing more than Juan Uribe at the plate.

 

Also, not sure where you got the idea I was giving up on him. Just saying he's been a disaster. If you can find a trade worth making then by all means, make it, but there's no point in releasing him or anything at this point.

 

Also, unless he's traded, there's virtually no reason to not have Beckham on the roster. Even at $5 mill, having him play 2B or SS or whatever will be worth it. They need to put someone in the lineup next season.

[caulfield12]

His OPS was .630 before last night's explosion, which means he's also two ordinary 2013 weeks away from being back to .630-.650. To suggest he's been anything less than a disaster is grasping at straws. He's up over 1000 career plate appearances in the majors, and while it takes some guys longer, you would like to see that OPS higher than it was last year. Maybe he'll figure it out in the 2nd half, and maybe he can start hitting like he did shortly after coming off the DL, but until then, he's really nothing more than Juan Uribe at the plate.

 

Also, not sure where you got the idea I was giving up on him. Just saying he's been a disaster. If you can find a trade worth making then by all means, make it, but there's no point in releasing him or anything at this point.

 

Also, unless he's traded, there's virtually no reason to not have Beckham on the roster. Even at $5 mill, having him play 2B or SS or whatever will be worth it. They need to put someone in the lineup next season.

 

 

The fact that he hit two fastballs should some encouragement alone, and both against RHP'ers (at least for Fathom).

 

The problem is that with the missed month, he's trying to get 25 homers all at once, and you just can't do that. He's pressing. And obviously, everyone in the offense is taking the weight of the world on their shoulders, as they have to feel bad for Chris Sale, in particular, but also Q and Santiago (and Hector did blow a five run lead, which really sucked).

[BigHurt3515]

I thought this thread was suppose to be about Rios trade rumors???

[Balta1701]

The fact that he hit two fastballs should some encouragement alone, and both against RHP'ers (at least for Fathom).

It also might be encouraging that he had a very good game right after being benched.

[southsider2k5]

I thought this thread was suppose to be about Rios trade rumors???

 

Rule #1 at Soxtalk.com. Topic titles are mere suggestions and probably won't stay on topic.

[caulfield12]

Speaking of Rios and future OF vacancies....haha

 

How much does everyone think Ellsbury would cost in terms of years and dollars?

 

His OPS is in the high 700's now.

 

I'm coming around to the conclusion that the single most important roster spot, moreso than clean-up, is DeAza making a mess of leadoff with K's, baserunning and fielding blunders...in terms of setting the tone of the entire offense.

 

Maybe if we went back to the 2005 Scotty Pods/Iguchi playbook....of adding a consensus Top 5 leadoff man, and perhaps putting Beckham in the two hole, we'd be able to generate a lot more runs without the benefit of homers or stringing together 3 hits in a single inning together.

 

Seems like this worked well for the Indians, adding Michael Bourn, as well.

 

 

We would have to clear out Peavy, Danks and maybe Alexei to get this done, as well as DeAza, but it's not impossible.

 

 

Ellsbury (CF)

Beckham (2B)

Morales (1B/DH)

Rios (RF)

Dunn (1B/DH)

Viciedo (LF)

Gillaspie (3B)

Phegley © the 7th and 8th spots could flip

???? (SS)

 

We could definitely compete with that line-up, if Viciedo is the hitter he showed LAST NIGHT.

 

Obviously, the bottom 3 of the line-up is a huge issue...or could be. But not enough to kill the offense or keep it from being average.

 

 

So now we have to find takers for Danks, Peavy, Crain, Ramirez and DeAza...along with Thornton, just to save some more $$$.

Lindstrom, if we're offered ANYTHING decent.

 

I'll overlook Morales' agent being Boras for a moment if we're going to spend what it takes to sign both Morales and Ellsbury.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2013 by caulfield12

[Jake]

I would like Ellsbury. I have a feeling we'll sit back and try to see what FAs are hanging around after the largest dollars are thrown about. Ellsbury will likely get some of those big dollars. I have a feeling he will get paid more than he can earn.

[Jake]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m

The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.

[southsider2k5]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m

The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.

 

Good.

[caulfield12]

I would like Ellsbury. I have a feeling we'll sit back and try to see what FAs are hanging around after the largest dollars are thrown about. Ellsbury will likely get some of those big dollars. I have a feeling he will get paid more than he can earn.

 

 

So we should hope he has a season going forward like Granderson in 2013 (or Dye coming into 2005) where his value decreases but not to the point where it's too high of a risk to still sign him....where we roll the dice and come up winners.

 

(Yes, that's exactly back to the KW way of doing things, but nobody wants to wait 4 or 5 years to have a decent team again, either).

Edited July 10, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m

The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.

Lillibridge, Marquez, Castro and Molina were probably considered major-league ready or near ready when acquired.

[flavum]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m

The White Sox have been asking for major-league ready or near-ready prospects in their trade talks.

 

Package deals are the Sox only hope. Maybe for Rios, you get something good.

 

Three weeks to go (plus two hours).

[southsider2k5]

Lillibridge, Marquez, Castro and Molina were probably considered major-league ready or near ready when acquired.

 

So was Carlos Quentin, Paul Konerko, Connor Gillaspie, and Gavin Floyd.