Balta1701 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Is Kershaw available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) I disagree with this basic premise. He's 25, not 30. How do we know he's at the "height". And that height may last for a long time, as it often does with easy throwing lefties. The man's consistent. We need pitchers like him. And our system is not exactly replete with arms. We have plenty of other superior options to trade, like surplus middle infielders, Dunn, De Aza and then guys like Phegley. And frankly we need to trade a lot of these guys even though we'll get similar in return. They are superior only in that they do not have much value to the Sox, and really probably less value anywhere else than in Chicago. If you want to receive top talent back, you need to give up top talent. Trading any of those guys will get you A ball lottery tickets while moving Q would likely net you high level talent. QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) No to trading Q............Danks hell yes. Again, you have to trade value to get value back, Danks has more value to the Sox than he does anyone else at this point. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 30, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) The White Sox need starting pitching. Not shedding it. If you can turn Q into two SP's though, wouldn't that help you quicker than waiting to for someone to develop? If you deal him to the BJ's, Orioles, or Rockies and get an MLB ready arm back, a near MLB ready guy, and another prospect, it would fix the rotation more quickly than waiting for Danish to develop. I am not advocating the idea, just thought it would be a good discussion on a slow news day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ May 30, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) If you can turn Q into two SP's though, wouldn't that help you quicker than waiting to for someone to develop? If you deal him to the BJ's, Orioles, or Rockies and get an MLB ready arm back, a near MLB ready guy, and another prospect, it would fix the rotation more quickly than waiting for Danish to develop. Unless you find a way to fleece someone, no. Anyone who wants Quetzalcoatl is someone who also needs the very guys you're saying we should target. You'd have to get prospects with more risk, who generally have a greater than 50% bust rate. Sure, you could end up on top in a few years, if everything goes right, but you're not going to get two guys with any more than a hail mary's chance of being within a year of making an impact. You could maybe get one and a rawer arm or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) If someone were to make a list of the most valuable pitchers in baseball at the moment where would Q rank? 15? 20? Edited May 30, 2014 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 No. He's 25 and we just signed him for a pretty good deal, $25.6 million/5yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 No, because nobody is going to give you equal value. If someone wants to offer a Wil Myers type deal up then yea do it, but Dayton Moore probably isn't walking through that door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I think it depends on how far away we really are and if you can eventually turn Quintana into 2 or more valuable pieces. Sale is a bit different in that true aces are so hard to find, yet his health will always be a concern. If you can swing a Ricky Williams type deal for him, you have to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 30, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) I think it depends on how far away we really are and if you can eventually turn Quintana into 2 or more valuable pieces. Sale is a bit different in that true aces are so hard to find, yet his health will always be a concern. If you can swing a Ricky Williams type deal for him, you have to take it. And that "true ace" can still only pitch at most twice in a 7 game series. You need front line starters to win in the post season, with Quintana the Sox already have 2. If they can get one more, they'd be set. Hey the draft is next week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 30, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) sometimes it seems people are more concerned about the Sox being #1 in prospect rankings than actually keeping good young players under reasonable salaries. Unknown prospects are usually more sexy than the guys on the current roster in all sports, except for the superstars. Don't know why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If Gregory Polanco is available, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 30, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) If someone were to make a list of the most valuable pitchers in baseball at the moment where would Q rank? 15? 20? When you consider his contract, vs someone like Clayton Kershaw who just signed a near $300 million deal? He is a HUGE value right now. Top 20 at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I think that additional wild card spot is going to keep a lot of teams from wanting to sell as well. Obviously it's too ridiculously early, but if the season ended today, we are 1.5 games out of a playoff spot. And, like was mentioned before, we'd be dealing him hoping we got a player that turned into him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ May 30, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) They are superior only in that they do not have much value to the Sox, and really probably less value anywhere else than in Chicago. If you want to receive top talent back, you need to give up top talent. Trading any of those guys will get you A ball lottery tickets while moving Q would likely net you high level talent. Again, you have to trade value to get value back, Danks has more value to the Sox than he does anyone else at this point. If you can turn Q into two SP's though, wouldn't that help you quicker than waiting to for someone to develop? If you deal him to the BJ's, Orioles, or Rockies and get an MLB ready arm back, a near MLB ready guy, and another prospect, it would fix the rotation more quickly than waiting for Danish to develop. I am not advocating the idea, just thought it would be a good discussion on a slow news day. Why not just sign Kazmir, Haren, Feldman, Tim Hudson, Phil Hughes, Paul Maholm, etc.? Or do like what we've done traditionally, getting Noesi/Humber/Carroll off the waiver wire? Same thing with the Astros and McHugh. Edited May 30, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Lol no. We need more pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 How has Marty not posted in this thread yet? Trading Quintana is essentially his plan to improve the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) One thing that is great about Q's development is that he seems to have created a fairly wide strikezone for himself. He'll work up and down, in and out. He's a control pitcher who can hit the corners and get the borderline calls, which is going to naturally prompt a hitter to chase more often. And the fact that he'll pitch inside, that's really where he's going to continue to become more dangerous. When hitters get looking away & he keeps going back out there his fastball doesn't play that well, but he can routinely blow guys away on the outside part of the plate with it by mixing things up and going in with fastball. Someone posted a video of Pedro in another thread, and while Q is not Pedro, it is amazing to watch a pitcher than can front door a slider and then go away with the fastball, or go in with the heat and back door the slider. Q isn't nasty like Pedro but he's got better stuff than Brad Radke & Radke was someone who used the whole zone to his benefit. If Q is a better Radke then that's a pretty good pitcher. And Q is someone that can really shut you do in sequence, which really is a tough thing to do in reality even if it's easy to do in a video game. Most guys can't go in and out at the same time without leaving something right over the middle of the plate. Q doesn't do that much & when he does miss he's usually missing off the plate rather than over it. I expect him to just get better. I'm in the boat with those who think we need more pitching, not less. But if you get something stupid thrown at you then that's different, but it has to be much more than a fair deal for sure. It's unlikely that would happen. Edited May 31, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 If the Sox aren't willing to spend ~120m on free agent starting pitchers next year they might as well market Quintana. The position players are largely accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) If the Sox aren't willing to spend ~120m on free agent starting pitchers next year they might as well market Quintana. The position players are largely accounted for. And as usual, makes no sense. The White Sox aren't willing to spend money on starting pitching. They should therefore get rid of starting pitching as they have too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) And as usual, makes no sense. The White Sox aren't willing to spend money on starting pitching. They should therefore get rid of starting pitching as they have too much. As usual you don't understand. Sale and Quintana are ready now and have nothing behind them. The longer you put nothing behind them the less valuable they become to this team. The last thing you want is for them to get hurt waiting on the minor leagues to churn out a couple of capable starters. Edited May 31, 2014 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) As usual you don't understand. Sale and Quintana are ready now and have nothing behind them. The longer you put nothing behind them the less valuable they become to this team. The last thing you want is for them to get hurt waiting on the minor leagues to churn out a couple of capable starters. And by trading Quintana you hope to, at best, get Quintana back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) And by trading Quintana you hope to, at best, get Quintana back. You push the timeline back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) You push the timeline back. The White Sox have Jose Quintana under contract through 2020. How long are you hoping we're bad for? Seriously, Quintana is under contract for so long that if they traded for someone and brought that player up, that player would be able to hit free agency the same year Quintana would. The White Sox would have 6 years of control on Quintana and 6 years of control on a guy they traded for. It literally does not push anything back at all except makes it harder to win in 2015. Which I guess is probably why you want to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) The White Sox have Jose Quintana under contract through 2020. How long are you hoping we're bad for? Seriously, Quintana is under contract for so long that if they traded for someone and brought that player up, that player would be able to hit free agency the same year Quintana would. The White Sox would have 6 years of control on Quintana and 6 years of control on a guy they traded for. It literally does not push anything back at all except makes it harder to win in 2015. Which I guess is probably why you want to do it. It's not about control in the case of Quintana, it's about upside and their pitching pipeline which is in bad shape. How long are you going to wait to put starters around them? If you are going to tell me the timeline is 2 or 3 years to get the staff built around Sale and Q, I'm going to say that's just too long given the injury risks to any pitcher, and to Sale in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) The White Sox have Jose Quintana under contract through 2020. How long are you hoping we're bad for? Seriously, Quintana is under contract for so long that if they traded for someone and brought that player up, that player would be able to hit free agency the same year Quintana would. The White Sox would have 6 years of control on Quintana and 6 years of control on a guy they traded for. It literally does not push anything back at all except makes it harder to win in 2015. Which I guess is probably why you want to do it. I agree. It's like some people are comfortable in "rebuilding" and sucking as long as we are rebuilding. It's a weird dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:01 PM) It's not about control in the case of Quintana, it's about upside and their pitching pipeline which is in bad shape. How long are you going to wait to put starters around them? If you are going to tell me the timeline is 2 or 3 years to get the staff built around Sale and Q, I'm going to say that's just too long given the injury risks to any pitcher, and to Sale in particular. So...the White Sox should trade for young pitching that will then take 2 to 3 years to develop becuase that's the norm for young pitching (see for example, Jose Quintana's development, Chris Sale's development). You really want this team to lose for the next 2-3 years don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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