Your 2015 Offseason Plan

[witesoxfan]

Heyward is a guy that could get me talking about anyone outside of Anderson, Rodon and Adams. I'd offer up a package with Danish/Montas, Johnson/Hawkins, Semien/Sanchez and Ravelo/Davidson for Heyward.

 

The only guys I'm leery of dealing on that list are Montas and Semien, and that's just because I really like those guys.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Heyward is a guy that could get me talking about anyone outside of Anderson, Rodon and Adams. I'd offer up a package with Danish/Montas, Johnson/Hawkins, Semien/Sanchez and Ravelo/Davidson for Heyward.

 

That's a ton to give up for a guy that only has 1 year left, and is probably going to ask for 8 yrs/$160M or so. He will be a FA at age 26.

[witesoxfan]

That's a ton to give up for a guy that only has 1 year left, and is probably going to ask for 8 yrs/$160M or so. He will be a FA at age 26.

 

That's the thing though - he is 26 and is an All-Star caliber player who could easily improve into one of the most valuable players in the league. He could also continue putting up Markakis-esque numbers, but as long as it comes with elite defense, he's still incredibly valuable. If the Braves to make him available, there are going to be a lot of suitors. Sometimes you have to overpay to get the guy you want.

[Balta1701]

That's the thing though - he is 26 and is an All-Star caliber player who could easily improve into one of the most valuable players in the league. He could also continue putting up Markakis-esque numbers, but as long as it comes with elite defense, he's still incredibly valuable. If the Braves to make him available, there are going to be a lot of suitors. Sometimes you have to overpay to get the guy you want.

But we'd also be overpaying to keep him.

[Rowand44]

Geez Heyward is only going to be 26? I feel like he's been around for 10 years.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

But we'd also be overpaying to keep him.

 

Right, that's what I'm saying. We'd have to overpay on talent to acquire him only in hopes of overpaying on dollars to retain him. I think Upton would come easier in a trade, and would be easier to retain, even if he is the less overall player, vastly superior offensive player (and we could always DH him if need be).

 

Either way, I think there is a decent chance Atlanta would want to move one of them, considering the cost to resign BOTH guys could exceed $250M.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Geez Heyward is only going to be 26? I feel like he's been around for 10 years.

 

I actually remember his debut a few years ago very clearly. He hit a 3-run HR deep to RF in the tunnel at Turner Field in his 1st ML AB off the Cubs. Zambrano maybe? And I think he was the 2nd Brave to do that in consecutive years, with Jordan Schaefer doing it the year prior in his 1st ML AB too. I think Shaefer's was a solo shot though. Also at home, but I think to CF.

 

I would be very impressed with myself if I nailed all that correctly from memory. Someone fact check me.

[GGajewski18]

Geez Heyward is only going to be 26? I feel like he's been around for 10 years.

 

And Upton is only 27. Just turned 27 too. I'd make an offer for Upton definitely.

[caulfield12]

Well, I think Heyward was the only RFer in the majors who was "great" defensively according to most of the metrics.

 

On the other hand, WAR has become so "overhyped" to the point where teams are supposed to offer more for Alex Gordon or Heyward than Justin Upton, who's the far superior (at least in recent years) offensive player?

 

Not sure I'm buying that...not with the money Victor Martinez is about to get as a DH at his age. Of course, it's also a matter of supply and demand.

 

However, there's no way the Braves don't ask for Anderson and Montas, and that's probably the end of the conversation for Hahn. If he was a cost-controlled asset for the next three years, then it would be a big-time dilemma. Right now, it's nice to dream but the combination of a one-year rental possibility in a (still) likely non-competing year, along with the sheer amount of talent we'd give up that we REALLY need in 2016-19...just doesn't make any sense.

 

And why would either player be willing to sign a "below value/club-friendly" long-term deal like F.Garcia did in 2004?

[BlackSox13]

Heyward worth over 5 WAR.

I did not think it was that high. If his bat comes back around to compliment his defense, holy s*** would he carry some value. Yikes!

 

Both players are FA after 2015 season. I think the Braves would try harder to resign Heyward than Upton, given how great Heyward appears to be defensively, and he's younger.

My bad, I was looking at the wrong Upton.

 

OK, I'm greedy but can't we just have both Justin and Heyward, provided they both agreed to extensions? A lineup of Abreu, Heyward, J.Upton as 3,4,5 hitters sounds good.

 

I would gladly try to build a package around Q and Avi for that haul. Not sure the Sox have enough to fill out the rest or not but its interesting to think about. I know I would not want to Anderson in the deal. Maybe the Sox agree to take BJ's contract to help balance things out.

 

Justin in LF, Eaton in CF, Heyward in RF with BJ being the rotating 4th OF is a solid defense. OK, dream is over and I'm awake.

[caulfield12]

I did not think it was that high. If his bat comes back around to compliment his defense, holy s*** would he carry some value. Yikes!

 

 

My bad, I was looking at the wrong Upton.

 

OK, I'm greedy but can't we just have both Justin and Heyward, provided they both agreed to extensions? A lineup of Abreu, Heyward, J.Upton as 3,4,5 hitters sounds good.

 

I would gladly try to build a package around Q and Avi for that haul. Not sure the Sox have enough to fill out the rest or not but its interesting to think about. I know I would not want to Anderson in the deal. Maybe the Sox agree to take BJ's contract to help balance things out.

 

Justin in LF, Eaton in CF, Heyward in RF with BJ being the rotating 4th OF is a solid defense. OK, dream is over and I'm awake.

 

 

With Danks' contract still on the books, they're not going to take on another bad contract in BJ Upton.

 

Their operating style has always been to trade away prospects instead of eating the costs on the accounts payable line.

[nickofypres]

Lind has had a 2.9, and 2.2 oWAR the past two seasons. If he was strictly a DH, that would be a good pick up.

 

Lind is only control for his age 31, and 32 seasons, and only owed 15.5 over the next two seasons.

[Vance Law]

Lind has had a 2.9, and 2.2 oWAR the past two seasons. If he was strictly a DH, that would be a good pick up.

 

Lind is only control for his age 31, and 32 seasons, and only owed 15.5 over the next two seasons.

 

Exactly. Why would Toronto let him go?

[BlackSox13]

With Danks' contract still on the books, they're not going to take on another bad contract in BJ Upton.

 

Their operating style has always been to trade away prospects instead of eating the costs on the accounts payable line.

Normally I would agree but since the Sox have so much room in the payroll it is a possibility although not a very likely one. The Sox could, if they so desired, take on BJ's contract if it meant getting Justin and Heyward.

 

In the end, I admit, its just a daydream is all.

 

A more realistic idea might BJ and one of Heyward/ JU for Danks, Montas and.... not sure what else really.lol. No matter, this is just for conversations sake.

[2nd_city_saint787]

With Danks' contract still on the books, they're not going to take on another bad contract in BJ Upton.

 

Their operating style has always been to trade away prospects instead of eating the costs on the accounts payable line.

 

Hahn has already said they might take on a bad contract.

 

Payroll is so low that they can quite literally do whatever they want as long as it makes sense.

 

If they can make moves, that make sense, that put them over 100M I wouldn't be shocked one bit.

 

 

Now I'm not specifically craving the deal that you responded to but I'm just sayin. I know you're of the belief that attendance effects payroll and all but ya, I highly doubt that.

Edited October 24, 2014 by scs787

[Dam8610]

So I asked about this list of players earlier as far as what they could get for a return if packaged:

 

Conor Gillaspie

Dayan Viciedo

Carlos Sanchez

Micah Johnson

Chris Bassitt

Tyler Danish

Chris Beck

Francellis Montas

 

And this discussion of these Braves players is an example of why. Could any group of players off that list net the return people are looking for? Or perhaps an interesting group of players from the Reds?

[GreenSox]

That's the thing though - he is 26 and is an All-Star caliber player who could easily improve into one of the most valuable players in the league. He could also continue putting up Markakis-esque numbers, but as long as it comes with elite defense, he's still incredibly valuable. If the Braves to make him available, there are going to be a lot of suitors. Sometimes you have to overpay to get the guy you want.

As the Sox know all too well. It has worked splendidly.

73 win teams don't trade prospects, much less top prospects, for a rent (esp for a rent of a player coming off of a mediocre season like Heyward). 90 win teams do it sparingly and usually in July.

WE have payroll? Sign free agents. Or get some long term deals set for the good players we have.

I see a lot of sentiment to trading Montas and/or Danish.... When 60% of the Sox rotation is Carroll, Danks and Noesi and when the bullpen was bottom 5.

Teams like St Louis and San Francisco develop their own players for the most part.

You can't force things. You need a foundation...and it's getting there.

Edited October 24, 2014 by GreenSox

[LDF]

 

I am putting this here, just b/c it was mention that Puig should be

traded for.

 

I knew Puig was big but this pict next to a unknw person. DANG

he is HUGE.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/0...-teams-comeback

 

I would love to see a pict of Puig next to one of those pro wrestler.

[witesoxfan]

As the Sox know all too well. It has worked splendidly.

73 win teams don't trade prospects, much less top prospects, for a rent (esp for a rent of a player coming off of a mediocre season like Heyward). 90 win teams do it sparingly and usually in July.

WE have payroll? Sign free agents. Or get some long term deals set for the good players we have.

I see a lot of sentiment to trading Montas and/or Danish.... When 60% of the Sox rotation is Carroll, Danks and Noesi and when the bullpen was bottom 5.

Teams like St Louis and San Francisco develop their own players for the most part.

You can't force things. You need a foundation...and it's getting there.

 

Heyward is not acquired with the idea of him being a rental. He's acquired with the idea that he's a key piece of that foundation you mention moving forward. Also, I think if you signed Heyward to a 6 year deal, he'd be OK with that because it'd allow him another opportunity at one last large payday, plus you could create an opt out after 4 years too if he felt he could make more at age 30.

 

Free agents are less than ideal because you have to pay beyond a premium for players who are typically on the wrong side of the age curve.

 

Moving forward, you assume that Rodon is apart of that rotation as well. I also see them signing a free agent this year as well.

 

San Francisco has also acquired a ton of their talent as well.

 

There is plenty of reasons to trade prospects for a 26 year old coming off a 5 WAR season who seemingly could improve his game even further.

 

Heyward does make a lot of sense for the White Sox if he's available and if they can sign him to an extension. I feel as though that if they did acquire him, they'd feel quite confident in their ability to sign him long-term.

[cabiness42]

Are we all talking about the Jason Heyward who slugged .384 last year, or is there some other Jason Heyward I'm not aware of who is actually worth giving up prospects for?

[witesoxfan]

Are we all talking about the Jason Heyward who slugged .384 last year, or is there some other Jason Heyward I'm not aware of who is actually worth giving up prospects for?

 

There is power potential in his bat though, he hits for average, draws walk, steals bases, runs the bases well, and is a phenomenal defender. Singling out one statistic that appears to be an outlier as the reason to not acquire someone is a pretty weak argument.

[cabiness42]

There is power potential in his bat though, he hits for average, draws walk, steals bases, runs the bases well, and is a phenomenal defender. Singling out one statistic that appears to be an outlier as the reason to not acquire someone is a pretty weak argument.

 

May not make a bad #2 hitter, but definitely not giving up a Top 10 prospect for him.

[witesoxfan]

May not make a bad #2 hitter, but definitely not giving up a Top 10 prospect for him.

 

He's one of the best defensive outfielders in all of baseball and is a fine hitter with potential to turn into a very good hitter. I'd easily give up a top 10 prospect for him and probably 2 with another piece thrown in on the pretense that you can sign him to a contract extension.

[Bob Sacamano]

Hasn't Heyward batted leadoff a lot the past 2-3 seasons? You can change your approach at the plate depending on where you hit.

[southsider2k5]

Hasn't Heyward batted leadoff a lot the past 2-3 seasons? You can change your approach at the plate depending on where you hit.

 

No better example than Alexei.