OmarComing25 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Even if we win all the remaining games until the trade deadline and the Twins fall back down to earth, we should still trade Samardzija. Rather than pin our hopes on a slim chance at the playoffs, we really need to evaluate Erik Johnson for next year. I'll be extremely disappointed if he stays in the minors the whole season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1h1 hour ago Exec on market: “If you’ve got a hitter, you’ve got gold. If you’ve got a pitcher, you’ve got a hot potato.” Surplus of pitchers available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 11:46 AM) Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1h1 hour ago Exec on market: “If you’ve got a hitter, you’ve got gold. If you’ve got a pitcher, you’ve got a hot potato.” Surplus of pitchers available. So much for that seller's market. Damn Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) What available bats are a good fit for this team and actually available? I can't think of an available catcher who would be a big enough difference maker to motivate the Sox to make a deal. AJ's having a solid season and you could slot him in next to HGeovannyH for an upgrade. Stephen Vogt having a solid season for the A's but since he's controlled through 2019 that's a huge price. Lucroy tops the list but huge price again and he's having a down year. Are we willing to spend Anderson + more to get Lucroy or Vogt? 3b Todd Frazier is the obvious upgrade, but that's a defensive downgrade and another huge price. That'd again have to be Anderson + probably more than 1 of our minor league pitchers. They're not benching LaRoche, they're not benching Abreu, 2b we could make an upgrade but not likely a major bat available since it's 2b (you want to take on Cano's contract?). They're not benching Eaton, Cabrera is never going to live up to his contract since he's a terrible defender but he's hitting well lately so even if you try to upgrade him you might not get big results. The place where you could find someone cheaply, where there are guys who are free agents at the end of the year that might not cost Anderson, is right field. You'd still pay for a guy like Upton, you'd pay less for a guy like Marlon Byrd but get less of an upgrade, but are they ready to send Avi back to AAA? So to get a real upgrade it's either benching someone with a big contract, sending Avi down and replacing him, or going all in and trading Anderson + Montas + more for a major investment. Why would you send Avi down??? He is not blocking anyone ready to come up from AAA. At that same time, it is not like he is not getting to play at the ML level and just sitting on the bench. This is a lost season and ultimately losses are better than wins for the next draft. Avi won't learn anything in AAA that he can't learn in the majors. By the end of this season you can decide if he can play RF or is he destined to be a DH( and do the Sox want him in that role). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 11:50 AM) Why would you send Avi down??? He is not blocking anyone ready to come up from AAA. At that same time, it is not like he is not getting to play at the ML level and just sitting on the bench. This is a lost season and ultimately losses are better than wins for the next draft. Avi won't learn anything in AAA that he can't learn in the majors. By the end of this season you can decide if he can play RF or is he destined to be a DH( and do the Sox want him in that role). That was his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) What available bats are a good fit for this team and actually available? I can't think of an available catcher who would be a big enough difference maker to motivate the Sox to make a deal. AJ's having a solid season and you could slot him in next to HGeovannyH for an upgrade. Stephen Vogt having a solid season for the A's but since he's controlled through 2019 that's a huge price. Lucroy tops the list but huge price again and he's having a down year. Are we willing to spend Anderson + more to get Lucroy or Vogt? 3b Todd Frazier is the obvious upgrade, but that's a defensive downgrade and another huge price. That'd again have to be Anderson + probably more than 1 of our minor league pitchers. They're not benching LaRoche, they're not benching Abreu, 2b we could make an upgrade but not likely a major bat available since it's 2b (you want to take on Cano's contract?). They're not benching Eaton, Cabrera is never going to live up to his contract since he's a terrible defender but he's hitting well lately so even if you try to upgrade him you might not get big results. The place where you could find someone cheaply, where there are guys who are free agents at the end of the year that might not cost Anderson, is right field. You'd still pay for a guy like Upton, you'd pay less for a guy like Marlon Byrd but get less of an upgrade, but are they ready to send Avi back to AAA? So to get a real upgrade it's either benching someone with a big contract, sending Avi down and replacing him, or going all in and trading Anderson + Montas + more for a major investment. If I'm the Sox, I look at upgrading every single position minus 1B with Abreu there. So if it's overpaying for Todd Frazier or Robinson Cano, so be it. This team is not good enough, to put it lightly. And that has to do with the everyday players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 11:59 AM) If I'm the Sox, I look at upgrading every single position minus 1B with Abreu there. So if it's overpaying for Todd Frazier or Robinson Cano, so be it. This team is not good enough, to put it lightly. And that has to do with the everyday players. You could also upgrade 1B and put Abreu at DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Overpaying for Todd Frazier or Cano is the last thing this team needs. Too much hero worship - way too much. And they hit 30 and start crapping 0ut. You buy one of them, you use bullets that could have covered multiple positions and you're stuck some bad contract. That's not how to build a team. The team needs solid major leaguers. That should be the goal. Once you have that, THEN find a hero if that can put you over the top. Solid major leaguers are traded - Cervelli was traded for a relief pitcher; Michael Saunders would have fit perfectly with us (I realize he got hurt) and he was acquired for a 30+ year old who is as mediocre a starter as you can get. Edited July 25, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) Why would you send Avi down??? He is not blocking anyone ready to come up from AAA. At that same time, it is not like he is not getting to play at the ML level and just sitting on the bench. This is a lost season and ultimately losses are better than wins for the next draft. Avi won't learn anything in AAA that he can't learn in the majors. By the end of this season you can decide if he can play RF or is he destined to be a DH( and do the Sox want him in that role). If this team were to want to upgrade to win this year, that's the most obvious position where an upgrade is possible without giving up a huge ransom. I fully agree with you this is a lost season, but then again I would not have done anything this franchise did coming into this year, so until they actually make a move I think is quality I'll continue assuming they'll do things I would judge to be mostly dumb. Also, if you're deciding what you're doing with Avi based on this season alone, the answer is probably going to be to non-tender him. He needs, IMO, at least a full offseason to completely revamp his approach at the plate and his swing if he's going to turn into something decent, he's shown zero signs of improvement this year and nothing he's done would even make him a decent DH. If you're deciding where he goes based on this season it's to the same place viciedo went, someone else's minor leagues. The real question is whether you're willing to play him another full season next year and accept that playing him another full season = a legit rebuilding year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 11:46 AM) Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1h1 hour ago Exec on market: “If you’ve got a hitter, you’ve got gold. If you’ve got a pitcher, you’ve got a hot potato.” Surplus of pitchers available. Tigers can really help their farm system by making a few key guys available (Cespedes, Price, Kinsler, Avila, Davis, Soria) Edited July 25, 2015 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) If this team were to want to upgrade to win this year, that's the most obvious position where an upgrade is possible without giving up a huge ransom. I fully agree with you this is a lost season, but then again I would not have done anything this franchise did coming into this year, so until they actually make a move I think is quality I'll continue assuming they'll do things I would judge to be mostly dumb. Also, if you're deciding what you're doing with Avi based on this season alone, the answer is probably going to be to non-tender him. He needs, IMO, at least a full offseason to completely revamp his approach at the plate and his swing if he's going to turn into something decent, he's shown zero signs of improvement this year and nothing he's done would even make him a decent DH. If you're deciding where he goes based on this season it's to the same place viciedo went, someone else's minor leagues. The real question is whether you're willing to play him another full season next year and accept that playing him another full season = a legit rebuilding year. I do think 2016 is a rebuilding year and 2017 is the year you hope to contend. Even if they trade Q, Shark and LaRoche between now and the start of spring training, the players they acquire will most likely need a year in AAA or play in ML but learning as they go. I would think next year would also be a year we see Johnson and Rodon evolve as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 02:29 PM) I do think 2016 is a rebuilding year and 2017 is the year you hope to contend. Even if they trade Q, Shark and LaRoche between now and the start of spring training, the players they acquire will most likely need a year in AAA or play in ML but learning as they go. I would think next year would also be a year we see Johnson and Rodon evolve as well. I think that, I don't think the organization thinks that. And my fear is it will work out just about as well as this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 #WhiteSox RHP Erik Johnson was starting today at AAA, but not listed anymore, nor on schedule in near future. Something may be in the works. https://twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status/625009949307981824 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Dan Hayes tweeted that EJ has been moved to Tuesday, corresponding to Shark's schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Trust me, Sox will be shipping him to Toronto, so those of you who study it, what would be a proper return from the Jays? What would be the least that would satisfy you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) Trust me, Sox will be shipping him to Toronto, so those of you who study it, what would be a proper return from the Jays? What would be the least that would satisfy you? One of Pentecost/Pompey + a couple lottery tickets. Not expecting both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Trust me, Sox will be shipping him to Toronto, so those of you who study it, what would be a proper return from the Jays? What would be the least that would satisfy you? Would gladly ship Shark & an arm like Putnam to grab a guy like Aaron Sanchez/Jeff Hoffman or even a guy like Pentecost/Pompey and a gamble-type prospects. Yes, I know the Sox already have Fullmer, Montas, Johnson, Adams, & Danish down in the minors as potential starters within the next few years but adding another top notch starting prospect would allow them to trade a piece or two for a hitter instead of spending in FA. Edited July 25, 2015 by SoCalSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) Would gladly ship Shark & an arm like Putnam to grab a guy like Aaron Sanchez/Jeff Hoffman or even a guy like Pentecost/Pompey and a gamble-type prospects. Yes, I know the Sox already have Fullmer, Montas, Johnson, Adams, & Danish down in the minors as potential starters within the next few years but adding another top notch starting prospect would allow them to trade a piece or two for a hitter instead of spending in FA. I don't think they'll have to add a starting pitcher even if they don't add anyone else given how long the list you just wrote is. However, I also would have no issue with Hoffman. Too many young starting pitchers makes it a lot easier to trade one of the other starters in a year or so to fill multiple holes. That said...if they trade Samardzija and they don't get a position player back...that's even more of a commitment to the necessity of 2016 as a full rebuilding year. There's only 5 slots in the starting rotation, can't work 7 different pitchers into those roles to make them trade-worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) I don't think they'll have to add a starting pitcher even if they don't add anyone else given how long the list you just wrote is. However, I also would have no issue with Hoffman. Too many young starting pitchers makes it a lot easier to trade one of the other starters in a year or so to fill multiple holes. That said...if they trade Samardzija and they don't get a position player back...that's even more of a commitment to the necessity of 2016 as a full rebuilding year. There's only 5 slots in the starting rotation, can't work 7 different pitchers into those roles to make them trade-worthy. I may be crazy for thinking it but I truly think Shark will be dealt & re-sign here next year. I'm taking the "get what you can for him" mindset right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) They arent rebuilding in 2016. I think they've made that fairly clear. Edited July 25, 2015 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) I may be crazy for thinking it but I truly think Shark will be dealt & re-sign here next year. I'm taking the "get what you can for him" mindset right now. I will be very, very angry if Jeff Samardzija is re-signed by this team. I don't believe they have $20 million a year to spend...but if they do, give me a position player for God's sake. Heyward or Gordon or someone that will actually help the weaknesses on this team. "The 2016 white sox. Just like last year, but vastly more expensive!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 04:00 PM) They arent rebuilding in 2016. I think they've made that fairly clear. Then they need to get a position player back for Samardzija. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Personally, I really want Gary Sanchez. I'm just not sure how possible that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) Then they need to get a position player back for Samardzija. I'm sure they will. But even if they didnt they still cant rebuild next year.I think someone else would be in the GM spot if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Shark for Sanchez & a guy like Tyler Wade? Not the best with gauging value but could always throw in Putnam to up the value on the Sox side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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