Robin Ventura sacrifice bunted with the 3 hitter in the 7th inning

[OmarComing25]

You mean like Melky's Sac bunt?

Definitely was never a good idea in the first place.

[COACH612]

Definitely was never a good idea in the first place.

 

Neither is having Abreu swing at 3-0. Games are won by having base runners on with others bringing them in. Not homers.

[OmarComing25]

Neither is having Abreu swing at 3-0. Games are won by having base runners on with others bringing them in. Not homers.

Both can win the game, I've never understood the hate for homeruns some people have. And those two scenarios are not the same. 99% of the time bunting is not a good idea, but swinging at 3-0 is often a good idea, because pitchers often throw meatballs right down the middle to avoid the walk (see EJ's last start against the Indians for a great example). If you get a great pitch to hit on that count, swing away.

[fathom]

Both can win the game, I've never understood the hate for homeruns some people have. And those two scenarios are not the same. 99% of the time bunting is not a good idea, but swinging at 3-0 is often a good idea, because pitchers often throw meatballs right down the middle to avoid the walk (see EJ's last start against the Indians for a great example). If you get a great pitch to hit on that count, swing away.

 

It's much more important for the Sox season to have Abreu get confidence than it is for him to draw a walk in the middle innings.

[shysocks]

Just for reference, the MLB totals from last year on the 4th pitch of plate appearances that began with 3-0 counts and were NOT intentional walks.

 

2596 PA

2297 BB (88.5%)

109 H (.378 AVG)

25 HR (8.6% of swings)

216 TB (.750 SLG)

8 HBP (ouch)

8 GIDP (should result in permanent ban from baseball)

 

So compare the .888 OBP to the .750 slugging - you can't really go wrong.

[caulfield12]

Adam Eaton wants to be the next Sox manager!!!! From the Hawk School of Baseball

 

 

“I go home,” says Eaton. “I sit on my dock. I fish. I drink beer. And I relax. I don’t look at anything media. I don’t look at anything that’s written. I don’t even know what slugging percentage is. I don’t follow that. I think it’s people from Harvard that want jobs and want to create jobs and stats. Honestly, I don’t put much emphasis in any of that. I let my eyes tell me what to do.

 

"Even in the outfield, if a guy -- if the stats say he’s going to pull this ball but he’s fouling every ball off to my left, I’m not going to go with the stats, I’m going to go with my gut. For me that’s telltale of a good baseball player. You can look at all the stats and all the sabermetrics that you want but realistically it’s your heart and understanding the game and understanding body language with what you think is best.”

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...-game/85233580/

[COACH612]

It will very interesting to see what everyone has to say about the above post.

[COACH612]

Adam Eaton wants to be the next Sox manager!!!! From the Hawk School of Baseball

 

 

“I go home,” says Eaton. “I sit on my dock. I fish. I drink beer. And I relax. I don’t look at anything media. I don’t look at anything that’s written. I don’t even know what slugging percentage is. I don’t follow that. I think it’s people from Harvard that want jobs and want to create jobs and stats. Honestly, I don’t put much emphasis in any of that. I let my eyes tell me what to do.

 

"Even in the outfield, if a guy -- if the stats say he’s going to pull this ball but he’s fouling every ball off to my left, I’m not going to go with the stats, I’m going to go with my gut. For me that’s telltale of a good baseball player. You can look at all the stats and all the sabermetrics that you want but realistically it’s your heart and understanding the game and understanding body language with what you think is best.”

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...-game/85233580/

 

 

I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this.

[fathom]

No problem with what Eaton said. He's the one playing and has been successful doing things his way. I've never watched him and thought he was unprepared for a certain pitcher/hitter.

[southsider2k5]

That is exactly what I would expect Eaton to say. The other guy I can totally hear talking like that is Chris Sale.

[COACH612]

No problem with what Eaton said. He's the one playing and has been successful doing things his way. I've never watched him and thought he was unprepared for a certain pitcher/hitter.

 

 

You might want to reword what you wrote. Otherwise, it does not make sense. How could you never watch him and think he is unprepared?

[fathom]

You might want to reword what you wrote. Otherwise, it does not make sense. How could you never watch him and think he is unprepared?

 

Meaning I've never seen him while watching him look unprepared.

[COACH612]

Meaning I've never seen him while watching him look unprepared.

 

 

Sorry, I misread what you wrote. And I agree with you. Especially since they put him in RF.

[southsider2k5]

No problem with what Eaton said. He's the one playing and has been successful doing things his way. I've never watched him and thought he was unprepared for a certain pitcher/hitter.

 

Realistically, I don't want my hitters thinking any more than they have to. Stats and strategies are for management and coaches. They might communicate to do something a specific situation, but players just need to play.

[Chisoxfn]

Realistically, I don't want my hitters thinking any more than they have to. Stats and strategies are for management and coaches. They might communicate to do something a specific situation, but players just need to play.

I think his approach isn't necessarily a bad one. He figures, don't outsmart yourself by playing a game with the pitchers and over-analyze the film, instead focus on what you can control and have as good of an approach and swing as possible (which is fully in your control).

[OmarComing25]

I don't have a problem with the players not being super into the stats, that's for the GM and analytics team to do. Do whatever works for you.

[COACH612]

I like what Easton said. Stats are good but sometimes the eye is better. Good and astute players pay attention to details and not just the stats. For instance, if you are in the field and a Right handed batter is swinging late, do you think he will pull? Most likely not. It's small details that help determine what kind of pitch and where the ball will most likely go.

[Y2Jimmy0]

One of Mully and Hanley's producers thinks that the Cubs would struggle to win a WC with Ventura as manager because they are so young still. LOL. That team would win 95 games still.

[Dick Allen]

Teams, according to a graph I saw, score 1 run more often with 2nd and 3rd with 1 out than with 1st and 2nd with no out. They do score more than 1 run less. Bunting is not my thing, but the criticism of the bunt should have ended after it was successful. It was pointed out that Frazier was 1 for 22 at the time. What was missed was Melky was 2 for 22. I don't see how you should have expected Frazier not to do the job, but Melky would have been fine. The Sox were in a position to score a run without getting a hit.

 

[shipps]

One of Mully and Hanley's producers thinks that the Cubs would struggle to win a WC with Ventura as manager because they are so young still. LOL. That team would win 95 games still.

 

That's Dustin Rhodes who is a complete idiot. He says things just to get a reaction as if he is some radio sports shock jock but in reality he is just a producer who gets very little real air time. If he ever got more time on air it would be a travesty.

[Churro Elotes]

Realistically, I don't want my hitters thinking any more than they have to. Stats and strategies are for management and coaches. They might communicate to do something a specific situation, but players just need to play.

 

 

Yogi Berra put it best: You can't think and hit at the same time. The Japanese have a word for it, mushin, which means "no mind." Its a state samurai would go into when they'd have a sword fight. I think you can apply that to hitting.

[bmags]

Teams, according to a graph I saw, score 1 run more often with 2nd and 3rd with 1 out than with 1st and 2nd with no out. They do score more than 1 run less. Bunting is not my thing, but the criticism of the bunt should have ended after it was successful. It was pointed out that Frazier was 1 for 22 at the time. What was missed was Melky was 2 for 22. I don't see how you should have expected Frazier not to do the job, but Melky would have been fine. The Sox were in a position to score a run without getting a hit.

 

It's just that those are two guys in your lineup who can more often get xbh. Anytime you can get two men on for Frazier is a chance for 3RBI.

[southsider2k5]

It's just that those are two guys in your lineup who can more often get xbh. Anytime you can get two men on for Frazier is a chance for 3RBI.

 

The question is are the odds greater of one guy getting a single with one outs or getting either multiple hits or an XBH with no outs. Going off of the win expetancy earlier, the odds of winning actually went up with the successful sacrifice, so it was a statistically sound move.

[caulfield12]

That and the hitter following Frazier on this particular occasion wasn't someone anyone was expecting to come through in the clutch.

 

Plus, Cabrera has always been a much better hitter against RHP with the Sox and was still our best hitter for AVG at the time. Finally, higher probability of an extra base hit than anyone but Frazier and Eaton.

[caulfield12]

The question is are the odds greater of one guy getting a single with one outs or getting either multiple hits or an XBH with no outs. Going off of the win expetancy earlier, the odds of winning actually went up with the successful sacrifice, so it was a statistically sound move.

 

 

But, those odds couldn't possibly take into account in any more than a general way:

 

1) The fact that the White Sox bullpen was a complete mess and hardly a sure bet to hold a 1 run game at the time...along with the feeling that we were playing not to win but being a bit conservative/tentative. Sox typical aren't a contact or execution-oriented team.

2) The fact that Frazier would feel even more pressure to get the job done and expand his strike zone because of who was following him in the line-up.

3) The general vibe of the team with sac bunting over the last 3-4 years, which is that it has more often than not led to frustration rather than success.

4) The odds AFTER an event still don't account for the odds before the bunt of Cabrera actually being able to successfully pull it off, which definitely weren't that much better than 50/50 at best.

Edited June 2, 2016 by caulfield12