Adam Engel

[Dick Allen]

These guys can all play next year, but all of them will have to improve in order for them to be regulars on a team the White Sox will sell as a contender.

 

Engel will have to hit a bit. Leury is going to have to become a bit more baseball savvy. Hanson.....he just isn't a championship calibur player.

[ChiSox59]

These guys can all play next year, but all of them will have to improve in order for them to be regulars on a team the White Sox will sell as a contender.

 

Engel will have to hit a bit. Leury is going to have to become a bit more baseball savvy. Hanson.....he just isn't a championship calibur player.

 

I don't think Hanson will survive the winter on the 40 man.

[witesoxfan]

Trading Melky created an opening in left that Leury slid over from center to fill. But with the emergence of Delmonico, doesn't Leury then slide right back over to center, given that his overall game is better than Engel's? Leury is no slouch defensively, but I think he proved this year that he has a MLB-caliber bat, and therefore I think he's the better option to start next year in center over Engel, at least at this point.

Leury Garcia can theoretically play 6 positions. Make him Zobrist.

[ChiSox59]

Leury Garcia can theoretically play 6 positions. Make him Zobrist.

 

I agree with this. So much value to have him play everywhere. I don't mind him getting ~50% or so of his starts in LF next year, but don't take away his positional flexibility.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

If we have the choice between someone who can't hit, but plays gold glove defense versus someone who can hit, but hurts his pitching staff in CF, give me Engel everytime. With an already bad defense and a young pitching staff, I don't want to make it harder on them than I have to. Engel is a young pitchers best friend in CF the way he turns doubles in the gap into loud outs.

Agreed.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

These guys can all play next year, but all of them will have to improve in order for them to be regulars on a team the White Sox will sell as a contender.

 

Engel will have to hit a bit. Leury is going to have to become a bit more baseball savvy. Hanson.....he just isn't a championship calibur player.

And Anderson should have to improve his defense as well as his offense. Yet he seems to be the anointed starting SS. Why not let him compete for a job like everyone else? Leury is a much better SS and it's his natural position. Defense matters.

[Balta1701]

These guys can all play next year, but all of them will have to improve in order for them to be regulars on a team the White Sox will sell as a contender.

 

Engel will have to hit a bit. Leury is going to have to become a bit more baseball savvy. Hanson.....he just isn't a championship calibur player.

Here's the trick.

 

Let's assume we have: Jiminez, Moncada, Anderson, and Collins as guys who are highly drafted and who take over positions next year. Some of them are going to get a chance to prove themselves whether they earn it or not, and Jiminez is just a monster. Let's also assume the team does not move ABreu but does move Garcia #1 for something useful but not MLB ready. Let's assume that Jiminez does not turn into a dragon and randomly eat any of them.

 

Delmonico

Garcia

Garcia

Hanson

Engel

Cordell

Gillaspie

Sanchez

Saladino

Davidson

Liriano

 

 

I'm probably even forgetting someone. Counting the DH, that's 10 guys for 4 starting positions.

 

If we get 2 starters out of that list, even if one of them is only a DH, that leaves us going into 2019 with a rotation that is about to look loaded, a lineup that is full, depth on the bench, and guys like Rutherford and Robert who are going to be rising up to AA and AAA. Out of 10 guys with talent who made the big leagues, there is a substantial chance that a couple of them will in fact improve enough to become big league regulars, or at the worst bench players. If we can get just 2 starters from that list...we can look at what we have and say "1-2 positions is entirely reasonable to fill on the free agent market and oh look, here's $50 million to do it with".

 

Get me 2 starters and a couple bench players out of that list and my armchair GM job becomes painfully easy.

[Jose Abreu]

I really think we're gonna struggle to find playing time for the borderline guys next year, especially in the OF.

 

Right now, you have Delmonico, Garcia, Garcia, Garcia, Engel, Cordell, and Liriano playing for 3 spots and a DH. There are also guys like Jimenez and Polo who may very well be here by the end of 2018. Even after an Avi trade, I don't see how the Lirianos and Willy Garcias of the world get a fair look- especially if the organization is still so in love with Engel in center.

 

[Dick Allen]

I really think we're gonna struggle to find playing time for the borderline guys next year, especially in the OF.

 

Right now, you have Delmonico, Garcia, Garcia, Garcia, Engel, Cordell, and Liriano playing for 3 spots and a DH. There are also guys like Jimenez and Polo who may very well be here by the end of 2018. Even after an Avi trade, I don't see how the Lirianos and Willy Garcias of the world get a fair look- especially if the organization is still so in love with Engel in center.

It all sorts itself out every time.

[southsider2k5]

Here's the trick.

 

Let's assume we have: Jiminez, Moncada, Anderson, and Collins as guys who are highly drafted and who take over positions next year. Some of them are going to get a chance to prove themselves whether they earn it or not, and Jiminez is just a monster. Let's also assume the team does not move ABreu but does move Garcia #1 for something useful but not MLB ready. Let's assume that Jiminez does not turn into a dragon and randomly eat any of them.

 

Delmonico

Garcia

Garcia

Hanson

Engel

Cordell

Gillaspie

Sanchez

Saladino

Davidson

Liriano

 

 

I'm probably even forgetting someone. Counting the DH, that's 10 guys for 4 starting positions.

 

If we get 2 starters out of that list, even if one of them is only a DH, that leaves us going into 2019 with a rotation that is about to look loaded, a lineup that is full, depth on the bench, and guys like Rutherford and Robert who are going to be rising up to AA and AAA. Out of 10 guys with talent who made the big leagues, there is a substantial chance that a couple of them will in fact improve enough to become big league regulars, or at the worst bench players. If we can get just 2 starters from that list...we can look at what we have and say "1-2 positions is entirely reasonable to fill on the free agent market and oh look, here's $50 million to do it with".

 

Get me 2 starters and a couple bench players out of that list and my armchair GM job becomes painfully easy.

 

If you want to include Tilson as an actual living player, that would be one more option.

 

The dirty secret is almost all of these guys will fail on their own. A good chunk of them have already failed in other organizations which is why the Sox had a chance at them. 2 starters out of that list is a pretty realistic goal.

[he gone.]

And Anderson should have to improve his defense as well as his offense. Yet he seems to be the anointed starting SS. Why not let him compete for a job like everyone else? Leury is a much better SS and it's his natural position. Defense matters.

 

This. I get in trouble sometimes on this board for being too negative - but I don't think Anderson has proved enough to me offensively or defensively or on the base paths to be considered THE solution at SS.

 

That's not to say he cant play a role or be the SS for 3-5 years. I just wouldn't stop drafting infielders early or be against signing a FA in the future

[southsider2k5]

This. I get in trouble sometimes on this board for being too negative - but I don't think Anderson has proved enough to me offensively or defensively or on the base paths to be considered THE solution at SS.

 

That's not to say he cant play a role or be the SS for 3-5 years. I just wouldn't stop drafting infielders early or be against signing a FA in the future

 

Judging by the players they chased during the Great Trade Off, they didn't, and they won't.

[Greg Hibbard]

Here's the trick.

 

Let's assume we have: Jiminez, Moncada, Anderson, and Collins as guys who are highly drafted and who take over positions next year. Some of them are going to get a chance to prove themselves whether they earn it or not, and Jiminez is just a monster. Let's also assume the team does not move ABreu but does move Garcia #1 for something useful but not MLB ready. Let's assume that Jiminez does not turn into a dragon and randomly eat any of them.

 

Delmonico

Garcia

Garcia

Hanson

Engel

Cordell

Gillaspie

Sanchez

Saladino

Davidson

Liriano

 

 

I'm probably even forgetting someone. Counting the DH, that's 10 guys for 4 starting positions.

 

If we get 2 starters out of that list, even if one of them is only a DH, that leaves us going into 2019 with a rotation that is about to look loaded, a lineup that is full, depth on the bench, and guys like Rutherford and Robert who are going to be rising up to AA and AAA. Out of 10 guys with talent who made the big leagues, there is a substantial chance that a couple of them will in fact improve enough to become big league regulars, or at the worst bench players. If we can get just 2 starters from that list...we can look at what we have and say "1-2 positions is entirely reasonable to fill on the free agent market and oh look, here's $50 million to do it with".

 

Get me 2 starters and a couple bench players out of that list and my armchair GM job becomes painfully easy.

 

Is Saladino still a guy who is in contention for a major league spot after this season? Offensively he's been utterly atrocious since April.

 

[Dick Allen]

Hahn said yesterday they are entering the hardest part of the rebuild. Development. There is going to be a lot of failure, hopefully most will overcome it and become great players, but they aren't kidding themselves about several of these guys not being what they hoped. Anderson is in that group, but a lot of times, you have to be bad before you are good. Patience is key. There is a good chance Giolitto and Lopez do some sucking next year, and if Kopech comes up...not everyone is Chris Sale or Frank Thomas.

 

From what I heard about Anderson, it's very encouraging. He knows the mistakes he's making both at the plate and in the field, and wants to clean them up. He's not a guy whose head is in the clouds and thinks he can just stay where he is at and everything will change.

 

It takes time.

[ChiSox59]

Is Saladino still a guy who is in contention for a major league spot after this season? Offensively he's been utterly atrocious since April.

 

Probably for now. If he doesn't have a good first half of next year, he's probably toast. Having an awesome glove helps.

[Dick Allen]

Is Saladino still a guy who is in contention for a major league spot after this season? Offensively he's been utterly atrocious since April.

I was thinking about this last night. I wonder if his back is 100%. Obviously he has nothing at the plate. Nothing at all. Even defensively, he's made some really nice plays, and is so sound fundamentally ( I admire his practicing backhanded flips before games) but he has booted a few this year he normally has no problem with.

[Chisoxfn]

I was thinking about this last night. I wonder if his back is 100%. Obviously he has nothing at the plate. Nothing at all. Even defensively, he's made some really nice plays, and is so sound fundamentally ( I admire his practicing backhanded flips before games) but he has booted a few this year he normally has no problem with.

I'm convinced something is going on with Saladino. He's no world beater at the plate, but he looked more then solid there over the past two years and has completely cliff dived this year to a point beyond expectation. His solidish bat combined with the defense and versatility is a solid depth guy and he hasn't been that. I presume there is more to the story and we will all hear about it in the off-season. Fundamentally he is such a sound player

[Jose Abreu]

Is Saladino still a guy who is in contention for a major league spot after this season? Offensively he's been utterly atrocious since April.

Something tells me this is his last month in a White Sox uniform

[southsider2k5]

Hahn said yesterday they are entering the hardest part of the rebuild. Development. There is going to be a lot of failure, hopefully most will overcome it and become great players, but they aren't kidding themselves about several of these guys not being what they hoped. Anderson is in that group, but a lot of times, you have to be bad before you are good. Patience is key. There is a good chance Giolitto and Lopez do some sucking next year, and if Kopech comes up...not everyone is Chris Sale or Frank Thomas.

 

From what I heard about Anderson, it's very encouraging. He knows the mistakes he's making both at the plate and in the field, and wants to clean them up. He's not a guy whose head is in the clouds and thinks he can just stay where he is at and everything will change.

 

It takes time.

 

I know some have quit on Anderson already, but there are two things in my head.

#1, he is another that was pretty raw when he got here.

#2, the kid just went through the worst year of his life.

 

I really want to give the kid a winter to get away and come back refreshed in 2018.

 

From a SSS point of view, he really has been much better over the last month or so. For August he put up a line of .259/.272/.500/.772. That line including seasons bests of 5 homers and 16 RBI's and 56 TB. It is supported by a realistic to low .312 BABIP. In September he has been even better in just five games.

 

It is also worth mentioning that despite the error total, he has played a much better second half defensively. He had 18 errors in April-> June in 69 games. Since July he has made 8 errors in 54 games. He made 14 errors in 99 games last year. The post July pace is almost identical to his 2016 work where he was a plus defender.

 

Even despite what was about a worst case scenario for about half a season, Anderson is barely under a 0 WAR player, and rising quickly.

[chitownsportsfan]

I know some have quit on Anderson already, but there are two things in my head.

#1, he is another that was pretty raw when he got here.

#2, the kid just went through the worst year of his life.

 

I really want to give the kid a winter to get away and come back refreshed in 2018.

 

From a SSS point of view, he really has been much better over the last month or so. For August he put up a line of .259/.272/.500/.772. That line including seasons bests of 5 homers and 16 RBI's and 56 TB. It is supported by a realistic to low .312 BABIP. In September he has been even better in just five games.

 

It is also worth mentioning that despite the error total, he has played a much better second half defensively. He had 18 errors in April-> June in 69 games. Since July he has made 8 errors in 54 games. He made 14 errors in 99 games last year. The post July pace is almost identical to his 2016 work where he was a plus defender.

 

Even despite what was about a worst case scenario for about half a season, Anderson is barely under a 0 WAR player, and rising quickly.

 

Yea we need to judge him on a curve. He looked like a 4-5 WAR SS last year. He looks like a replacement level shortstop this year. He's done this at 23-24 as a raw prospect. He's probably a 2ish WAR SS true talent wise. This is basically what ZIPS thinks he is. We don't need TA to be a star, we just need him to be a solid everyday regular. That is still a fairly likely outcome for him. Especially as he puts the brutal death of his best friend right as the year is starting behind him.

 

He's had a decent 2nd half: he's been run neutral (according to Fangraphs) at SS and has put together a wRC of 88 while still posting what for him should be an unlucky BABIP of 310ish. If he plays like this next year he's a 2 WAR, solid starting SS. There's no rush and we'll see how it plays out.

[joejoedairy]

I know some have quit on Anderson already, but there are two things in my head.

#1, he is another that was pretty raw when he got here.

#2, the kid just went through the worst year of his life.

 

I really want to give the kid a winter to get away and come back refreshed in 2018.

 

From a SSS point of view, he really has been much better over the last month or so. For August he put up a line of .259/.272/.500/.772. That line including seasons bests of 5 homers and 16 RBI's and 56 TB. It is supported by a realistic to low .312 BABIP. In September he has been even better in just five games.

 

It is also worth mentioning that despite the error total, he has played a much better second half defensively. He had 18 errors in April-> June in 69 games. Since July he has made 8 errors in 54 games. He made 14 errors in 99 games last year. The post July pace is almost identical to his 2016 work where he was a plus defender.

 

Even despite what was about a worst case scenario for about half a season, Anderson is barely under a 0 WAR player, and rising quickly.

 

I realize its too early to relegate Anderson to a platoon player, but I checked and his career numbers are much better against lhp. .802 OPS vs .664 OPS

 

Perhaps next year Leury could start at SS against some tough right handers. Help Anderson and be another option for getting more guys at bats throughout the season.

[Lillian]

Well, if Engel doesn't make the team, perhaps "Da Bears" could use him:

 

[Balta1701]

I realize its too early to relegate Anderson to a platoon player, but I checked and his career numbers are much better against lhp. .802 OPS vs .664 OPS

 

Perhaps next year Leury could start at SS against some tough right handers. Help Anderson and be another option for getting more guys at bats throughout the season.

At the very least, just by virtue of being a first round draft pick - he's going to get the next full season to develop. There's no pressure on him. If he's a position we need to replace, we'll figure that out after another full season, maybe more.

[chitownsportsfan]

At the very least, just by virtue of being a first round draft pick - he's going to get the next full season to develop. There's no pressure on him. If he's a position we need to replace, we'll figure that out after another full season, maybe more.

 

At this point his draft status has very little to do with anything. He produced in the minors and he produced in his half season last year. He had a s*** sophomore year. Doesn't really matter if he was a 5th round pick at this point his talent showed throughout the high minors and it showed last year. His "pedigree" helps, but it's a minor factor at best.

[Lillian]

Back to the topic of this thread; In a previous post, I whimsically dreamed of what a terrific player he'd be, if he could hit even .250, with an OBP

of .330, or better and hit 20 - 25 homers. After watching all of the Youtube videos of some of his catches, from his college days to the present, I'm willing to lower my expectations for his offense. Even if he hit .230 with an OBP of .300 and 15 homers, it would be worth it to keep him in CF.

Add in a few doubles and stolen bases and he would be productive enough to bat 9TH, while playing Gold Glove defense.

 

I've always embraced the old baseball adage, which calls for strength up the middle. Give me great defense behind the plate, at the keystone combo and centerfield, with great pitching. Let the offense come from the corners. This team is going to have productive offense from 2ND, with Moncada and maybe from SS, if Anderson can get back on track. The Sox might even have productive offense from their receivers, if Collins pans out. Why not give Engel a chance to round out his game a little, at least until Robert is ready?