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Manny: Enter the Panic Room

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2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Why 48-72 hours? Those guys will still be there a week, even 2, from now if these guys don't sign until then.

Because then you give the Nationals, Cubs, Dodgers, Cardinals, Padres and other teams more time and options to make a run at Harper...if Machado’s really leaning White Sox, that’s a dangerous position to be in, taking a huge risk you’re not going to end up with either guy.  

Hard for the ownership group to live that one down with the fan base chomping at the bit for TWO.

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If the White Sox are willing to make that offer today, then even if the White Sox say they are walking away, if Manny Machado's side comes back next week and says they'll accept that offer they have every reason to believe the White Sox would say yes. The threat to walk away simply isn't credible from the position the White Sox are in. They're not going to turn down Machado under almost any circumstance. The only true deadline for this franchise is the start of spring training, and agents know that. 

Then what risk is there to the Sox?  That they sign Manny next week to the same deal they are willing to sign him for today?  Reports are that a Machado decision is expected very soon (yes, grain of salt).  I'd prefer to see the Sox go for it now, then to take an attitude of seeing "how things play out."  And there has to be some level of concern/doubt right now in Manny's camp that they'll lose any leverage they have if the Phillies reach an agreement with Harper this weekend.

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24 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

Happy Dan Clark day everyone! 

You may have to change your signature up a bit...some of those names won't even sniff the MLB roster ha.

It's finally happening! Welcome Yoan Moncada, Lucas Giolito, Michael Kopech, Reynaldo Lopez, Luis Basabe, Dane Dunning, Luis Robert, Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Matt Rose, Bryant Fleet, Jake Burger, Gavin Sheets, Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin, Tito Polo, Ti'Quan Forbes, AJ Pucket, Andre Davis, Casey Gillepsie, Ryan Cordell, Nick Madrigal, Steele Walker, Konnor Pilkington(More additions to come)

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4 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

I never meant "take it or leave it"...I meant we are sweeting the pot for this exclusive period...The agent has probably already provided a similar time frame to the teams as well, so this is just amping up the stakes a bit more to get his client a sweetener. 

Once you put something on the table, it doesn't come off.

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2 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

Machado knows that the extra special 24 hour deal will still be on the table in a month if he is unsigned. The Sox aren't spending that money elsewhere. JR isn't going to de-authorize that money at 5pm tomorrow. Lozano would laugh at using that language. No upside to making such an offer, and only potential downside. This only works if the Sox are a potential playoff teams saying "We are either signing you or instead giving big contracts to these 2 guys, leaving no money. If you don't sign with us by tomorrow, we go in the other direction." Right now, there is no other direction for the Sox.

He risks the sox getting into a bidding war with the phillies that pushes both of them out of machado. Machado would literally have no REAL suitors right now if Sox and Phils both go full bore at Bryce. I realize that the loser of Bryce would most likely go back to Machado, but this is a very odd market with very few suitors. It's really unbelievable to be honest. 

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2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

I never meant "take it or leave it"...I meant we are sweeting the pot for this exclusive period...The agent has probably already provided a similar time frame to the teams as well, so this is just amping up the stakes a bit more to get his client a sweetener. 

But that is only a threat if there is an alternative for the Sox. "Either we sign Machado longterm of we add this pitcher for 5 years and the OF for 4." That's not the case. They are signing nobody else. That "pot sweetener" will still be there at a later date, and at that point the Sox will essentially be crawling back to Machado.

 

Also, the longer you let this go on, the more you risk another team making a trade and opening up payroll to sign Machado. So you might alienate Machado, make him stay away for another few weeks, and then have to offer a whole lot more since there's now a new bidder. The Sox would be smart to be persistent, but not do something to alienate Manny. They need Machado a whole hell of a lot more than he needs them.

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3 minutes ago, Saufley said:

Sorry, but did I miss something? The Phillies need to finalize offers in the next 48-72 hours. Why?

Because the Phillies are clearly the team with the most incentive to sign one for this year and next, and the most to lose with fans if they don’t.

White Sox fans are comparatively used to being disappointed.

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1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said:

Then what risk is there to the Sox?  That they sign Manny next week to the same deal they are willing to sign him for today?  Reports are that a Machado decision is expected very soon (yes, grain of salt).  I'd prefer to see the Sox go for it now, then to take an attitude of seeing "how things play out."  And there has to be some level of concern/doubt right now in Manny's camp that they'll lose any leverage they have if the Phillies reach an agreement with Harper this weekend.

If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic?

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1 minute ago, G&T said:

Once you put something on the table, it doesn't come off.

Not true if Rick Hahn goes into the board room during negotiations and drops his nuts on the table.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic?

Manny is not saying no to 350. and if we were indeed 25 million more than the Phillies with a sweetener....he would have already signed after the yankees news came out. 

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3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

He risks the sox getting into a bidding war with the phillies that pushes both of them out of machado. Machado would literally have no REAL suitors right now if Sox and Phils both go full bore at Bryce. I realize that the loser of Bryce would most likely go back to Machado, but this is a very odd market with very few suitors. It's really unbelievable to be honest. 

The White Sox would be stupid to get pulled into that when they created spots for literally 5 players on the active roster because of their connections to Machado...

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1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said:

Manny is not saying no to 350. and if we were indeed 25 million more than the Phillies with a sweetener....he would have already signed after the yankees news came out. 

Fine, if you said "Here's our offer at $280 it's available for 24 hours", and you refused to make it again, and he wound up accepting 7/$250 from the Phillies in 2 weeks, wouldn't you feel really dumb? 

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you put $350 million for Machado on the table with a deadline, and next week he signed for $325 with the Phillies and you got nothing, wouldn't you feel pretty f***ing stupid for your negotiating tactic?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later.  You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions.  If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer.  You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year.

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3 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

Not true if Rick Hahn goes into the board room during negotiations and drops his nuts on the table.

No. Nuts stay on the table. First lesson in negotiating is you might lose your nuts if you aren't careful.

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1 minute ago, G&T said:

No. Nuts stay on the table. First lesson in negotiating is you might lose your nuts if you aren't careful.

Have a feeling we don't have Machado resolution until mid next week

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1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later.  You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions.  If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer.  You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year.

exactly this. If Phils sign with Bryce this weekend, White Sox have no real competition on Manny...unless a "mystery" team is willing to pay more than 275 (which is most likely around our current offer)

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Fine, if you said "Here's our offer at $280 it's available for 24 hours", and you refused to make it again, and he wound up accepting 7/$250 from the Phillies in 2 weeks, wouldn't you feel really dumb? 

Not only that, but you’re unlikely to get much back for Jay, Alonso, Castillo, Nova or Colome when half of their reason for being on the roster just went out the door (especially the first three guys).

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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The White Sox would be stupid to get pulled into that when they created spots for literally 5 players on the active roster because of their connections to Machado...

ever heard of pot odds?  they'd be stupid to invest all that and fold.

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1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

Have a feeling we don't have Machado resolution until mid next week

Well one of our sources may have an update tomorrow.

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Just now, Saufley said:

Well one of our sources may have an update tomorrow.

I think the Harper meeting is going to be pretty influential tomorrow as to what plays out with Machado

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7 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later.  You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions.  If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer.  You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year.

The odds of an ARod like deal with stupid money and Boras conceding this early in the process are pretty low.  That said, there’s a ton of pressure on the Phillies while they have Harper’s full attention to do exactly that.

They probably can’t afford to wait two more years on Trout...and still be stuck treading water in the middle of a contention window as a low 80’s win team.

Edited by caulfield12

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7 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You're not giving a deadline and you're not saying you wouldn't be willing to negotiate later.  You're acknowledging the current uncertainty in the market with a Harper/Phillies meeting that could go in different directions.  If Harper signs with the Phillies tomorrow, why would the Sox up their offer.  You're giving Lozano/Manny a way to mitigate that risk right now if they want by offering the extra year.

Then your 24 hour deadline is not a deadline.

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not only that, but you’re unlikely to get much back for Jay, Alonso, Castillo, Nova or Colome when half of their reason for being on the roster just went out the door (especially the first three guys).

I do agree with this. But all these guys will contribute to the team this year as a bridge to Prospects or new signings next year. I am not saying it's the right move...just simply a move worth thinking about. No one knows if any kind of time frame deals from either side have been addressed.

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6 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

But that is only a threat if there is an alternative for the Sox. "Either we sign Machado longterm of we add this pitcher for 5 years and the OF for 4." That's not the case. They are signing nobody else. That "pot sweetener" will still be there at a later date, and at that point the Sox will essentially be crawling back to Machado.

 

Also, the longer you let this go on, the more you risk another team making a trade and opening up payroll to sign Machado. So you might alienate Machado, make him stay away for another few weeks, and then have to offer a whole lot more since there's now a new bidder. The Sox would be smart to be persistent, but not do something to alienate Manny. They need Machado a whole hell of a lot more than he needs them.

Right, but in the end, all you can do is put your best foot forward and LISTEN to the player/agent's list of desires and you build trust by showing not promising the willingness to accommodate (without hurting your own organization).  You fall back on some negotiation strategies that are built upon reaching mutual agreement and you hope for the best.   You can't overlook the fact that Free Agency is a crapshoot.  You can't force your will and hardball negotiation is a thing of the past.  You are in this together--you share in the risk, and any possible positive outcome that comes of a long-term relationship--together.  Don't ever overestimate your bargaining position and don't ever make assumptions that hinder putting your best foot forward.  Walking away is an acceptable outcome if you have genuinely put your best foot forward and painted your organization in the best light possible while showcasing basic human respect and decency for the person in each free agent and for the sport.  

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