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JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Ivan Nova open to re-signing with the Sox

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Oh, an important question to ask Nova or  whoever they sign in this role, if they do actually fill it, is "are you ok with shifting to the bullpen sometimes". Because the 6th starter will probably spend a portion of the season in the pen as a long man.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

i am also open to working with my current employer next year instead of retiring.

Yeah, I would guess Nova is open to signing with about 30 teams for next season.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

i am also open to working with my current employer next year instead of retiring.

I don't think retirement is on the table at all. He's a 1.5 WAR starter with a good bill of health and a low price tag. 

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1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I don't think retirement is on the table at all. He's a 1.5 WAR starter with a good bill of health and a low price tag. 

Regardless, he's at the bottom end of signings. He's not going to restrict his small amount of suitors.

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12 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

A lot of people have been saying they should add 2 SP: an upper-part of the rotation arm and then a back-end starter. That would let them ease Kopech back in the minors to open the year with going with a rotation of: 1. upper-rotation signing 2. Giolito 3. Cease 4. Lopez 5. back-end SP. Hopefully, you run into the problem of everyone pitching great (and healthy) for when Kopech is ready to come back up and you can bump the back-end SP signing to the bullpen. Maybe Nova can be that guy?

Kopech and Cease are both going to be on innings limits next year.  Obviously having Rodon return mid summer helps that, but having too much pitching isn't a bad thing.  It isn't really a problem.  I'd prefer for the backend guy to be a LHP like Wood, but you can always just trade the guy if you have a log jam, or turn Wood/Nova into the long guy in the pen when Kopech is ready.  Its not really a concern, IMO.  

 

14 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Well, it's a fascinating question, to be honest.  

When you think of this team with only $14M in guaranteed salary on the books so far for next year, coupled with the fact that the MLB average payroll is a little over $136M - and again, that's just the average - there is obviously extraordinary room for growth.  

Under these conditions and under normal circumstances, our major market ball club should absolutely be in the mix for the likes of Cole and Strasburg.  But these conditions existed last offseason, and yet the team failed to land an available premium talent.  In fact, one of the reasons for that failure coming directly from Williams was they couldn't afford to pay either of Machado or Harper because of the need to pay the current core somewhere down the road in a few years.  Will that excuse be in effect again this time around if and when they fail to land a premium free agent?

So I don't know.  It's hard to predict what the payroll will be with this lot running the organization.  I do think there's a fairly strong possibility of the team acquiring expensive top tier talent through a trade where we offer the other team salary relief in return for the top talent.  I think that's more the White Sox way than competing in the open market.  That would catapult us up the ladder in terms of team payroll for next year, but will still likely fall fairly short of the league average.  

Fair. I think the Sox will have at a minimum a $100M payroll next season.  With arb figures, the Sox payroll will be about $45M next season without adding any FA.  That gives them at a minimum $55M in 2020 payroll to add.  

You also only highlighted Cole in my original post - when I also mentioned Stasburg, Ryu and Wheeler.  Obviously some of those guys will be cheaper than others.  I prefer to shoot for Cole, but yah - its going to be tough to outbid the Yankees who surely will be after him.   

I also don't care to rehash last offseason with someone with so much hate for the FO, but if you can't recognize the difference between last offseason and this coming in terms of where the Sox are in the rebuild, then well....its not really worth discussing.  

Edited by ChiSox59

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We need to add a top end starter and a 5th/6th starter for depth this offseason.

It would be nice to do better than Nova for that backend guy but if Nova is back that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.  The crappy thing about this year is that Nova has basically been our #2 starter, not our #5.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech and Cease are both going to be on innings limits next year.  Obviously having Rodon return mid summer helps that, but having too much pitching isn't a bad thing.  It isn't really a problem.  I'd prefer for the backend guy to be a LHP like Wood, but you can always just trade the guy if you have a log jam, or turn Wood/Nova into the long guy in the pen when Kopech is ready.  Its not really a concern, IMO.  

 

Fair. I think the Sox will have at a minimum a $100M payroll next season.  With arb figures, the Sox payroll will be about $45M next season without adding any FA.  That gives them at a minimum $55M in 2020 payroll to add.  

You also only highlighted Cole in my original post - when I also mentioned Stasburg, Ryu and Wheeler.  Obviously some of those guys will be cheaper than others.  I prefer to shoot for Cole, but yah - its going to be tough to outbid the Yankees who surely will be after him.   

I also don't care to rehash last offseason with someone with so much hate for the FO, but if you can't recognize the difference between last offseason and this coming in terms of where the Sox are in the rebuild, then well....its not really worth discussing.  

Well now, don't be too harsh.  I don't "hate" anyone, including this FO.  I just find them frustratingly incompetent at what they do.  There is a difference.  

As it relates to the difference between this coming offseason and the last one, of course I recognize the difference.  Last year we had an extraordinary opportunity to land a generational premium talent without having to compete with any other large market team, and we still failed to do so.  We won't have that opportunity again this offseason, as you pointed out yourself with the reference to the Yankees probably interest in Cole. 

As for the state of the rebuild last offseason, that's actually an irrelevant point to make, as we weren't talking about signing either Machado or Harper to a one year contract, but one that would have covered the entire upcoming window of competitiveness the team is shooting for, and during their prime years, no less.   

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I do hope Wood strings together some good outings to close out year. Back injuries always scare me, his k rate is fine, but he's been pretty hittable to start.

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25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech and Cease are both going to be on innings limits next year.  Obviously having Rodon return mid summer helps that, but having too much pitching isn't a bad thingIt isn't really a problem.  I'd prefer for the backend guy to be a LHP like Wood, but you can always just trade the guy if you have a log jam, or turn Wood/Nova into the long guy in the pen when Kopech is ready.  Its not really a concern, IMO.  

 

Fair. I think the Sox will have at a minimum a $100M payroll next season.  With arb figures, the Sox payroll will be about $45M next season without adding any FA.  That gives them at a minimum $55M in 2020 payroll to add.  

You also only highlighted Cole in my original post - when I also mentioned Stasburg, Ryu and Wheeler.  Obviously some of those guys will be cheaper than others.  I prefer to shoot for Cole, but yah - its going to be tough to outbid the Yankees who surely will be after him.   

I also don't care to rehash last offseason with someone with so much hate for the FO, but if you can't recognize the difference between last offseason and this coming in terms of where the Sox are in the rebuild, then well....its not really worth discussing.  

I know...which is why I acknowledged it's a good problem if you need to figure out who to bump from the rotation when Kopech comes back.

Edited by soxfan2014

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You bring him back because he is a known quantity and pitching depth is essential. More injuries could be- likely be looming. Coop must feel he can work with him at this point.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

After last offseason...being in December and having made no moves would be preferable to being in December and acquiring Alonsos and Jays.

How about if the only moves were resigning Nova and acquiring Brandon Crawford?

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6 minutes ago, wegner said:

How about if the only moves were resigning Nova and acquiring Brandon Crawford?

Ah, the classic Hahn and KW "Friends and Family Plan" eh?

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4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Pass. He's been pitching well lately but his peripherals still suck. No more rebuilding. Let's bring in pitchers who can win.

IMO, bringing back a guy who strikes out less than 6 per 9 innings would be the definition of insanity.  We should strive higher, even at the long reliever spot.

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8 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Ah, the classic Hahn and KW "Friends and Family Plan" eh?

Never change a losing hand :cool:

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

Aim higher. There just is no upside to Ivan Nova. He's been incredibly mediocre and there is no reason to think he'll be better as a 33 year old in 2020. 

Yes this.  He is not built for the juiced ball era.

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Nova has been pitching great since the break. If that keeps up, there will be plenty of demand for his services. The front office will need to anticipate what to expect from him in '20 and possibly beyond (might require multi-year commitment). If his recent performance appears sustainable, I would try to lockhim up before FA season gets underway. If he continues as he has been lately, will cost way more than $5-6M/per.

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8 minutes ago, Flash said:

Nova has been pitching great since the break. If that keeps up, there will be plenty of demand for his services. The front office will need to anticipate what to expect from him in '20 and possibly beyond (might require multi-year commitment). If his recent performance appears sustainable, I would try to lockhim up before FA season gets underway. If he continues as he has been lately, will cost way more than $5-6M/per.

I just don’t think any of this sustainable.  He’s literally striking no one out.  That won’t lead to success in the long-run.

And as someone else pointed out, we couldn’t even get a lottery ticket for him two weeks ago.  We shouldn’t be buying into the smoke & mirrors driving his success right now.

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4 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Bringing Nova back is  doing the half ass crap we tend to rely on every off-season. 

Need to grab a front line starter, whatever it takes.  If I have to put this $5-6 million from Nova towards that pitcher, do it. 

I can figure out the #6 later, but give me a #1 (Cole or Bumgarner) 

 

 

Is Bumgarner really a #1 at this point? His ERA has continued to get worse for the last few seasons iirc

Edited by soxfan49

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41 minutes ago, wegner said:

How about if the only moves were resigning Nova and acquiring Brandon Crawford?

Doesn't Brandon Crawford stink now?

EDIT-Honestly looking at his stats now he's never been all that good to begin with

Edited by soxfan49

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10 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Doesn't Brandon Crawford stink now?

EDIT-Honestly looking at his stats now he's never been all that good to begin with

That means they could get him cheap and use the savings on his brother in law. :cool:

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12 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Doesn't Brandon Crawford stink now?

EDIT-Honestly looking at his stats now he's never been all that good to begin with

Believe he is somehow related to Gerritt Cole which is why his name was specifically tossed out here haha.

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This is a Sox move the Sox should not be making when there window is opening.  Let somebody else that needs pitching that has high payroll get Nova.

 

He was awful in the first half and those games should matter a little more in 2020.  He was an adequate signing for this years team as he has given you innings and stayed healthy.

We don't have any payroll next year.  A poster said our minimum will be 100 million, that puts the Sox the 6th lowest in baseball and only 9 million more than this year.  Having a payroll just like this years for next year would be a bigger embarassment than missing out on Machado.

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4 hours ago, wegner said:

How ugly would it be on Soxtalk if we are in December of this year and the only person the Sox have signed is Ivan Nova?

I agree with you but he is as good as any #5 or #6 starter available.  I am actually surprised this thread has more or less showed an openness to consider him.  If we have Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Cole, Nova & Dunning we can make it work.  We will also have an improved offense and defense with Robert & Madrigal.  Frankly...I would like our chances.

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5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I agree with you but he is as good as any #5 or #6 starter available.  I am actually surprised this thread has more or less showed an openness to consider him.  If we have Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Cole, Nova & Dunning we can make it work.  We will also have an improved offense and defense with Robert & Madrigal.  Frankly...I would like our chances.

I actually do not mind if the Sox bring back Nova at a reasonable cost, Poppy.  I was just speculating what the mood would be here if come Christmastime, that was the only move done.  I know that I would be disappointed to say the least.

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1 hour ago, wegner said:

I actually do not mind if the Sox bring back Nova at a reasonable cost, Poppy.  I was just speculating what the mood would be here if come Christmastime, that was the only move done.  I know that I would be disappointed to say the least.

That is more than true.  If he is one of the two or tree starters we pick up I will be satisfied if it means the other is premium grade like Cole.  I would still like a RF and several good relievers.  Grandal would also be a good get.  BTW I think Nova will cost about 9 million for 1 year not the 7 some are suggesting.

 

 

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