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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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21 minutes ago, Tony said:

As always ron, thank you for adding depth to the conversation. 

He asked for the cliff notes. That's as concise as it gets.

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21 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Didn’t you hear POTUS last night? We are rounding the turn. It is going away.

Apparently he has said that 36 of the last 54 days.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Apparently he has said that 36 of the last 54 days.

Yeah here we go.

 

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14 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

No offense guys - but the world would be a better place if we stopped just blanketly calling people with different political viewpoints idiots. 

Does being a windsock actually qualify as a political viewpoint though?

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Calling the other guy "idiot" is always the last stage of any political discussion.  This is actually a pretty respectful board and I'm happy to be here.  But the effective vaccine can't get here soon enough.  The masks, not even the fancy ones, don't keep out 100% of the bad bugs, and too many of us won't wear them anyway for whatever reason. Bless us and save us.  I've got stuff I want to do with other people and we already lost almost a year out of our lives.

Edited by Stinky Stanky

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4 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

Calling the other guy "idiot" is always the last stage of any political discussion.  This is actually a pretty respectful board and I'm happy to be here.  But the effective vaccine can't get here soon enough.  The masks, not even the fancy ones, don't keep out 100% of the bad bugs, and too many of us won't wear them anyway for whatever reason. Bless us and save us.  I've got stuff I want to do with other people and we already lost almost a year out of our lives.

We coulda had this dealt with nationwide by June or July with actual leadership. It's going to be 6, 8, maybe more months before we can get most people a vaccine - assuming no setbacks, so might as well be prepped to lose another half a year because of the lack of leadership.

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Whole family got the flu shot today (love how easy they have made it - literally we just pull up in the car, hop out for < 5 minutes and we are done (don't even have to park the car).  Hopefully this years shot is pretty effective against the flu - would be a really good year for that to be the case and for it to be a mild mild flu season.  

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So my new company in New Hampshire announced they are welcoming people back to the office in April, and here I am in Wisconsin thinking there's no way that's going to stick.  It just doesn't make sense to me, why bring people back until the country is in better shape or there is a vaccine being distributed?  I'm definitely biased as I want to buy more time before I have to move but it literally doesn't make sense to me.

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13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

We coulda had this dealt with nationwide by June or July with actual leadership. It's going to be 6, 8, maybe more months before we can get most people a vaccine - assuming no setbacks, so might as well be prepped to lose another half a year because of the lack of leadership.

And with the vaccine, there are potentially many setbacks. First, there has to be a coordinated plan to administer the vaccine. Secondly, we will have to deal with some who will not take any vaccine. Saying a vaccine is right around the corner only worsens things. The country has to be educated properly for any vaccine to be helpful.

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Devils advocate perspective - there has never been a Corona virus vaccine ...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

Now, there also has never been so much money and man power poured into one, but let's just say it takes longer than expected (as we can attest thus far), or we never get a really successful, safe vaccine for mass rollout - then what is the best path? 

Is it herd immunity? As we're seeing overseas almost no matter what this thing is coming back in full force & from what I've read a lot of these European cities did what many would consider a good/safe job the first time around + subsequent months. 

Maybe we do this so wrong, that ultimately its right? 

 

Just food for thought. This of course the devils advocate point of view, the skip bayless of covid takes. 

 

(disclosure - i'm not saying this is my point of view)

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How well does herd immunity work if reinfection is possible after 3-12 months?

 

The hope at that point would have to be for better treatments of serious illness rather than a protective or sterilizing vaccine.

Edited by StrangeSox

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4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

Remember this prediction. They will change the strategy on Covid once Harris/Biden take over. Things are not going to be better in January IMO so there will be a complete and unilateral nation-wide shutdown where the rules and regulations are so strict it'll make your head spin. Quarantine of the entire USA folks. What that does to the economy? Well, we're gonna find out. But if the covid numbers remain bad on inauguration day, you wait. The quarantine is comin'

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45 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Remember this prediction. They will change the strategy on Covid once Harris/Biden take over. Things are not going to be better in January IMO so there will be a complete and unilateral nation-wide shutdown where the rules and regulations are so strict it'll make your head spin. Quarantine of the entire USA folks. What that does to the economy? Well, we're gonna find out. But if the covid numbers remain bad on inauguration day, you wait. The quarantine is comin'

Funny you ask that. Go read up on what the far east has done economically since they had a full shutdown and reopen. 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Funny you ask that. Go read up on what the far east has done economically since they had a full shutdown and reopen. 

The question is how long Americans will be ordered to stay home. It's definitely going to be a wild period in US history.

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On 10/23/2020 at 11:48 PM, Tony said:

The word he was looking for was....idiots. 

 

Yes, I was avoiding a pejorative label but it goes beyond that.

No doubt some of his supporters are idiots but so are some that are Ridin' with Biden. (For clarification I've voted Dem my entire life.) I don't appreciate being lumped into some left leaning groups and I know some right wingers don't like being labeled with the idiots.

There is a poster here who supported conservative candidates. In the middle of an epic Filibuster argument I realized we didn't disagree on the end result for America.  We disagreed on how to get there. He didn't want people starving, going without medical care etc..  He just supported a different path to that goal. 

I suspect as a society, liberals and conservatives aren't as far apart in the goal as we are in the how to get there. 

I chose to live in an area that is largely liberal in a state that is mostly conservative. I know some hard core conservatives that are holding their noses and voting for Trump. They aren't idiots. They don't like Trump's antics or example but policy wise they can't support Biden. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tony said:

Again, I clarified by saying every Trump supporter isn’t an idiot, that’s not what that post meant. 

I'm sorry, I should have edited mine after reading yours. I do agree there are idiots out there so I didn't necessarily disagree with your earlier post. 

 

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10 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

Devils advocate perspective - there has never been a Corona virus vaccine ...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

Now, there also has never been so much money and man power poured into one, but let's just say it takes longer than expected (as we can attest thus far), or we never get a really successful, safe vaccine for mass rollout - then what is the best path? 

Is it herd immunity? As we're seeing overseas almost no matter what this thing is coming back in full force & from what I've read a lot of these European cities did what many would consider a good/safe job the first time around + subsequent months. 

Maybe we do this so wrong, that ultimately its right? 

 

Just food for thought. This of course the devils advocate point of view, the skip bayless of covid takes. 

 

(disclosure - i'm not saying this is my point of view)

Not sure if you saw the Nature piece linked above, but here's one more: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772167

A quick bit of math based on the available papers. Right now, estimates say that ~10% or less of Americans have been infected during the first 8 months of this thing. Herd immunity levels aren't known, but that paper estimates >60% of individuals are required to make it happen. Even if we just assume immunity lasts years (seems a poor assumption but anyway) - then we are less than 1/6th of the way there. In terms of developing Herd Immunity, we are in the 2nd inning of a 9 inning game. We would have to repeat the last 8 months of carnage 5, 6 more times.

Imagine having to do this - everyone working from home to keep infection rates down, restaurants with capacity limits, bars shut, 50% of school kids taking classes from home, sports leagues with 25% of fans allowed, social distancing and mask wearing - for 3 or 4 more years. 

Want to get there faster? We are, right now once again, starting to see hospitals in areas fill up completely with COVID patients, so if people who need a hospital can't get there, you kill more people. We will get to see that again over the next couple months, and we saw it in New York, Italy, and elsewhere. 

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So to get this straight, the Trump administration pitted state vs  state for PPE like The Apprentice, Governors edition, then told us they had this totally under control. Then said it should be gone by Easter or when it gets warm. Then said by Memorial Day it will all be behind us. Then told us they have this squashed, even declared victory , although there may be little "embers" from time to time to put out, to now telling us, nothing we could do except wait for a vaccine and therapeutics. Oh, and that $100,000 treatment of therapeutics POTUS got, if he gets reelected, that will be available to everyone for free even though there are 25k more new cases every day that the current number of treatments available.. What's not to believe?

 

I do think one of the bigger problems with this pandemic is that it fell on an election year. If it happened last year or next, I don't think wearing a mask would have become a political statement. I think listening to the scientists even if that meant taking longer than the government wanted would have occurred, at least at a more frequent rate. I don't think shopping for a doctor on Fox News who says wearing masks do nothing, and no one would really be that sick would have been a priority to add to the task force.

Edited by Dick Allen
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On 10/24/2020 at 12:25 AM, Chisoxfn said:

No offense guys - but the world would be a better place if we stopped just blanketly calling people with different political viewpoints idiots.  Makes no one better & not productive. Unless you literally think we should live in a world where you can't be friends with someone who has different viewpoints.  Personally - I think that is a boring world and I don't believe things are black and white. 

Different people have different views and I need to respect that - as long as those views aren't fundamental extremist type of positions.  And no - I don't think every person who voted for Trump is an extremist - some certainly are, but many had there reasons and the fact that they voted for that individual does not make them a horrible person.  We will never get ourselves back as a country if we continue to have so many people who have basically put themselves in an echo chamber (it is literally the exact opposite of diversity and is scary).

Tony - I am not saying that is you - but this country is way too polarized and I hate absolute statements like this. The reality is, there were a lot of people who voted for Trump back in 2016 because well, they figured they had been stuck in their situation forever and maybe that situation had gotten worse and over decades they never saw it get better (Democrat, Republican...didn't matter).  So you know what - they decided they wanted to take a shot and go anti-establishment, because you know what, why not, nothing else had helped them (in their own perceived world).  I don't get why people can't empathize and respect that and instead just assume every single person who voted for Trump is a steaming pile of dog, poop.  Some absolutely are - but that is the human race and those people exist on both sides of the voting spectrum.    

I know there are rules in this forum, but your post was thought provoking and I thought I would mention some of what I have been thinking since I think it adds to the discussion quite nicely.

One of the things I have been thinking of post election is how there’s a certain segment of my race and gender (white male) that chooses to emulate the kind of behavior that the president shows towards people of a different persuasion, posting memes and shared posts that fits their views and ganging up with their tribe on anyone who disagrees with them. If the president gets re-elected, I think we will see more of that and that gets in the way of the progress I want to see with unity in the country.

I was very upset when he won in 2016 and critiqued his every move when he entered office. I had the unique opportunity to talk to some of his supporters in person at a work event and heard how they didn’t like being labeled racist, sexist, etc. and have some sought to understand why the electorate voted and continue to vote for him, whether it is immigration, economic situations, etc. I have also done this by reading news of different persuasions and listening to different podcasts on people who support and vote for him to complement hearing views from people who I know don’t.

I still think that labeling others is dangerous since not everyone fits in the same party and has the same beliefs. At the federal level, I voted democratic because I disapprove of the Senate and the administration, but locally, I voted republican because I don’t approve of how the Illinois Democratic Party handles fiscal policy. What I am getting at is there is more nuance to voters and not everyone votes a straight ticket.

As Americans, we have to find a way to engage in a healthy debate or in productive conversion over policy without being tribal, playing whataboutism games or personally attacking others. I also think it is better to adapt diversity and inclusion for the sake of coming together, having empathy for others and trying to understand others. I hope this is what we see because that will make our nation stronger. It might be aspirational but so is the experiment we have had the privilege to live in for hundreds of years.

Edited by The Beast

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