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35thstreetswarm

Rick Hahn, if you read this board: please don't hire a cheater.

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Rick:

Lifelong Sox fan here.  I won't bore you by establishing my bona fides, but suffice it to say that most who know me would agree my devotion borders on pathological.  Opening day is a holiday in my house.  I've hung on the team's every move for decades.

I was excited and encouraged by the decision to move in a new managerial direction.  I won't speak ill of Ricky Renteria, who was by all accounts well liked and led the team to a great season, but I applaud the front office for "thinking big" and readying the team for sustained postseason success.  But I have been shocked to find my feelings of elation quickly turn to terror as rumors have begun swirling about AJ Hinch (or even Alex Cora) as potential hires.  At the risk of revealing my naivete, I had never even considered they could be options.  Perhaps they are not--but in the event there is truth to these rumors I wanted to make my strong feelings known, for whatever that may be worth.

Like many fans, I have been profoundly troubled about the Astros cheating scandal over the past year.  I've been baffled by the lack of accountability for some of its participants.  While I was encouraged by the initial, and appropriate, reaction of shock and revulsion that met the scandal within the baseball world, I have been surprised by how quickly many have changed course and seem willing to "just move on" from an orchestrated scheme of fraud that infected the game's most basic competitive elements.  I have often tried to imagine how I would have managed all this as an Astros fan, and have felt blessed that I never had to confront this question in anything but the abstract. 

So I ask you, please:  don't force me into a similar position now.  There's no question here -- while their roles differed, AJ Hinch and Alex Cora both led a team that cheated its way to a World Series title, then smiled into the camera as they accepted a trophy they knew in their hearts was tainted by fraud.  They were *fired* by other teams--including the *Houston Astros themselves*--for their roles in this scandal.  How could we, as fans, be excited about hiring either of them to stand as the face of the Chicago White Sox franchise?  How would I explain this to my kids?  It is more difficult every day to impress upon them that they must adhere strictly to moral and ethical standards that so many people and institutions brazenly trample when it's expedient.  Please don't foist these ugly dilemmas on us, not in this corner of our lives.  It has taken a century to recover from the Black Sox scandal that darkened this franchise's legacy.  You hold that legacy in your hands now, and at a precarious moment.  Please do not sully this organization for some minuscule (and questionable) perceived marginal competitive advantage.

Go Sox.

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Also feel bad for the poster who has been patiently waiting for him GM interview.  Doesn't look like is going to get his chance again.  :djuhohgif:

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I don’t feel like starting it, but I’d be interested in a fan poll:

Hire Hinch, but not Cora

Hire Cora, but not Hinch

Hire either

Don’t hire either

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I honestly think JR wouldn't hire either one of those guys. He's has always had a thing about character counting. He'd buy out Francona's

contract before that happens.

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3 minutes ago, flavum said:

I don’t feel like starting it, but I’d be interested in a fan poll:

Hire Hinch, but not Cora

Hire Cora, but not Hinch

Hire either

Don’t hire either

I'll go with the bolded choice....& more churros!!!

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It doesn't make it any better (he didn't stop it when he could have), but Hinch wasn't the source of the cheating.  I personally know nothing of his character, or if he learned anything from his experience.  I would expect that if he is hired that the cheating subject is brought up and I would expect that if he is hired that he gives the appropriate response.  (i.e. this should never have happened under my watch, I was wrong that I didn't step in, etc).  I believe people can learn from their mistakes should be given chances.  If he was the main culprit (which based on what I have seen he wasn't) or cheating was in multiple places (I don't believe it was when he was in AZ) then I would call it a pattern.  This doesn't appear to be a pattern.  The bigger question is, how many games would he have won without cheating?  We will never know.  He didn't win in AZ, but I believe he said he learned from that experience and brought that to Houston.  It will be interesting to say the least on what they do here.

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Has anyone thought they may bring in a very experienced bench coach? Even maybe an ex-manager for bench coach, and give the top job to

Paul Konerko?

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who was the last head coach with previous coaching experience who JR hired in either of his organizations?

That probably collectively goes back decades.

On the other hand, the Bulls just hired Billy Donovan so maybe JR is trying something new in his old age

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1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

who was the last head coach with previous coaching experience who JR hired in either of his organizations?

That probably collectively goes back decades.

On the other hand, the Bulls just hired Billy Donovan so maybe JR is trying something new in his old age

Ricky himself.

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3 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

On the other hand, the Bulls just hired Billy Donovan so maybe JR is trying something new in his old age

That would be Reinsdorf's son - not JR himself - who made those decisions.

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I can't believe so many would refuse to give someone a second chance.

To the OP, you said how would you explain this to your kids. Would you not use this as an opportunity to teach that making a mistake is not the end of the world. A mistake was made and the man received and served his punishment and hopefully learned from it and now can receive a second chance if he proves worthy.  

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18 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about his cup of coffee caretaking.  

Nice try at a save, but the puck already flew past you on this one.

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Hire the best person for the job. If that is Hinch or Cora, so be it. 

We won't be up in arms if the Sox bring in Springer to be their right fielder next year.

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If you don't believe in second chances for people who made big mistakes I sure hope you've never done anything wrong in your life ever.

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Just now, Dick Allen said:

I think they probably already have spoken to Hinch and/or Cora.

Seeing as they waited 11 days to can RR, I am sure there was some assurances that guys they were interested were reciprocal in that interest level in the Sox.

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1 minute ago, almagest said:

If you don't believe in second chances for people who made big mistakes I sure hope you've never done anything wrong in your life ever.

Yeah but some people make "mistakes" that are so egregious they have their licenses revoked and are affectively banned from the industries they were a part of.

There is no reason to excuse any non-player in the Astros organization who was aware of the cheating and did nothing to stop it.  Ownership didn't get the axe but should have.  

I sign this petition for Hahn NOT to hire Cora, Beltran or Hinch.  It's not like there aren't probably 50 or 60 guys around baseball in former or current managerial and coaching roles who would be impressive hires at least on paper.  Typically, this organization doesn't follow a proper process, i.e. they fall in love with a guy and listen to a few interviews with other people before they hire the guy they already knew they wanted.  Hopefully this time they actually do their due diligence.

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4 minutes ago, almagest said:

If you don't believe in second chances for people who made big mistakes I sure hope you've never done anything wrong in your life ever.

I believe in second chances but you can’t ignore what happened. He was caught cheating. He knew of it and as the manager of the team didn’t stop it. That isn’t exactly a sign of good leadership. 

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Just now, YourWhatHurts said:

Typically, this organization doesn't follow a proper process, i.e. they fall in love with a guy and listen to a few interviews with other people before they hire the guy they already knew they wanted.  Hopefully this time they actually do their due diligence.

You have no idea if this is the case here.

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Just now, Dick Allen said:

I believe in second chances but you can’t ignore what happened. He was caught cheating. He knew of it and as the manager of the team didn’t stop it. That isn’t exactly a sign of good leadership. 

Which is why you interview him and ensure your doubts are answered. Nowhere do I advocate for just giving Hinch the job.

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