witesoxfan

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 04:41 PM) Clearly the dude fields phone calls and sends scouts out and works, he's just s***ty at his job and has a s***ty team around him. Players, Coaches, Management All.Bad. save a few. To some extent, he's hit big on free agents (Thomas Jones becoming a competent player wasn't unexpected, but becoming a guy you could argue was a top 8 overall back in the league was pretty far-fetched), and generally when they do hit on picks they, they hit hard. Johnny Knox is the first receiver that I can say is legitimately good in a long, long time, and really that is handicapped because there are still a ton of things Knox does wrong. David Terrell had like one good years, as did Marcus Robinson, as did Bernard Berrian (and in fact, Berrian was pretty much just a deep threat and put up a lot of the numbers he did because Sexy would just chuck it deep, but he was atleast semi-competent). You would think they'd be able to develop one #1 receiver, even if it's in the form of a Steve Johnson or a Derrick Mason...just a good possession receiver who doesn't break away from the defense but runs good, crisp routes and catches balls. Nope. Like I said, I'm not suggesting Angelo is good at drafting - anything but. Just that you were a little overly critical of some of the picks, but what he's done is really unjustifiable and he is no good.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 01:23 AM) How about Danks, AJ & Thornton for Logan Morrison & Chris Volstad? Danks would dominate the NL and be FLA's only LHP in the rotation and would compliment Josh Johnson very well. AJ reunites with Ozzie and gives FLA a quality catcher and lefty bat. Thornton would do well in the NL. LoMo has worn out his welcome with the Marlins. The kid is a stud and would add a nice controlled centerpiece to play LF for years. Volstad is a classic Sox reclamation project. A 1st round pick that never panned out. He's still young and has potential. I believe FLA has probably run out of patience. The Marlins are in aggressive mode with new leadership and a new stadium. The Sox are rebuilding. This deal would make sense for both teams. This is such a bad trade in so many different facets that I'm not sure it's worth breaking down. I'm bored. If Logan Morrison is going to be traded, it's because he had a mediocre to bad year and because he's been trouble for Marlins ownership. His value is down. I'm not sure why the Sox would want him to be viewed as a major trade chip. Chris Volstad, for all the hype he received coming into the league, is the very definition of a mediocre pitcher. He doesn't have a good K rate, not particularly stunning control, allows a lot of hits, and has almost thrown 600 innings in his big league career, so you generally know what you are going to get. John Danks, if you KEEP him, will net you two picks in the top 100 in 2013. Considering that the Sox really don't have room in the rotation for a #4 starter (even assuming Floyd is traded and Buehrle is let go, the Sox can still fill the rotation pretty easily within the system and not have to pay arbitration to Chris Volstad while retaining whoever they want longer than Chris Volstad) and that their outfield is already full for next year, even assuming they trade Quentin (thus, leaving no room for Logan Morrison), I would much rather have the 2 picks as opposed to those two alone for John Danks. In the meantime, you are also giving them AJ Pierzynski and Matt Thornton as well. Considering that the Marlins signed John Buck to a 3 year, $18 million contract last offseason, that means he has roughly 2 years and $12 million left. I'm not sure where they are going to play 2 mediocre $6 million catchers, but I'M SURE OZZIE CAN FIND ROOM. Meanwhile, you are also giving them a very valuable left handed reliever who will have his own value on the open market, even if that value is simply a decent relief prospect. In conclusion, John Danks valuable, Logan Morrison and Chris Volstad no place on White Sox, AJ Pierzynski no place on Marlins, Matt Thornton valuable. This trade bad. EDIT: Morrison was better than I thought last year. This is still a very, very bad trade.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Let's review the last many drafts. 2011 1 29 Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin 2 53 Stephen Paea DT Oregon State 3 93 Chris Conte FS California 5 160 Nathan Enderle QB Idaho 6 195 J.T. Thomas LB West Virginia 1st round - OT Gabe Carimi - too early to call, but the promise is there. The rest? Also too early, but my money is on "complete s***". 2010 3 75 Major Wright FS Florida 4 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 5 140 Joshua Moore CB Kansas State 6 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 7 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M Picks in rounds 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - all are bad. The crown jewel Major Wright is terrible. Did get Jay Cutler, whom they haven't bothered to protect. -Starting LT in the 7th round. What a terrible pick. Even if he has been bad this year and is getting beat constantly, he's shown more in roughly a year than Chris Williams has in 2 years, and they were only drafted some 200 picks apart. J'Marcus Webb is not a bad pick. 2009 3 68 Jarron Gilbert Defensive Tackle San Jose State 3 99 Juaquin Iglesias Wide Receiver Oklahoma 4 105 Henry Melton Defensive End Texas 4 119 D.J. Moore Cornerback Vanderbilt 5 140 Johnny Knox Wide Receiver Abilene Christian 5 154 Marcus Freeman Linebacker Ohio State 6 190 Al Afalava Safety Oregon State 7 246 Lance Louis Tight End / Offensive Lineman San Diego State 7 251 Derek Kinder Wide Receiver Pittsburgh 9 picks, the first of which was a guy who jumps out of swimming pools and never did anything. Johnny Knox in the 5th round was decent. Melton and Moore might wind up as solid starters -getting 2 current starters in rounds 4 and 5 plus another pretty good player in DJ Moore is more than good enough value for those picks. 2008 1 14 Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt 2 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 3 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 3 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 4 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 5 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 5 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 7 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 7 222 Chester Adams OG Georgia 7 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 7 247 Kirk Barton OT Ohio State 7 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 7 picks in the first 5 rounds. Hit their 2nd rounder out of the ballpark with Forte, but hurt themselves just as much with busted 1st and 3rd rounders in Chris Williams and Earl Bennett. With a total of 12 picks, the Bears hit on one of them. -Bennett is a perfectly capable slot receiver. That's legitimate value as a 3rd round pick. Expecting more out of him or a 3rd round pick is asking too much. Yes, it can happen, but you should never grow to expect it. -Kellen Davis is a perfectly capable starting tight end but because of the system, he's generally wasted as a blocker and as a mediocre red zone target (because Martz never gets him out of his stance). 2007 1 31 Greg Olsen Tight end Miami 2 62 Dan Bazuin Defensive End Central Michigan 3 93 Garrett Wolfe Running back Northern Illinois 3 94 Michael Okwo Linebacker Stanford 4 130 Josh Beekman Guard Boston College 5 167 Kevin Payne Strong Safety Louisiana-Monroe 5 168 Corey Graham Cornerback New Hampshire 7 221 Trumaine McBride Cornerback Ole Miss 7 241 Aaron Brant Offensive Tackle Iowa State 9 picks. Greg Olsen at the end of the 1st round... he fell, they made the right pick. Years later, the Bears give away their only productive receiver for a 3rd rounder. Bears take Garrett Wolfe in the 3rd f***ing round. Wow. Corey Graham in the 5th was ok. -The Bears hiring Martz was the worst thing in the world that could have happened to G-Reg. Looking at the entirety of it all, this is probably Angelo's worst draft. 2006 Round Pick Name Position College 2 42 Danieal Manning Safety Abilene Christian 2 57 Devin Hester Cornerback Miami 3 73 Dusty Dvoracek Defensive tackle Oklahoma 4 120 Jamar Williams Linebacker Arizona State 5 159 Mark Anderson Defensive End Alabama 6 195 J.D. Runnels Fullback Oklahoma 6 200 Tyler Reed Guard Penn State Devin Hester in the 3rd round. Obviously a home run. The rest? Daniel Manning was decent. -Mark Anderson in the 5th was quite valuable. Even if it was just for the 1 year, he still put up 12 sacks. That does have value. I don't think I've ever seen someone more overly critical of a front office executive in any post other than this one. He hasn't drafted well - it probably is the worst in the league but there are several others for whom you could make an argument (you know, those teams that haven't made the playoffs in anywhere between 7-13 years?), but there are quite a few players in here that you have ripped to shreds for no reason at all. The biggest two to me are J'Marcus Webb and Earl Bennett. It would be fun, though, to look at every team's draft from the last 5 years like this. How many players do you think are still in the NFL? I'm going to guess that number is anywhere from 50-60%. How many do you think are starters (or play roughly starter's snaps)? I'm going to guess that one is closer to 30%. How many do you think actually pan out? I'm going to guess that is anywhere between 10-20%. I would also suggest that player development has as much to do with the supporting cast - your coaching staff and current players on the team - as it does about actually calling that player's name on draft day. Do you really believe that Austin Collie is a better and more talented player than Juaquin Iglesias, or do you think it may have something to do with the Bears general inability to develop WRs while Peyton Manning could throw to a D3 short, slow WR and still find him in the split second he was open?

I put up like a 700 in my first 4 game set of the year. Didn't have a good strike ball but was picking up my spares really well, which is usually the opposite of how I start the year out. Of course, on the same oil pattern, there were 2 300s and one of those guys put up an 800+ series for 3.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Oct 9, 2011 -> 11:02 AM) What young players have come in and performed well? This sounds more like they want to go with someone on the cheap and bring up an organizational guy. Flowers, De Aza, and Viciedo all looked great upon being promoted last year.

Anyone worked or currently work with the OCC? I had honestly never heard about it - I have no idea how it was never mentioned in any of my classes, but I don't ever recall hearing about it - and am just generally curious about any steps I should take in applying with them.

I took an hour long nap in a parking lot this weekend. When the officer who woke me up asked me if I knew what time it was, I said "6:30...in the morning?" He said no, it's night. He told me that he had an ambulance on the way and that I was going to be taken to the hospital. I told him to call them back and cancel it. He said he couldn't. I proved I was healthy enough and he said that I probably wouldn't need to go to the hospital. So we started walking towards the street. He told me to take it easy, so I started jogging. He asked if I was OK again and I did a 180 and started running backwards. I told him I was fine. I don't think he was too happy with me, but he didn't issue me a ticket.

I have really warmed up to this hiring. Ventura is an incredible leader and if he's anything like he was as a player, the team will perform well next year. Hopefully he does because this hasn't been an AL team since 2006.

I don't see any in between with this move at the very least.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 11:30 AM) What about with Colon's butt fat? Are you suggesting ingestion, injection, or surgical attachment? Because I think all 3 are viable.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 10:06 PM) Beckham, barely hit his weight all year... Viciedo.. Where does he play? Morel.. He played all year, outside of Kenny needing to show Tehan off to trade. De Aza.. See Viciedo. Flowers.. See Viciedo You don't think that Beckham's struggles at all coincide with being on the major league team? It's crazy how good the minor leaguers looked compared to the major leaguers, isn't it? All you wanted were kids anyways. Beckham will play, so it doesn't matter if he barely hit his weight. He's an incredible defender and still has a bit of pop, so hopefully a new hitting coach will change that. Viciedo will play RF. Morel will play 3B and he should see his role increase next year, so hopefully he keeps hitting like he did in September. De Aza will play LF. Flowers will play C and perhaps 1B too. Escobar is on the way, but I think he is more likely to be trade bait or a utility infielder than he is to actually play a significant amount of the time. Any other minor leaguers are too far away to be relevant at this point, but there are some interesting players in the lower minors who should make significant jumps next year. The minor league system is fine and is honestly doing better than it has at any point in the last 3-5 years (which is sad in its own right).

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) Almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear warfare... It just another BUST from KW. Bust huh? Quentin had an MVP year in 2008, a very down year in 2009, a very, very down year in 2010 outside of a 16 game stretch which essentially made him worth his contract, and he had a good overall year this year. In his 4 years with the White Sox thus far, he has accumulated 7 wins - 4.8 his first year, 0 or less the next 2 years, and 2.6 this past year. The player the White Sox traded for Carlos Quentin has a career WAR of -1.3 in 124 PAs and it's entirely possible that he'll never be anything more than a glorified platoon player. The White Sox did not lose this trade, Carlos Quentin was not a bust, and anybody suggesting anything along those lines is wrong. Flat.out.wrong. So, naturally, you would say something like that. --- I expect him to be traded. I'm not expecting a lot, but I do expect them to pick up an athletic player of some type. That seems to be the direction this organization is now looking when it comes to adding minor leaguers. So probably someone up the middle with high upside but with some problems. Or perhaps a pitcher with a lot of upside but some problems, ala Gavin Floyd or Jose Contreras. I'd also expect them to pick up another arm in the deal simply because that's how they roll. So basically a top 6-12 prospect (depending upon the depth of the opposing minor league system, of course) and a semi-high upside arm. That doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 09:48 PM) Even in college it's a bad mix. If he wants a fling, he can get drunk and go after any girl; but, if he REALLY likes this one and wants a relationship, he needs to approach it in a more mature way. I started a 2 and a half year relationship due to being intoxicated beyond belief. Alcohol is a good thing.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 11:05 PM) I know on Baseball Tonite they were ripping Manuel for not walking Pujols. They had no problem with leaving Lee in, just walking Albert with a man on third and first base open. Because it was a stupid decision. Managers f*** up. Some f*** up more than others. Ozzie is in that latter group.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 10:55 PM) I can't believe grown adults, people I respect on here, still think that Ozzie should have benched Rios and Dunn. It slays me. You are gonna be just as frustrated with the new manager when he plays guys who make the loot. Yes of course. But the next manager will put the team in the best position to succeed.

QUOTE (GO CHI SOX! @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:15 PM) Joel Zumaya.. News: Zumaya (elbow) played catch at about 90 feet earlier this week, the Tigers' official site reports. (Sun Sep 11) Spin: Zumaya has been sidelined all season after undergoing exploratory surgery on his right elbow during spring training. Instead of focusing on this year, look for Zumaya to concentrate his efforts on returning to full strength for next season. The 26-year-old reliever will be a free agent this offseason. http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/6392/joel-zumaya I don't think Zumaya has any chance at ever staying healthy again without the aid of PEDs

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:54 PM) Wait, What kids, all the prospects have been traded away for old piles of crap. But, I'm sure that's Ozzie's fault too huh? Gordon Beckham Dayan Viciedo Brent Morel Alejandro De Aza (not exactly a kid, but a minor leaguer) Tyler Flowers That could quite easily be half the lineup where Ozzie would have played maybe 2 out of 5

Vic, have you accepted Quinarvy into your life as your lord and savior?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 1, 2011 -> 10:51 PM) Absolutely. And Buehrle is used to that his whole career. Many people still ask how the hell does a guy with mediocre stuff (and even that is being nice) have 2 no hitters (1 was a perfect game) in his career. I have never understood the idea that Mark Buehrle has mediocre stuff. Individually, all of his pitches are mediocre (or worse), but collectively his "stuff" works extremely well and, coupled with his magnificent command, is what makes him an incredible pitcher. He doesn't have #1 "stuff" - he has #3 "stuff" - but it's not mediocre. He has really bad off days because either he is not locating his fastball (and thus, about 2 other pitches due to that) or his command in general is off. That is why he is capable of throwing 2 no hitters, including a perfect game.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:24 PM) More likely trying to pave the way for a Ramirez trade. Atleast you back up your statements with reasons, absurd as they are. You're still crazy as hell.

QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 10:17 AM) Not what I'm saying. JR has a long track record with the Sox/Bulls. He spends when there is a chance to win and while the business has a chance to make money. The board I think is under-weighting the liklihood that Ozzie returns for a couple reasons. Again, an opinion. The team is going to stink for years to come and is entering a rebuilding process. We are aging, have limited prospects and two very expensive, bad contracts and a pitching staff that is in decline. JR would rather re-sign Ozzie than pay-up to bring in a new, probably more expensive, manager to oversee the rebuilding process when he can bring back Ozzie, who regardless of many of our views, at least draws media attention and has some fan appeal while the team stinks for a period of time. In nomenclature, "when the product is good: invest, invest, invest; when the product is bad: save, save save." I bet you do well on the stock market.

The only bad thing that will come of this is that it will give people even more hope to come back from a big deficit late.

This is too awesome. What a great week of baseball so far.

Omfg. f*** Boston

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) The other constant is Kenny Williams. This organization doesn't do a good job in identifying good offensive players. Yeah, Adam Dunn and his career .243/.374/.503/.876 line is doing a terrible job at identifying a good offensive player. You are so full of s***.