ChiSox59

I'd rather give this guy a shot than sign David Freese.

He throws gas. I like it as a depth move.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) The Dodgers made those moves to eat salary to pick up surplus value elsewhere. Their surplus value in this instance would be giving up very little to acquire Jose Quintana by also eating Adam LaRoche's contract. Do you think it is in the White Sox best interest to negate the possible surplus value they can receive in Jose Quintana by packaging $15 mill in the deadweight contract of Adam LaRoche with him? Adam LaRoche is not going to kill the White Sox financially this year, they may able to acquire at least someone for him at the deadline, and he's clean of their hands at the end of 2016 regardless. To your last point, you are correct that the Dodgers have done crazier things with their money. The White Sox have not. That is a Marlins' sort of move. No, I don't think the scenario you outlined is in the Sox best interest. But I also don't think $13M negates Quintana's surplus value. $13M to the Dodgers is like $100 to you and I. I am not even suggesting the Sox do it. But if they were able to get a package of players including Puig and Barnes for Q, AND were able to dump LaRoche on the Dodgers in the same trade...it may make some sense, but its probably a pipe dream.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 11:47 AM) -The Dodgers have all the money in the world. Why waste your player assets for a 3-4 WAR pitcher when you can just spend $200 million on a 4-5 WAR pitcher? Nevermind that they have no use whatsoever for Adam LaRoche, who has negative value right now. It goes both ways. Yes, the Dodgers have all the money in the world - but they also have several spare/excess pieces that the Sox could use (see my previous post). They may prefer to just go out and sign David Price, or they may prefer to give up a package of players to acquire Jose Quintana and his $8.5M AAV over the next four seasons and LaRoche's $13M in 2016. Saves them a ton of doe to spend elsewhere. Just look at what they did last season...Signed Hector Olivera, ate $28M and traded him; ate the tens of millions owed to Matt Latos, Mike Morse and Bronson Arroyo (all of which had zero and negative trade value). Not saying the Dodgers have interest in LaRoche, but they've done much crazier things with their $. If they really want Q so they can spend their money elsewhere, it wouldn't be all that shocking.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 12:03 PM) I believe I've said this before, but including LaRoche in a deal with Quintana (in theory) only diminishes the value of the return you'd get for Quintana, so I'd shy away from it. Plus, I doubt anyone wants LaRoche, especially NL teams (no DH). That's obvious, but a team like the Dodgers may actually just be willing to eat LaRoches full $13M. Generally, I agree, the Sox would all things equal be able to get more for Q without including LaRoche, but if you can still get a package like Puig plus three of the following players: Van Slyke, Guerrero, Austin Barnes, or other top 10 LAD prospect, it may make some sense. No other team would eat LaRoche's contract without significantly lowering the return, however.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 10:13 AM) oops i didn't see it that way from your all la-sox idea of trading. my bad. I said the Sox basically have to trade Quintana because there is no other realistic way to supplement their offense. But they're not going to waste a top 40 bullet value-wise in all of baseball on an irresponsible and somewhat reckless player and person in Puig in a 1 for 1 swap.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) with the idea of the la - sox trade aside, the sox has too many holes that the owners will not fill thru fa's. so a trade has to come thru the pipeline. that is the only way to fix holes in the roster with maybe 1 major trade of a player and other less significant players being move, to get those missing pieces. Yeah, thats what I just said.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) Hey man, I'm with ya. I've said numerous times I don't think the Sox would or should trade Q. The pitching foundation of Sale,Q and Rodon is about as solid as it gets. Add the potential of Fulmer and Montas and it really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Imo, Puig and his bulls*** are not a fit for the Sox and I really hope the Sox do not trade for him. There are many other players the Sox can look into in an effort to better the team. Besides, while the Sox could use an upgrade in RF I'd rather focus resources on upgrading 3B, SS, C and to a lesser extent 2B. I don't WANT the Sox to trade Q either. But they've put themselves in a situation where they basically have to take him if they want to contend because the offense is so poor. I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if the Sox traded Quintana, but it's not going to be for Puig straight up. They're not going to waste that bullet. The only way I could see something like this happening is a trade another poster suggested previously. Puig Austin Barnes Scott Van Slyke Top 10 prospect in LAD system For Q LaRoche Allows the Sox to move Melky to dh. Outfield defense vastly improves. Saves the $ on Laroches contract to reinvest. I don't think that'll happen - but it's the only way a Puig-Q exchange starts to make sense. But I believe the Sox could and will do better. Think Cole Hamels package plus.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 11:11 PM) I think he's better than Avi but I totally understand your not being sold on Ozuna. I think both Ozuna and Puig come with some risk. I think I lean towards Ozuna because I think it's possible to get him without giving up Q whereas the Dodgers likely push for Q in a deal with the Sox. People need to get this through their minds.... The White Sox are not trading Jose Quintana unless someone gives them an offer they cannot refuse including multiple young, controllable offensive assets. The Dodgers can "push" for Q all they'd like in exchange for Puig - there is no way in hell Hahn makes that trade. If he would make that trade, it'd be done already. Please, enough with the Q for Puig garbage.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:47 PM) By any chance, is there going to be a write-up of potential Rule 5 guys who were left off their respective team's 40 man rosters? Hoes was DFA'd. He won't be in the rule 5 draft, but he can be claimed on waivers...if he makes it to the Sox. Edit: well I suppose he COULD be in the rule 5 draft, but since he was DFA, he will very likely be acquired by another team well before then.

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh. You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond? 1. Gordon 2b 2. Eaton lf 3. Abreu 1b 4. Melky dh 5. Ozuna rf 6. Desmond 3b 7. Trayce cf 8. Flowers c 9. Saladino ss More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson I wouldnt mind this deal, but it'll never happen. But nice post. I like it. That team would be very interesting. Still probably a bat away tho.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Isn't Rosario a terrible defensive catcher? Yes. Horrible. I'd still put in a claim. I bet he doesn't get to the Sox.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) LaRoche was clearly not 100% healthy in the last few months of the season. No one is expecting career averages LaRoche next year, but s*** happens, poor years happen, he was pretty good just two years ago, it's not unthinkable he can bounce back to something like .750-.775 OPS, especially if Robin limits his ABs against LHP, which I think he will (Thompson likely starts those days, with Melky taking the DH spot). You'd sure think so, but it wouldn't be the first time Robin has chosen not to follow clear platoons. Obviously LaRoche didn't play much in the 2nd half, but it wouldn't shock me in the least to see him get starts against LHP early. Melky needs to be the DH as often as possible.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) wow, #3 is a kicker. 3. Jose Abreu and Chris Sale have been announced to appear at 2016 SoxFest. just them no one else. i wonder what that means for someone who loved the limelight last yr like Eaton. Dude, it is November..

Another thought..if the Sox were able to get a guy like Profar at SS, what's the chances of a guy with Andersons skillset transitioning from SS to 3B. Generally an easier position, but with quicker reaction times. I know Anderson is/was widely considered raw at shortstop, but I don't think I've ever really heard anybody talk about him transitioning to the hot corner. Thoughts from those that are more familiar with his defense? Referring more towards 2017 .

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead. Here is my plan for the offseason. • Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton • Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes • Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar • Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal • Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal Lineup: LF - Adam Eaton (L) DH - Melky Cabrera (S) 1B - Jose Abreu ® RF - Yasiel Puig ® 3B - David Freese ® SS - Jurickson Profar (S) 2B - Carlos Sanchez (S) C - Tyler Flowers ® CF - Billy Hamilton (S) Bench: 3B and SS - Tyler Saladino ® OF - J.B. Shuck (L) C - Austin Barnes ® 1B and OF - Scott Van Slyke ® 2B - Micah Johnson (L) Rotation: SP - Chris Sale (L) SP - Carlos Rodon (L) SP - Erik Johnson ® SP - John Danks (L) (He's a placeholder for Carson Fulmer) SP - Doug Fister ® Bullpen - RP - Dan Jennings (L) RP - Zach Duke (L) RP - Zach Putnam ® RP - Jake Petricka ® SU - Nate Jones ® CL - David Robertson ® Although this plan weakens the rotation by losing Quintana, it improves the team in several other areas, including defense and versatility. Lineup - While this lineup doesn't have a whole lot of pop, they do have one thing that White Sox teams haven't had in the recent past - speed and versatility. With several switch hitters and speedsters at the top and bottom of the lineup, this lineup should be able to put pressure on opposing pitching staffs by playing small ball. Don't get me wrong, this team would struggle to hit the ball out of the yard, but contact hitters have been scarce for the Sox over the past few years, and this team would change that. Defense - Taking Melky and Avi out of the outfield and replacing them with Puig and Hamilton improves the outfield defense ten-fold, as that was a huge problem last year. Freese isn't known for his defense, but he has got to be better than Gillaspie/Olt. Profar provides a lot of range up the middle, and I think that he could form a good DP combo with Sanchez. When Anderson comes up, perhaps Profar could shift over to 2nd base or maybe Anderson could become an outfielder. Youth movement - Profar, Hamilton, and Barnes represent young, cheap, and high potential position players that haven't hit their stride yet at the big league level yet, but have the potential to do so. Not trading any notable young players besides Avi, Beck, and Danish ensures that the Sox keep their young talent in tact for the most part. Hopefully guys like Montas, Anderson, Fulmer, etc can contribute in 2017 and beyond, but I'm not counting on any of them to contribute much in 2016 Rotation - Sale and Rodon form a formidable 1-2 duo in this rotation. Starters 3-5 are question marks, but Johnson showed potential last year, not to mention his youth. Fister is a bit of an unknown, but I like him on a 1 year deal. The worst case scenario is that he bombs, and even then, it's only a 1 year deal. If he succeeds, great. Hopefully the Sox will be a spot to contend for a playoff spot, but if not, they can flip him at the deadline as a rental. Danks is purely a placeholder for Fulmer, as he will surely be gone after 2016. Bullpen - This bullpen is almost exactly like the 2015 version. Robertson should provide decent value as a lockdown closer, and I expect Jones to have a nice injury-free season as the setup man. Petricka, Jennings, Putnam, and Duke can be all be very inconsistent at times, but when they're on, they're very good. The bullpen wasn't great last year, but it wasn't as bad as 2014 either. I fully expect Montas to be called up at some point and hopefully be groomed as the future closer. Let me know what you think of these ideas. Thanks. Very well done. This is about exactly what I think the Sox should do and this is a trade I'd be willing to move Quintana in. If you don't get a return like that, you don't trade him. Vastly improves OF defense. IF won't be spectacular, but decent. Not terribly interested in Freese..but all the other moves make sense to me from the Sox standpoint, but that probably means it is a pipedream.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) They should be open to DFA'-ing him. HE HAS AN OPTION!!!!

I'd rather the Sox send him down to AAA or keep him around in case of injury than give him away for nothing. But I'd bet some teams would put some value in him in a larger exchange of players. His potential is tantalizing.

The Sox should give Aubrey Huff a minor league deal. Check out his comeback video: That is one confident man. If we're unable to dump LaRoche and he continues to suck in April and May, it wouldn't be terrible to have a backup LH bat down in AAA.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) He was slightly below average, with a 97 OPS+. how down a year was it? He was worse in 2013. His career average is .748 OPS, 102 OPS+ which is basically average. He's 30. Add his atrocious D to the equation, and he's a below average LF. And then there's the Sox outfield defense. It's horrible. How can Sox ignore that with a)strength of the team is in pitching and the Sox won't put the D out there to support it and b)watching the Royals and Astros this year, who play impeccable OF defense. And watching the Giants the last several years. Sox aren't winning squat with that OF. My comments were based on him being moved to DH. I agree he's brutal in LF.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 04:39 PM) Melky was 49/54 in wRC+ qualified MLB OFers. Fair enough. He sucked last year. I just think the Sox are better off keeping him around as I think he'd got the ability to be a very productive bat, and those don't grow on trees (well, bats do grow on trees), and they aren't cheap.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 03:30 PM) If that's true, then he's tradeable. But I don't think it is. Melky was pretty awful in all aspects last season, including offense. I do agree we need to get him out of the outfield. I think Robertson is tradeable (I was talking about Melky and Laroche in my post above). But early bird gets the worm. SD made out like bandits from a team willing to pay a premium. Robertson isn't quite at that level but he's right below. We've see 2 trades and 2 premium prospect returns. If Hahn has to get a bunch of approvals to make a move, Sox lose their chance. Hahn di$$ed around in July and it cost us. Shark needed to be traded early, if at all. Melky is tradeable, you just wouldn't get anything of real value for him. And he wasn't awful offensively. He wasn't even average offensively. He was slightly above average in a very down year. Look, I am no Melky apologist, but he's a got a pretty good bat. We need to be adding good bats, not subtracting from the few that we have.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I think Melky will have a bounce back year, but their is no way he'd get 2yr 29M on the open market today (coming off of the season he came off of). None...zero. What do you think he'd get? 2 year and $25M? $13.5M AAV is what you get for a pretty average player in free agency today. I suppose I could see him getting somewhere between $20 and $25M on a two year, but I don't see it getting much lower than that. Michael Cuddyer, Billy Butler, Chase Headley, Torii Hunter, and Nick Markakis all got between $10-$13M AAV last offseason. All of which are comparable or worse bats, with equally questionable defense outside of Headley and Markakis. So yeah, $29M may be a bit of stretch, but it's like it is way out of the ballpark.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 08:37 AM) That's fine with me. But dispatching either of those two will require Sox putting up significant cash, which JR does not like to do. ( unless they are part of a bigger trade). I don't think Melky would require the Sox to eat cash, he just wouldn't bring much in value back in return. Robertson has already been covered in the past few posts - but he's pretty much the same story. Melky is signed for 2 more years at $29M. If he were a FA, he would get well in excess of that. Melky is a pretty good hitter, the Sox just need to get him out of the OF everyday. Play out there every now and then, sure, but not everyday. I think Melky has a real nice bounce back year next year - not that his numbers this year were god awful - they really weren't. He is not someone the Sox should be looking to move, they should be, however, figuring out how to slide him over to DH and getting a real corner OF. Problem is, LaRoche is probably immovable without eating 75% or his contract.

I never look at the Diamond Club, and am guessing I am not alone, so I'd be all for it.