SCCWS

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) Wonder if they keep Q and trade Sale or unload both. Albers is the key. If he can throw a complete game shutout tonight , Q is gone as well....................

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) Betts would be one hell of an add. He got hurt last night and had to leave a close game they ended up losing. He is not scratched due to a trade. Doesn't mean he couldn't go in a trade but the knee soreness is real.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) I'd totally be willing to trade him to Boston for a package centered around Moncada. Huh??? You want to trade a top 5 pitcher in baseball for a package centered around a AA 2nd baseman who some project to be a DH in the majors. Time for your parents to take your computer away.

QUOTE (michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) I'm not a young fan...but this is a totally silly comment by you. Baseball in 1960 was a different game. Exactly one team from each division went to the playoffs. From 1957 to 1967 those speed/defense/pitching Sox teams won an average of 90 games a year and went to ONE playoffs. From 63-65 they won 94, 98 and 95 games and never went to the playoffs. IF in that ten season stretch the playoffs were like today...the Sox would have gone to and won a few world series because they had GREAT pitching, defense and speed. In a seven game series they would have beaten the Yankees a few times. But in that day you had to have a fully balanced team. You don't have to do that today. When the Diamondbacks won the WS they had Randy Johnson and Curt Shilling and a juiced up Luis Gonzalez and not much else. We learn every year that it is no longer who had the best team over 162 games as it was before the 1970's...it is who is hot with great starting pitching in the playoffs. Agree totally different era. So go back 5 years and the World Series winners--KC,SF,Boston, SF and StL all had one thing in common....................none had the best Staff ERA in the majors. Boston has won 2 World Series in this era and neither year finished in even the Top 10. You need good pitching and good hitting and usually great hitting or pitching w/o being good in the other area does not work. I think san Fran did it one year w pitching and defense and average offense but it is rare.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) In my opinion, Quintana should be just as valuable. Owed even less money than Sale and has one more year of control than Sale. No way. Q might be 60-75% of Sales's value. But I am convinced Sale is an untouchable for this front office. Probably makes sense since most teams based on what they could/would offer would not be bidders.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't imagine. Thanks If Olney was correct and Sox already turned down a "King's Ransom" for Sale, then he will not be traded regardless of offer. I agree w that strategy.

QUOTE (michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:40 PM) Honestly you are welcome to be as pessimistic as you want. But you are wrong about baseball...go look at the 2012 or 2014 Giants WS champs...their second best hitters were Melky and old sox farmhand Michael Morse. Who was the second best hitter on the 2005 Sox WS team? Jermaine Dye. The secret to all those teams is that they had no terrible hitters and great starting pitchers. We are a C and CF away from being that...and Collins and Engel are our two best looking prospects. Again...it may not work. But its not implausible. This path has worked multiple times in the last dozen years. Sure its nice to have a great offense and great pitching but its not necessary. You have to have balance. You must be a young fan. Read your White Sox history on the Go Go White Sox. They usually had great pitching, solid defense and speed. Unfortunately weak hitting. Over their 10-15 year stretch the Go Go White Sox only Went Went to one World Series. If you were a Strat-o-matic fan in those days you pulled your hair out with that damn offense.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 06:55 PM) I think Rick Hahn has done a good job actually. Some have said our weakness us ar CF and DH. I might add catcher too. I think those positions could be improved through lesser trades and free agent signings. Lesser trades meaning none of our current starters. We have a real decent nucleus I think getting a solid CF and C are not going to be obtained from lesser trades, Like SS, those are premium positions and will require giving up a quality player for each( creating more holes) or a Q-Rodon or Fulmer for 2 highly rated prospects you hope develop.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 06:17 PM) The most valuable people in the NFL are your scouts. The NFL is such a different animal with the salary cap. The window for winning is short. I'd love to know how the Cardinals do things. They rarely have a losing season and even if their season starts out bad they somehow mange to be back in the pack. It insn't just scouts. The Patriots never have a losing season. They have Brady and 50 interchangeable pieces.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that. Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically." We have had Sale and Q the last 4 years in the rotation and how has that worked out for us??? Sale is a keeper but Q will be here 8 years and probably still be a .500 pitcher. He needs to move on and break his .500 curse. I think Boston will take him for prospects and he could win a Cy Young w their offensive support.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 12:16 AM) I'll take another stab at this. Q to Boston for 2B Moncada, OF Benintendi, C Swihart and 3B Devers. (Bad enough seeing Q on the Red Sox but I'd hate to have to see those assholes get Sale. Plus I'd wana send him to the NL) Sale, Robertson to LAD for CF Pederson, LHP Urias, RHP De Leon, C Barnes, and RHP Yadier Alvarez. (Pure stab at this deal. No clue what CWS turned down and want. Now WSD said short of Trout in return lol. So I brought back a potential superstar CF in Joc, potential frontline LHP in Urias who has only scratched the surface, De Leon another potential frontline starter, Barnes a catching prospect which we need badly along with Collins and Alvarez who can hit 98 a power arm prospect). Frazier to NYM for RHP Marcos Molina, OF Brandon Nimmo, and LHP Max Wotell (I just have this feeling he's going to the Mets. Wright is hurt again and this makes a ton of sense). Brett Lawrie to MIA for 2B Avery Romero and 1B Josh Naylor (Lawrie's value intrigues me. Hard to find. Spot to a contender. Can play third and is still very young. Flashed some really nice defense at times). Jose Abreu and Nate Jones to HOU for 1B Reed, RHP Francis Martes, and 2B Tony Kemp Melky Cabrera, James Shields and Chris Beck to TEX for 3B Joey Gallo (with a G not a C sorry had to because I saw a my cousin vinny reference the other night) and RHP Ariel Jurado So that's mine I made the other night on MLB the show. So all in all I think it's pretty good. I'm sure someone will find issues but this is the fun part. Critiquing our ideas. Wasn't sure on some values and returns on guys. That really has to be in the ball park of the Sale trade if it ever happened. Now this season we'd finish awful and be awful for at least another season while guys developed and came up and went through struggles. Hopefully around 2019 we'd start to compete. I really want to be patient and not rush guys during a rebuild. Take lumps and losses and continue to draft high and well which I think we've been doing fairly well. Then with some luck well competing around 2019 and have a stocked up farm system to add to the talented young roster via trade. Then hoepfeully this is a destination free agents we'll see as a future contender like Cubs have done. Imagine if guys developed in our rotation and was something like Rodon, Urias, De Leon, Fulmer, and Adams. Then there's other guys like Guerrero, Martes, Molina, Hansen, Stephens, Burdi. Mix and match how you want with this whole group. Then a lineup of something like this: SS Anderson RF Eaton CF Pederson 1B/DH Collins 2B Moncada 1B/DH Reed 3B Gallo C Swihart or Barnes LF Benintendi Mix and match the lineup how you like. I think Anderson will be a middle of the order bat once he matures. Good pop and lively bat with awesome speed. For now I'll keep him lead off and like Eaton behind him. Sorry but try another stab at it. Swihart is no longer a catcher, before he went on long term disabled list. His catching was a liability so they sent him back to AAA to learn left field. He did play a few games in left at Fenway before getting hurt.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 12:16 AM) I'll take another stab at this. Q to Boston for 2B Moncada, OF Benintendi, C Swihart and 3B Devers. (Bad enough seeing Q on the Red Sox but I'd hate to have to see those assholes get Sale. Plus I'd wana send him to the NL) Sale, Robertson to LAD for CF Pederson, LHP Urias, RHP De Leon, C Barnes, and RHP Yadier Alvarez. (Pure stab at this deal. No clue what CWS turned down and want. Now WSD said short of Trout in return lol. So I brought back a potential superstar CF in Joc, potential frontline LHP in Urias who has only scratched the surface, De Leon another potential frontline starter, Barnes a catching prospect which we need badly along with Collins and Alvarez who can hit 98 a power arm prospect). Frazier to NYM for RHP Marcos Molina, OF Brandon Nimmo, and LHP Max Wotell (I just have this feeling he's going to the Mets. Wright is hurt again and this makes a ton of sense). Brett Lawrie to MIA for 2B Avery Romero and 1B Josh Naylor (Lawrie's value intrigues me. Hard to find. Spot to a contender. Can play third and is still very young. Flashed some really nice defense at times). Jose Abreu and Nate Jones to HOU for 1B Reed, RHP Francis Martes, and 2B Tony Kemp Melky Cabrera, James Shields and Chris Beck to TEX for 3B Joey Gallo (with a G not a C sorry had to because I saw a my cousin vinny reference the other night) and RHP Ariel Jurado So that's mine I made the other night on MLB the show. So all in all I think it's pretty good. I'm sure someone will find issues but this is the fun part. Critiquing our ideas. Wasn't sure on some values and returns on guys. That really has to be in the ball park of the Sale trade if it ever happened. Now this season we'd finish awful and be awful for at least another season while guys developed and came up and went through struggles. Hopefully around 2019 we'd start to compete. I really want to be patient and not rush guys during a rebuild. Take lumps and losses and continue to draft high and well which I think we've been doing fairly well. Then with some luck well competing around 2019 and have a stocked up farm system to add to the talented young roster via trade. Then hoepfeully this is a destination free agents we'll see as a future contender like Cubs have done. Imagine if guys developed in our rotation and was something like Rodon, Urias, De Leon, Fulmer, and Adams. Then there's other guys like Guerrero, Martes, Molina, Hansen, Stephens, Burdi. Mix and match how you want with this whole group. Then a lineup of something like this: SS Anderson RF Eaton CF Pederson 1B/DH Collins 2B Moncada 1B/DH Reed 3B Gallo C Swihart or Barnes LF Benintendi Mix and match the lineup how you like. I think Anderson will be a middle of the order bat once he matures. Good pop and lively bat with awesome speed. For now I'll keep him lead off and like Eaton behind him.

even the "weather gods" have turned against us

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) I don't follow Boston enough, but if the White Sox wanted Nomar Mazara (an early ROY favorite) and prospects from Texas for Sale or Q, they would do it. I think you forget how valuable a starting pitcher with that type of contractual control is. I don't but you might. From a Texas standpoint, as long as I have a viable replacement, I trade him. But if I am Hahn, Mazara is not good enough to be the #1 piece in a trade. He is having a good rookie year but also has been slumping. Then again, he is young. His numbers are not much better than Anderson who is playing a prime position. I would want to see a player like mazara after 1 full season of play not a 1/2 season. I said Betts or Bradley because they have done it for a longer period in the majors and both were All Stars this year. Actually for Sale, it would have to be Bradley since he plays a prime position.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason? There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason. No way. A contender, say the Red Sox, are not going to trade a starting outfielder( Betts or Bradley) in order to get a starting pitcher. They would be willing to trade a minor league package but are not going to open up holes on the ML roster. Sale and/or Q need to bring back some number of ML ready players not just prospects. Now if say a Boston or LA does not make the playoffs, then in the offseason they would be inclined to move a stud for a stud. In addition, in the off-season, there will be more suitors although Sale should bring back a package that most teams might not want to give up.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) I have been debating the pros and cons of trading these guys. Getting rid of both would make the staff very ugly. I think keeping one ace is a good idea. Who would you trade? Sale has greater value in a trade IMO, but they are very similar in terms of quality and worth. Will Q's game age better than Sale's? Judging by their builds and stuff, that is Reasonable thought. I honestly think you trade Sale. Boston would have been perfect for that pitching prospect they just traded and moancada/benintendi + more. A dynamite pitching prospect and hitting prospect is a must if you trade either IMO. All things given, who would you trade and why? Two guys on the same team for 3+ years. Sale is 71-43 and Q is 41-42. Now GM's know Q for some reason gets lousy run support. But two pitchers on the same team with that disparity does not equate to equal quality and worth. Q is lucky to bring back 75% of what Sale would.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 07:45 AM) I woke up this morning with ESPN's Mike and Mike, with Buster Olney on as the guest. Buster talked in detail of Sox trading Sale to either Boston or Texas. Then I went back to sleep. If Boston, only after the season.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) Man if the Indians add Lucroy. This is the time to sell. But can Hahn formulate a competent plan with KW overseeing it? Not so sure. I don't know how involved KW is but I'm sure he's lurking over it. Didn't he tell Hahn no when Hahn wanted to sell Samardzija last June? Injuries to Dodgers and Rangers could help the sox get good returns. That is why Hahn already swooped in on the Carroll deal........................

QUOTE (lord chas @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Hope we can put the $50 to good use Pizza and Beer for the plane ride out of Seattle

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) Teams get desperate towards the end of the deadline, so we'll see. Agree, it will end up being something like Fulmer going for DeAza.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 07:53 PM) Good to see Saldadino get 3 hits...in at bat #s 6, 7, and 8 in July. Wonder how Saladino is at pitch-framing......................

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 12:17 PM) I'm not sure what kind of value Brett Lawrie has. I'd extend him and keep he and Eaton. Keeps those two positions locked down. Lawrie has been what I thought he'd be. Honestly he's what I was hoping Beckham would turn out to be after I knew he wasn't going to be a stud. I'd much rather have Lawrie at second that Sanchez. I agree with a full rebuild I just know this team doesn't like to do it that's why I mentioned maybe keeping one of Q or Sale. I'm just all up in arms about this team so I'm going back and forth about full rebuilds or how they can fix it quicker. That's why I had my 2018 idea about a quicker fix than a full rebuild. I'm not sold on Saladino but he could at least fill a hole temporarily until someone's ready. We have some options down there but not many great ones. I'm hoping Engel can lock down CF next season. I'm all for a full rebuild. It can work. At least I think it can with the way they've been drafting. I am not sure what value Robertson has. Contending teams are always looking for closer types. But I think his salary makes him a problem. I thnk the Sox could unload him but get nothing( low prospect) back. If they eat a chunk of his salary they get a good prospect back. But why eat a chunk of his salary at this point and then have to go out and find a less valuable closer who probably would eat up what you saved by dumping him. Jones did not pass the closer test the last time we needed a closer. Tough positions to be in right now

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) I would definitely trade Robertson. I think he's actually really good. I just don't agree with paying relievers as much as he's being paid. I think they could get a good return for him, Jones or Burdi could get similar results, and the $$ could be spent elsewhere. They could get something for Duke as well. Mid market teams that haven't made the playoffs in 8 years shouldn't be paying closers $11 million per year. If other GM's think he is overpaid, then the return for him will be a low prospect since I don't see the Sox eating a large chunk of cash. If they just want to unload his salary, the return will be minimal.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Here's a concept. I'll just throw this out there. Tell me what you think How about the organization start operating like a big market franchise, instead of a company softball team, and maybe all the second guessing be dramatically reduced? They are not a big market franchise. They are really a medium market and the Cubs are a big market.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Right, Reed is already up and showing power, Bregman is damn near up. McCullers would be in the rotation already. That is 3 players you'd expect up and contributing next year. Then you wait until next year. Reed is hitting .158 so far in his first few weeks. Let's see what he is hitting in Sept before we trade a top 5 pitcher in baseball.