tray

We don't really know any of these pro athletes on a personal level and we don't need to. Feel free to project failure but I'd say you are way off base with your snippy comments about Eloy and predictions on IP by Kopech and Clevinger. I think Eloy will continue to hit like he did after he came back from surgery and I suspect that Kopech comes back a lot stronger after having his leg repaired. There is no reason to mess with those guys.

fixed that Vaughn will probably lead the league in errors at 1B though.

No, just no.

No question. Benny is a pretty good no. 2 hitter on this team. TA + Benny+ Robert is a great top of the order....Benny and the Jets. Eloy could have a lot of RBI as clean-up hitter behind them.

Sign a second basemen next and shut the whiners here up.

I sense a lot of frustration and even some anger. Maybe try to be grateful for what we have in Chicago...and what you have in life. And try to place things in perspective if you can.

So, are the Cubs a "successful franchise" ? Yes of No? Great trade of Cease and Eloy to the Sox...Great trade to get Madrigal. Any Cub fans pining for Rickettes to sell? As much as Cub fans whine, it seems like nothing compared to this. But maybe it is a generational thing. My guess is that most posters here weren't even born when JR bought the W Sox and cannot fully understand the state of the franchise before he acquired it. Old Comiskey was a dilapidated, filthy , dump. Extremely limited parking around the stadium and given its condition and the probable move of the Sox out of town, no incentive for real estate investment in the surrounding area. Saving the Sox for Chicago was critical to the neighborhood and it meant everything for Sox fans. Unfortunately, JR and the late Einhorn made some serious mistakes by firing Harry Carey, moving off channel 9, and selecting an incompetent relative to select the location, the architectural firm and the design for the new stadium. It was and arguably is one of the worst in baseball. JR made some efforts to correct things by cutting rows off the upper deck, changing every seat from the original blue color, adding parking , etc, , and it is now just OK. JR has stayed within a budget not because he is cheap but because it is a business. He feels that spending on player contracts like the LA Angels does not guarantee "multiple championships" That is a promise that Hahn made and one that he has to live with.

"The measure of a successful franchise is winning" Cubs 1900 - 2022 ?

Dude, don't put words in my mouth. Winning at any and all costs is not what it is all about, and it is not sustainable.

The Sox franchise is stronger now...much stronger than when Reinsdorf took over. And it is not even close. That's just a fact. There are 30MLB teams to compete with on the field and many of them are either major market teams, or teams that have over-performed with respect to their market size, like the Rays , KC, or the Cardinals - teams you cannot count on beating in certain years or out-bidding for FA. Did anyone really expect Judge, Correa, Trea Turner to sign here? The measure of a successful franchise over time is stability. That is why the Cubs have many fans even though they barely won one WS in well over 100 years. Any calls from cub fans or Ricketts to sell? Any signs outside of Wrigley? What is with this circular firing squad on the South side about ? Cry babies wanting to win by having an owner who throw money at player contracts every year like a drunken sailor? And what is the true value of winning when the championship has to be bought and paid for? That is a larger question for mlb to address.

The Reinsdorf group have be good stewards of the White Sox franchise for 4 decades. I prefer that stability over a get rich quick billionaire who wants to throw money around and then probably bail like Musk is probably going to do with Twitter. Young people are often consumed by myopic views. The last popular fanboy choice to purchase the White Sox was Mark Cuban. No thanks.

I don't mind having a stable and strong franchise albeit with a team that is mired in mediocrity. The alternative could have long lasting negative impacts on stadium upkeep and improvements, spring training facilities, scouting, advertising, and forcing more and more money out of fans for tickets and cable subscriptions. It isn't worth the crap shoot to go all in with a few mega player contracts. It just isn't.

How about a few more rhetorical questions ?

When the Sox brought Katz back I assumed that part of their intention was to also stick with Gio.

ugh

I still think Sheets has more upside than some others here do. I would like to see him platoon at 1B against RH pitchers and in RF on occasion. This kid could end up being a 30+ HR hitter. He offers the upside of big LH power that has been lacking for years on the Southside. If Vaughn is the other player in a 1B platoon, he becomes less valuable to the Sox and more likely to be traded.

Are you assuming the Sox get nothing in return for these players ?

Gio lost velocity and started hanging his high change-up at times. However, he is an extremely smart player and a guy who has dedicated himself to getting into condition, so it is likely he returns to his earlier level of excellence on the mound. Si I would tend to want Gio back, but not player is un-tradeabl for the right return. Moncada and Vaughn are players that, if traded, might be less of a blow to the offense. Burger could hold down third base until a better option is available. AV's defense at first base is limited by his height/reach and he has not been a big home run threat. Gavin Sheets is a LH hitter that can hold down first base and his hitting has improved. So, given the right return, launch Moncada to an East coast team (Yankees?) and Vaughn to a West Coast team (Dodgers?).

Blue Jays may be looking to make a trade .

Will Montgomery be ready to play SS, 2nd, or 3rd base and hit at the Major league level in 2023 ? Will Colas be ready to play the OF and hit at the major league level in 2023 ? Even if they are not brought up to be in the starting line-up, can they at least be relied on as back-ups or platoon players ? Will their respective performances at Spring Training provide enough additional information for Sox management to make those calls or do these prospects have more to prove at the Minor league level?

The consensus appears to be that the Sox should not offer Abreu a contract reasoning that Vaughn can be the Sox first basemen for several more years. The counterpoint to that is that Abreu might be a better rbi hitter and defensive first basemen during the next three years. There is no right or wrong answer to that. IMO, they should sign Abreu to a short term deal and hold on to Vaughn, using him at 1B/DH and occasionally in the OF as a platoon with a LH hittimg RFer...Colas,or a free agent like Bellinger, Benintendi, etc. Abreu has been our lead RBI guy and is just too important to the team as their leader on and off the field. Fans love the guy. He just puts his head down and plays the game the way it was meant to be played, and he shrugs off bruises and minor injuries. The Sox would not be better without him and I think there will be a lot of pressure on Vaughn to replace what PITO has done.

MK is one of my favorite White Sox, but I continue to believe that he would be better off in the long term as a high leverage Closer who lets it all hand out for an inning or two. He can make plenty of money in that role and have a longer career. That is what Hendriks did in switching to the Closer role. The Sox need more starting pitching but I just don't think MK is a long term solution. So, to be realistic about this, Kopech will be part of the starting rotation in 2023, but if he proves to be less than durable or cannot be available for a play-off run. then maybe opinions change on this, including his own.

Kopech looked like he was starting to gain some extra weight which is not good for his legs or his balance on the mound. He only had a couple of games where he looked like a TOR starter but those were offset by games where he was getting pasted in the first few innings. Kopech cannot be relied on to be part of the starting rotation all season and into the play-offs. Maybe he rehabs and comes back in better shape ready to take the ball every fifth day. I doubt that is going to happen and if that is the case, perhaps there is a better way to deploy him...as a Closer. He has the stuff to go out there for an inning with his hair on fire.

I would consider trading Liam Hendriks and try Kopech at Closer if he would go along with such a plan. Kopech might actually like that role and it would certainly add to his longevity in the game. Leg obviously has to heal after surgery before any plan to rehab is formulated.

I liked the '68 uniforms , especialy the road powder blue.