Rick Hahn open for business

[Bob Sacamano]

According to Nick Cafardo. Hahn is listening on everyone.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/al-c...p;post-id=76412

[Y2Jimmy0]

According to Nick Cafardo. Hahn is listening on everyone.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/al-c...p;post-id=76412

 

 

This isn't surprising. I expect to hear more chatter this week.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Believe it when I see it.

[daggins]

I don't believe this indicates a direction. Hahn also said that they would be looking to add as well as listening on offers for anyone. I genuinely believe they have not picked a direction.

[LittleHurt05]

That's great and all, but he still needs approval from Kenny and Jerry to actually make any of those trades.

[The Beast]

Please God, just get it through their thick heads that it is time to rebuild and get some good players with the right moves. Trade the skinny headcase and get a kings ransom for him and make nobody untouchable. Make some real progress instead of staying stuck in neutral.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SpankyEaton

[gatnom]

I believe he's listening. But, what will he do if nobody is willing to meet his prices? Stand pat? Try to improve the roster?

 

Hahn's prices don't seem to be met often.

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I believe he's listening. But, what will he do if nobody is willing to meet his prices? Stand pat? Try to improve the roster?

 

Hahn's prices don't seem to be met often.

 

If he doesn't get the right offers, I think they attempt to "go for it." What the cutoff date would be and how many guys are off the market? Who knows.

[Eminor3rd]

It makes sense. THis is what many of us have been saying. The market sets the direction. First you must feel out the market.

[Eminor3rd]

Of course it makes sense. It's made sense for 3 years.

 

Them being "Open for Business" is one thing. But what does it matter if your doors are open but you're charging $25 per drink. You'll be out of business soon.

 

The first time I read someone around here say "Yeah, that's less than I think he was worth, but at least we were willing to sell him," I'll concede that the board would be happy with a strategy that ignores the reality of the market.

[Balta1701]

The first time I read someone around here say "Yeah, that's less than I think he was worth, but at least we were willing to sell him," I'll concede that the board would be happy with a strategy that ignores the reality of the market.

If the tiny sliver of tolerable CF and C's on the market get bought out while Rick Hahn is waiting on the market to develop, he will have left himself little choice.

[daggins]

If the tiny sliver of tolerable CF and C's on the market get bought out while Rick Hahn is waiting on the market to develop, he will have left himself little choice.

 

If this happens, they still wouldn't sell for less than they think their guys are worth. You'd just see more like last year, adding "value" FA at the tail end of the cycle in hopes to hit where they didn't last year.

[Balta1701]

If this happens, they still wouldn't sell for less than they think their guys are worth. You'd just see more like last year, adding "value" FA at the tail end of the cycle in hopes to hit where they didn't last year.

And the end result of that - they finish another season around 4th place, they have a bunch of guys get a year older and even hit FA, and Sale and Q's value starts slowly moving down since they're actually only under control for 2-3 years. That would also be a front office faceplant.

[Big Hurtin]

Sure, he'll listen. That doesn't mean Jerry will sign off on it, though.

[daggins]

And the end result of that - they finish another season around 4th place, they have a bunch of guys get a year older and even hit FA, and Sale and Q's value starts slowly moving down since they're actually only under control for 2-3 years. That would also be a front office faceplant.

 

Well, I left out a second part of that post, but you basically said it. If that happens again, I think even Jerry would have to fire some people.

Edited November 6, 2016 by daggins

[caulfield12]

As it stands now, Abreu, Robertson and Fulmer are all worth significantly less than they were a year ago. Rodon hasn't made that big jump forward, either.

 

Frazier's value is probably down a notch or two just by virtue of being one year older and due to his ugly BA. Cabrera had a very solid year but his contract of $15 million for essentially being a DH increasingly works against his value.

 

Then the guys who have increased value, like Jones, Eaton and Anderson...we are unlikely to sell high on. Not to mention you have injury risk to mitigate as well with any pitcher. With Sale, it's even an increased risk that his general temperament issues will cause a non-throwing injury.

 

Those are the risks as non-decisions erode values...kinda how they got into this mess in the first place between major league talent gap, minor league non-development and additional payroll/decreasing revenues pressure.

Edited November 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[SonofaRoache]

We went the youth route a few times and that failed miserably as well. The problem is this organization hires bad managers most of the time and sucks at drafting hitters and trading for them. People want to rebuild but that is no surefire way to be good either. This team is close to competing as is. They just have to open the wallet a little bit more.

[hi8is]

We went the youth route a few times and that failed miserably as well.

When was the last time the White Sox rebuilt?

[The Beast]

When was the last time the White Sox rebuilt?

And was it during the new era of sabermetrics and analytics?

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think Hahn has actually tipped his hand a few times already indicating some sort of a rebuild. Here are my off-season plans in order of likelihood.

 

1. Modified Rebuild. Trade Sale, Robertson, and Melky for sure. Dangle Frazier as well. Sign some free agents to 1 year deals that could be spun later.

2. Add Free Agents without QO's (Castro, Saunders, Lind/Alvarez, Bourjos) etc and sell at the deadline if it doesn't work.

3. Trade Everything now including Sale and Quinatana.

4. Add a ton of payroll and give up a draft pick to do so.

 

I think 1 is most likely. I think Chris Sale is getting traded. I think Melky is getting traded and they'd like to trade David Robertson. Robertson could have more value at midseason though. Frazier could be traded or re-signed. I think Eaton and Quintana will require unattainable packages that don't happen this offseason with 5 and 4 years of respective control left.

[dpd9189]

Not surprised at all. Looking like a rebuild is coming, should be an active offseason.

[spiderman]

I'm not sure what they are going to do - if they even know. It's possible they could split the difference, moving Quintana for 2 or 3 prospects who could potentially speed up the rebuild process, and then add through free agency. I'm not sure a strategy/outcome like that would please anyone know though.

 

[dpd9189]

I think Hahn has actually tipped his hand a few times already indicating some sort of a rebuild. Here are my off-season plans in order of likelihood.

 

1. Modified Rebuild. Trade Sale, Robertson, and Melky for sure. Dangle Frazier as well. Sign some free agents to 1 year deals that could be spun later.

2. Add Free Agents without QO's (Castro, Saunders, Lind/Alvarez, Bourjos) etc and sell at the deadline if it doesn't work.

3. Trade Everything now including Sale and Quinatana.

4. Add a ton of payroll and give up a draft pick to do so.

 

I think 1 is most likely. I think Chris Sale is getting traded. I think Melky is getting traded and they'd like to trade David Robertson. Robertson could have more value at midseason though. Frazier could be traded or re-signed. I think Eaton and Quintana will require unattainable packages that don't happen this offseason with 5 and 4 years of respective control left.

 

I think you're probably right here. As I said earlier they will probably hang on to Q because realistically if the rebuild plan works he will still be on the Sox when they're good again. I think him, Rodon, Eaton and Anderson stay as building blocks but everyone else is fair game.

[Balta1701]

We went the youth route a few times and that failed miserably as well. The problem is this organization hires bad managers most of the time and sucks at drafting hitters and trading for them. People want to rebuild but that is no surefire way to be good either. This team is close to competing as is. They just have to open the wallet a little bit more.

1. This team is no where near competing as it is. They were 15 fWAR behind the Indians this season and even farther behind the Cubs. If we're looking at $7-$8 million per fWAR, then we're talking about needing to spend $100 million to catch up. If they landed Cespedes, Wieters, Fowler, and traded for a reliable starter, they still wouldn't be the favorites in this division.

 

2. You're right, rebuilding is no surefire way to be good either. This management staff sucks at multiple things. But, if like me you've seen them finish in 4th place and 4th place despite their best efforts the last 2 years, you say that this team is not going to win this season without a miracle, especially given that it's the worst FA market in recent memory. Therefore - comparing a path that isn't a sure way to compete but has some chance of competing with a path that requires a miracle to compete, I pick the one that at least has some chance.

[southsider2k5]

1. This team is no where near competing as it is. They were 15 fWAR behind the Indians this season and even farther behind the Cubs. If we're looking at $7-$8 million per fWAR, then we're talking about needing to spend $100 million to catch up. If they landed Cespedes, Wieters, Fowler, and traded for a reliable starter, they still wouldn't be the favorites in this division.

 

2. You're right, rebuilding is no surefire way to be good either. This management staff sucks at multiple things. But, if like me you've seen them finish in 4th place and 4th place despite their best efforts the last 2 years, you say that this team is not going to win this season without a miracle, especially given that it's the worst FA market in recent memory. Therefore - comparing a path that isn't a sure way to compete but has some chance of competing with a path that requires a miracle to compete, I pick the one that at least has some chance.

 

I'd still contend that this team would need a miracle to pull of a successful rebuild on the first try with its lack of resources to carry it through the process. When you look at how many times it took teams like KC, Pittburgh, and company to do it, I don't see the excitement for rebuilding that others do.