Update: Machado met with Sox

[bmags]

Doesn't it seem more 2000-2009 yankees that they need a replacement for SS for half a year and all of the writers are like "oh, well, you need a shortstop for half the year, here is the best shortstop on the market that costs near $300 million over 10 years, perfect fit!".

Not saying they aren't interested, they are. But I think the motivation is lukewarm. He improves their club but becomes a wrecking ball to their financial obligations.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Everyone is going to want Arenado. Waiting for him would be stupid.  

Especially since there is a significant chance that he never becomes a free agent.

[whitesoxwinner]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Doesn't it seem more 2000-2009 yankees that they need a replacement for SS for half a year and all of the writers are like "oh, well, you need a shortstop for half the year, here is the best shortstop on the market that costs near $300 million over 10 years, perfect fit!".

Not saying they aren't interested, they are. But I think the motivation is lukewarm. He improves their club but becomes a wrecking ball to their financial obligations.

Definitely agree with this. While I can see them being desperate to make a move because their rivals won the World Series, they're still a 100 win team and aren't in need of a guy like machado

[bmags]

The white sox operate on a more meaningful 88 year cycle.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Everyone is going to want Arenado. Waiting for him would be stupid.  

He seems like the type of player the Yankees would throw money at. I also wonder how much of the Coors effect pumps his stats. Aren’t his home/away splits pretty drastic?

[justBLAZE]

4 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

He seems like the type of player the Yankees would throw money at. I also wonder how much of the Coors effect pumps his stats. Aren’t his home/away splits pretty drastic?

They are not great.

[Jose Abreu]

3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

He seems like the type of player the Yankees would throw money at. I also wonder how much of the Coors effect pumps his stats. Aren’t his home/away splits pretty drastic?

.984 career Coors OPS, .787 career road OPS. I hope we stay far, far away from him for the price he'll probably require

[Eminor3rd]

5 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Just don't use the current 10 year cycle. Over the  last 10 years, the White Sox have not made the playoffs. Phillies have 3 times w one WS and Yankees 7 times and 1 World Series.  Now maybe you tell Manny that is because we didn't draft him. 

Choosing to look backward instead of forward would be a classically and commonly dumb way to make such an important decision. 

The team’s reputation over recent history is absolutely a factor in how you assess the immediate future, but it’s only one factor. If the past ten years is his primary decision driver, he’s missing the first for the trees in an epic and tragic way. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Just now, justBLAZE said:

They are not great.

Then in that case, coupled with his age, I’d much rather have Manny/Harper.

[Quin]

33 minutes ago, shago said:

Also, have to agree with AJ, would rather have Arenado next year ... not winning in 2019 anyway 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/aj-pierzynski-bothered-manny-machado-what-do-you-mean-you-dont-play-hard-every-day

Yes, AJ, he of the high character 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Choosing to look backward instead of forward would be a classically and commonly dumb way to make such an important decision. 

The team’s reputation over recent history is absolutely a factor in how you assess the immediate future, but it’s only one factor. If the past ten years is his primary decision driver, he’s missing the first for the trees in an epic and tragic way. 

Depends. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams have been around forever. KW inherited a young, cheap team that won the division, and he struggled for a few years. Then won once. These guys don't have a track record of sustained success even when talent was handed to them on a platter.

If you were a player and wanted to win, of what appears to be his choices, right now, the Sox would be last. But, they do have a lot of talent, and when you are as good as these 2 are, you have some ego, you he may feel he is the one that will change things. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Whisox05]

Would rather take machado now. Younger and has played in the AL. Also playing against the tough Yankees and red Sox. Arenado is older and splits aways from coors is sizeable. Last he hit 248/325/447 away against 327/424/681 at home. Plus no guarantee he hits free agency. Machado is now and doesnt cost you a pick

Edited December 18, 2018 by aeichhor

[GREEDY]

Third basemen that had a higher OPS than "Road Arenado" in 2018 

Machado, Muncy, Turner, Bregman Ramirez, Rendon, Carpenter, Chapman, Andujar, Bryant, Freese, Shaw, Camargo, Escobar, Donaldson, Profar

 

 

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Depends. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams have been around forever. KW inherited a young, cheap team that won the division, and he struggled for a few years. Then won once. These guys don't have a track record of sustained success even when talent was handed to them on a platter.

If you were a player and wanted to win, of what appears to be his choices, right now, the Sox would be last. But, they do have a lot of talent, and when you are as good as these 2 are, you have some ego, you he may feel he is the one that will change things. 

Talent handed to him in a platter? A little revisionist history there. Unless you consider that rotation of cal eldred, james Baldwin and bitter parque, and ken hill exceptional

[Bigsoxhurt35]

No way in hell would I want Arenado over Manny. Just don’t trust those Coors Field players much outside of that park. Certainly, do not want to wait a year for a player that’s older than than Manny. I like Arenado just not mega deal like. 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Talent handed to him in a platter? A little revisionist history there. Unless you consider that rotation of cal eldred, james Baldwin and bitter parque, and ken hill exceptional

Not many guys get their GM  start taking over 95 win teams, and ranked with the top farm system.  

[iamshack]

My take on Harper/Machado

[Buehrle>Wood]

5 minutes ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

No way in hell would I want Arenado over Manny. Just don’t trust those Coors Field players much outside of that park. Certainly, do not want to wait a year for a player that’s older than than Manny. I like Arenado just not mega deal like. 

.200 ops difference between home and away says a lot. Granted his road ops is still higher than mannys road ops.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Everyone is going to want Arenado. Waiting for him would be stupid.  

You are absolutely right. The oldest arguments I've been making about the rebuild is the same thing Hahn said. You can't pick and choose when the top guys become available and waiting til after this season and subsequent seasons just keeps diminishing the odds of getting someone . Once Harper and Machado are gone it gets a lot tougher . I'd take Machado over Arenado just because he plays in Colorado where even average player become All Stars. All one has to do is look at Arenado's home and away splits for his career.

Aother huge plus for Machado will be playing in his age 26 season in 2019. If you wait on Arenado it will be his age 29 season in 2020.

[bighurt574]

Right, I'd prefer Arenado but if we have a shot at Harper or Machado and the price is right, you have to go for it.  Can't put all your eggs in that basket.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Especially since there is a significant chance that he never becomes a free agent.

I always discount that factor when discussing superstars. I wouldn't call it a significant chance . Playing for Colorado does mean he's more likely to have a HOF career when his home and away splits are so drastic But i think there's a better chance of him resigning than most superstars because he plays in Colorado.

[OmarComing25]

Judging Rockies hitters on road splits is a bit unfair due to the Coors Hangover effect. I think Arenado would be just fine. Waiting for him would be foolish though.

[nitetrain8601]

39 minutes ago, bmags said:

Doesn't it seem more 2000-2009 yankees that they need a replacement for SS for half a year and all of the writers are like "oh, well, you need a shortstop for half the year, here is the best shortstop on the market that costs near $300 million over 10 years, perfect fit!".

Not saying they aren't interested, they are. But I think the motivation is lukewarm. He improves their club but becomes a wrecking ball to their financial obligations.

I think they are looking for a value deal with Machado or Harper. If they can't get it, they'll wait for Trout.

[Eminor3rd]

17 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Third basemen that had a higher OPS than "Road Arenado" in 2018 

Machado, Muncy, Turner, Bregman Ramirez, Rendon, Carpenter, Chapman, Andujar, Bryant, Freese, Shaw, Camargo, Escobar, Donaldson, Profar

 

 

How did he compare to the “road” versions of all of those players?

[Eminor3rd]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Depends. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams have been around forever. KW inherited a young, cheap team that won the division, and he struggled for a few years. Then won once. These guys don't have a track record of sustained success even when talent was handed to them on a platter.

If you were a player and wanted to win, of what appears to be his choices, right now, the Sox would be last. But, they do have a lot of talent, and when you are as good as these 2 are, you have some ego, you he may feel he is the one that will change things. 

That’s pretty much what I’m saying — the FO track record is absolutely a factor. But it’s just one amongst many, including a wide range of talent across all levels of the organization, everything that comes with choosing Chicago over anywhere else, total dollars on the table, managerial relationship, etc. some of those will change over the course of a contract he’d sign, others won’t.