A Realistic Offseason

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, wegner said:

I've got no axe to grind against Eaton but didn't that home run make the game like 10-2.  Not exactly a clutch homer...he ran into one against one of the Astros lesser relievers.  He was not the reason the Nationals won game 2 and he has not had a good post season otherwise.  They can apologize to Eaton all they want...I will take Giolito, Lopez and Dunning.

The nationals winning a World Series does not mean they ‘won’ the trade. It also doesn’t matter who ‘won’ the trade. The Sox are in a better position now than they were before they traded him. 

Theyve also already got twice as much value from Lopez and Gio than the Nationals have Eaton and there’s still 8 years left for them to do more. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by mqr

[wegner]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

The nationals winning a World Series does not mean they ‘won’ the trade. It also doesn’t matter who ‘won’ the trade. The Sox are in a better position now than they were before they traded him. 

Agreed and well said.  Thanks.

[SoxAce]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

The nationals winning a World Series does not mean they ‘won’ the trade. It also doesn’t matter who ‘won’ the trade. The Sox are in a better position now than they were before they traded him. 

Nothing wrong with it being a win-win for both teams. I'm sure Nationals fans are now thrilled with Eaton helping them get to this point and potentially winning it all.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Nothing wrong with it being a win-win for both teams. I'm sure Nationals fans are now thrilled with Eaton helping them get to this point and potentially winning it all.

Eaton has been about as essential as the beer vendor in regards to the nats success.

[SoxAce]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Eaton has been about as essential as the beer vendor in regards to the nats success.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, SoxAce said:

I just don't think it can be considered a win for the Nats.

The Nats would have been better this year with Giolito in the rotation and a replacement level right fielder. Team outcomes don't really impact the valuation of a trade imo.

If they don't have Eaton, and have Giolito, maybe they don't sign corbin and then they can afford Harper. There's a lot of reasons why value is all that matters in trades.

[mqr]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just don't think it can be considered a win for the Nats.

The Nats would have been better this year with Giolito in the rotation and a replacement level right fielder. Team outcomes don't really impact the valuation of a trade imo.

If they don't have Eaton, and have Giolito, maybe they don't sign corbin and then they can afford Harper. There's a lot of reasons why value is all that matters in trades.

If the Sox hold on and win the division in 2016 the Shields trade was actually good!

Eaton was like a C-, D+ trade that they're not going to have to regret is all. 

Though, FWIW, no way Giolito survives 2018 on the Nats

Edited October 24, 2019 by mqr

[RTC]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's a leader of men in a way Renteria never will be.  And while he has problems with his bullpen decisions have you seen our current manager?  Joe > Rick in every way.

Which is word for word what KW said about Robin.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 hours ago, Tony said:

You're smarter and better than this. They aren't winning fans back this offseason. They've won the offseason multiple times the last few years, and it's done nothing. 

Sox fans have shown us time and time again, when they win, fans show up. They're out there. But they don't show unless the product is good...on the field. They aren't showing up based on headlines. 

true.  i'm just cranky from the bulls loss.

[Boopa1219]

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Speaking of coaching.. I dont know if anyone else saw this yesterday but on MLBnetworks pregame they had Timmy on and Tim must have praised Steverson 5 times in that interview - it almost felt deliberate.

Basically said he rebuilt his swing in the offseason with Steversons guidance.

I understand removing him from out of the MLB dugout but I wouldn’t have minded him staying on in a player development capacity 

[greg775]

7 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I did see that.  I expect a player to be loyal to a guy who helped him.   Did you see after the game, the MLB crew all apologized to Eaton for criticizing the trade at the time and that all that was given up for him was fine. LOL

Gio very good season; Lopez was not good, you'd be wise to say he was average at best. And the third guy has done nothing yet. So we shall see. I do like Gio a lot.

[he gone.]

21 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Backed out of? Sorry if I don't trust a random internet stranger with $1000. 

Hilarious you think it was unreasonable for me not to trust you to pay $1000 just because. Likely you would have disappeared and created a new username. I have the Nats at 12-1 to win it all - bet with a reputable sportsbook that will pay me out immediately at the conclusion of the series. Why wouldn't I bet with an internet stranger instead?!?!?! Gee, I wonder why.

What goal post did I move? My point is the Dodgers were not very high on Grandals defense - this was not a secret. While people cite hes the best defensive catcher in baseball using publicly available metrics, clearly the team (and league in general) don't agree with those metrics. If they did he wouldnt have had a hard time getting more than 60 million dollars - which was his top offer.

Correction - I would be trusting you for the payout since my point was proven during the bet. You had no chance at the $1,000 even going into the Championship series round. 

The trust was on both ends. We both had to trust the other would pay out. You didn't take the bet because you know your point was wrong. Which all ties back to this off-season and any subsequent off-season - the Chicago White Sox, almost regardless to how Robert, Madrigal, Eloy, etc. turn out --  will not be winning a world series unless we have 2 STUD top of the rotation pitchers, or 4 VERY GOOD pitchers. I can't say with confidence that we have met the quota for even ONE - "very good" pitcher yet. Giolito is our best hope. Kopech too. Cease has the chops. There's the talent there, but at the end of the day Grandals, and Gardners and all the people I'm even hoping the Sox sign mean absolutely nothing. Nor does James McCann. Nor does any other FA signing.  It just means we play 2nd place ball like JR wants us to. 

 

[bmags]

Thought we were at the point where we could worry less about winning trades and more about winning games.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Correction - I would be trusting you for the payout since my point was proven during the bet. You had no chance at the $1,000 even going into the Championship series round. 

The trust was on both ends. We both had to trust the other would pay out. You didn't take the bet because you know your point was wrong. Which all ties back to this off-season and any subsequent off-season - the Chicago White Sox, almost regardless to how Robert, Madrigal, Eloy, etc. turn out --  will not be winning a world series unless we have 2 STUD top of the rotation pitchers, or 4 VERY GOOD pitchers. I can't say with confidence that we have met the quota for even ONE - "very good" pitcher yet. Giolito is our best hope. Kopech too. Cease has the chops. There's the talent there, but at the end of the day Grandals, and Gardners and all the people I'm even hoping the Sox sign mean absolutely nothing. Nor does James McCann. Nor does any other FA signing.  It just means we play 2nd place ball like JR wants us to. 

 

Your lack of understand of basic stastics gets me everytime. 

Nationals were the 3rd least favored team going into the playoffs. They're now up 2-0 in the WS. 

Anyone can win once they get there, hence why a Wild Card team can make the World Series.

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Your lack of understand of basic stastics gets me everytime. 

Nationals were the 3rd least favored team going into the playoffs. They're now up 2-0 in the WS. 

Anyone can win once they get there, hence why a Wild Card team can make the World Series.

And did i offer the you nationals in our bet? Nope. Why? Because of Corbin, Scherzer, and Strasburg. I also placed bets on the Nationals at +2500 in early September and +1200 at the beginning of the playoffs. 

There were only a few teams with a claim to WS this year. Astros, Dodgers, Yankees, Nationals. One could make an argument for Cardinals/Rays if all went right, but they were really, really fringe.  The rest --- Braves, Brewers, A's, Twins had almost zero shot. It was no accident that I offered a combination of 5 teams including the Braves, Brewers, A's, Twins and Rays.

[turnin' two]

19 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Speaking of coaching.. I dont know if anyone else saw this yesterday but on MLBnetworks pregame they had Timmy on and Tim must have praised Steverson 5 times in that interview - it almost felt deliberate.

Basically said he rebuilt his swing in the offseason with Steversons guidance.

I didn't see that, but there was an article saying just about the same thing right near the end of the season.

[SCCWS]

19 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just don't think it can be considered a win for the Nats.

The Nats would have been better this year with Giolito in the rotation and a replacement level right fielder. Team outcomes don't really impact the valuation of a trade imo.

If they don't have Eaton, and have Giolito, maybe they don't sign corbin and then they can afford Harper. There's a lot of reasons why value is all that matters in trades. n

You can't assume that. Maybe Gio in the Nats rotation this year would have been the 2018 version we saw.  Like TA took a major step up this season, Gio also made changes that reversed his progress.  

[poppysox]

On 10/24/2019 at 5:34 PM, wegner said:

I've got no axe to grind against Eaton but didn't that home run make the game like 10-2.  Not exactly a clutch homer...he ran into one against one of the Astros lesser relievers.  He was not the reason the Nationals won game 2 and he has not had a good post season otherwise.  They can apologize to Eaton all they want...I will take Giolito, Lopez and Dunning.

Amen.

[ron883]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:08 PM, Thad Bosley said:

The reigning and unanimous recipient of the worst poster of the year award strikes again!

[Middle Buffalo]

I highly doubt the Sox will make an offer to Cole. I think it’s way more likely they sign one or two guys from the next tier, and that would be my preference. A “small market team” like the Sox can’t absorb the hit if Cole doesn’t work out.

I wonder if the Astros will make any attempt to sign Cole with the idea of trading Greinke. If they do, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Sox make a play for Greinke. 

[Flash]

Spitballing that Sox will add $50M for '20 payroll - I think Sox should seek a short term solution for RF until we know what we have with the many minor league candidates in the system. By short term, I mean Joc Pederson. Trade for him, pay him for 2020 (@$10M) and hope one or more of Walker, Rutherford, Basabe, Gonzalez, Adolfo steps up while Joc is hitting 40 bombs. If the youngsters fail to impress and/or Joc proves too valuable to lose to FA, sign him to a multi-year deal or at least make him a QO. I'd be inclined to keep BOTH Leury and Engle. Both can platoon vs. LH pitching and fill in OF until Robert arrives or late inning defensive sub plus Leury can provide IF support. Non-tender Sanchez in favor of Mendick and save a little coin. In addition to Pederson, I'd go aggressively after Cole and Wheeler (I doubt Nats let Stras get away). I'm also skeptical we can attract Cole and hope we don't get into a prolonged auction process for him while someone slips in and locks up Wheeler. It would be disappointing if we don't land a stud pitcher this winter. Assuming Wheeler @$20M, plus $10M for Joc, leaves @$20M to play with (Grandal?) or SP. For me, that would be both a realistic and successful offseason.  

[poppysox]

40 minutes ago, Flash said:

Spitballing that Sox will add $50M for '20 payroll - I think Sox should seek a short term solution for RF until we know what we have with the many minor league candidates in the system. By short term, I mean Joc Pederson. Trade for him, pay him for 2020 (@$10M) and hope one or more of Walker, Rutherford, Basabe, Gonzalez, Adolfo steps up while Joc is hitting 40 bombs. If the youngsters fail to impress and/or Joc proves too valuable to lose to FA, sign him to a multi-year deal or at least make him a QO. I'd be inclined to keep BOTH Leury and Engle. Both can platoon vs. LH pitching and fill in OF until Robert arrives or late inning defensive sub plus Leury can provide IF support. Non-tender Sanchez in favor of Mendick and save a little coin. In addition to Pederson, I'd go aggressively after Cole and Wheeler (I doubt Nats let Stras get away). I'm also skeptical we can attract Cole and hope we don't get into a prolonged auction process for him while someone slips in and locks up Wheeler. It would be disappointing if we don't land a stud pitcher this winter. Assuming Wheeler @$20M, plus $10M for Joc, leaves @$20M to play with (Grandal?) or SP. For me, that would be both a realistic and successful offseason.  

I would love Pederson if the price was Fry or equivalent. Definitely don't want to overpay for 1 year of any player.  Cole or Wheeler plus Grandal & Pederson would make for a very good offseason.  Need a good reliever or two as well.

[wegner]

12 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I would love Pederson if the price was Fry or equivalent. Definitely don't want to overpay for 1 year of any player.  Cole or Wheeler plus Grandal & Pederson would make for a very good offseason.  Need a good reliever or two as well.

Quick question Poppy...do you think the Sox will go after anyone who has a qualifying offer attached to them?

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Middle Buffalo said:

I highly doubt the Sox will make an offer to Cole. I think it’s way more likely they sign one or two guys from the next tier, and that would be my preference. A “small market team” like the Sox can’t absorb the hit if Cole doesn’t work out.

I wonder if the Astros will make any attempt to sign Cole with the idea of trading Greinke. If they do, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Sox make a play for Greinke. 

You acquire a 36 year old starter with that contract, you’re forced to be in “win now” or all-in mode...which is why you have to wait until the end of the offseason...or you’re really trying to signal to every FA that you’re both serious about winning AND sending right off the bat.

Doesn't Greinke have limited no-trade rights with his current deal, though?

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

Quick question Poppy...do you think the Sox will go after anyone who has a qualifying offer attached to them?

Cole, Strasburg or JD Martinez probably yes...others...not so much.  Because it reduces what some others are willing to offer...it could help us.  We will know soon.  I think Nov. 11th is the date that clubs have to make those offers.