July 11, 20214 yr Sometimes people learn from their mistakes. Eloy will be given the opportunity to do that because he has earned that right. Eloy is a better athlete than Vaughn, much faster, taller and with more reach. Sox coaches Super Joe and Boston should set some parameters for how he plays in the outfield. Play deep and keep everything in front of you, like Vaughn does, and let short fly balls not easily caught fall in for singles...like Vaughn does. Then hit 40 HR / year and everything will work out alright.
July 11, 20214 yr Hot take: if the Sox use him *only* as a DH, the value he gives them won't equal the value they would get back by trading him to a team who feels he could do more.
July 11, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, tray said: Sometimes people learn from their mistakes. Eloy will be given the opportunity to do that because he has earned that right. Eloy is a better athlete than Vaughn, much faster, taller and with more reach. Sox coaches Super Joe and Boston should set some parameters for how he plays in the outfield. Play deep and keep everything in front of you, like Vaughn does, and let short fly balls not easily caught fall in for singles...like Vaughn does. Then hit 40 HR / year and everything will work out alright. there is much more to be athletic than straight line speed and reach. This isn't boxing or the 100 meter dash. This is baseball and athletic timing, hand eye coordination and agility all factor into being a good defender. Eloy, frankly, has none of those things defensively and it's why the metrics grade him worse than Vaughn, as does the eye test. Notice how Vaughn hasn't even come close to any collisions? That's something you risk every single night with Eloy and LF -- and he could take Robert out with him. It's not an acceptable risk. Eloy is almost certainly going to be at best a part time fielder.
July 11, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: there is much more to be athletic than straight line speed and reach. This isn't boxing or the 100 meter dash. This is baseball and athletic timing, hand eye coordination and agility all factor into being a good defender. Eloy, frankly, has none of those things defensively and it's why the metrics grade him worse than Vaughn, as does the eye test. Notice how Vaughn hasn't even come close to any collisions? That's something you risk every single night with Eloy and LF -- and he could take Robert out with him. It's not an acceptable risk. Eloy is almost certainly going to be at best a part time fielder. All of Eloys WAR comes from the bat. He is a DH. He needs to understand that if he wants a highly successful and financially lucrative career, he needs to DH.
July 11, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: All of Eloys WAR comes from the bat. He is a DH. He needs to understand that if he wants a highly successful and financially lucrative career, he needs to DH. Exactly. Look we've given him a fair shot out there, it's just not to be. As I've said, pickup a 1B mitt this offseason see if he can get to passable there so he can play 40-50 games at 1B and the rest DH.
July 11, 20214 yr 40 minutes ago, tray said: Sometimes people learn from their mistakes. Eloy will be given the opportunity to do that because he has earned that right. Eloy is a better athlete than Vaughn, much faster, taller and with more reach. Sox coaches Super Joe and Boston should set some parameters for how he plays in the outfield. Play deep and keep everything in front of you, like Vaughn does, and let short fly balls not easily caught fall in for singles...like Vaughn does. Then hit 40 HR / year and everything will work out alright. And despite all of the physical advantages Eloy has, Vaughn is twice the LFer that Eloy is.
July 11, 20214 yr 17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: All of Eloys WAR comes from the bat. He is a DH. He needs to understand that if he wants a highly successful and financially lucrative career, he needs to DH. I'm not savvy to newer sabermetrics but isn't WAR offense affected what position you play, i.e. a 2nd baseman who hits 40 HRs has a higher WAR than a left fielder who hits 40 HR's? That said, maybe LF and DH are comparable in that regard anyway...
July 11, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said: I'm not savvy to newer sabermetrics but isn't WAR offense affected what position you play, i.e. a 2nd baseman who hits 40 HRs has a higher WAR than a left fielder who hits 40 HR's? That said, maybe LF and DH are comparable in that regard anyway... Yes, WAR does depend on position and, yes, LF and DH aren't too far apart. It's not like turning a SS into a DH.
July 11, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said: Yes, WAR does depend on position and, yes, LF and DH aren't too far apart. It's not like turning a SS into a DH. They're pretty damn far apart. You start off in a 17.5 run hole as a dh vs a 7.5 run role as a LF'er. A -9 run LF earns more positional value than a DH
July 11, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, SpringfieldFan said: I'm not savvy to newer sabermetrics but isn't WAR offense affected what position you play, i.e. a 2nd baseman who hits 40 HRs has a higher WAR than a left fielder who hits 40 HR's? That said, maybe LF and DH are comparable in that regard anyway... What I mean is his value is with the bat. His defense in left is bad and he is high risk of getting hurt. We lose that highly valuable bat if he is hurt. If he only hits, he will be highly successful.
July 11, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, staxxington said: Eloy carries the squad and ends up hitting >25 HR this year. mark this post If Eloy hits 25 homers in Aug and Sep Sox gonna win 100 games.
July 11, 20214 yr If vaughn is the LF going forward...Eloy should learn 1st Base and own it. No reason he cant do that. And sorry i missed this whole thread and look like a dick for repeating this again. Edited July 11, 20214 yr by EloyJenkins
July 11, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, tray said: Sometimes people learn from their mistakes. Eloy will be given the opportunity to do that because he has earned that right. Eloy is a better athlete than Vaughn, much faster, taller and with more reach. Sox coaches Super Joe and Boston should set some parameters for how he plays in the outfield. Play deep and keep everything in front of you, like Vaughn does, and let short fly balls not easily caught fall in for singles...like Vaughn does. Then hit 40 HR / year and everything will work out alright. This is hilarious. I love Eloy, but dude is a DH. Eloy doesn't look overly athletic while in the field and the eye test tells me Vaughn is better out there by a mile. We must have been watching different players on different teams if you think that. Eloy has no place in an outfield, period. He hasn't earned that. What do you think he earned that based off? His hitting? Again, I refer to my first point, he's a DH.
July 11, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, brijames1957 said: I think Eloy is capable of being the second best hitter on this team behind TA. Define hitter.
July 11, 20214 yr 4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: there is much more to be athletic than straight line speed and reach. This isn't boxing or the 100 meter dash. This is baseball and athletic timing, hand eye coordination and agility all factor into being a good defender. Eloy, frankly, has none of those things defensively and it's why the metrics grade him worse than Vaughn, as does the eye test. Notice how Vaughn hasn't even come close to any collisions? That's something you risk every single night with Eloy and LF -- and he could take Robert out with him. It's not an acceptable risk. Eloy is almost certainly going to be at best a part time fielder. And it's not only Vaughn who has picked up the OF mitt for the first time this season. Lamb is on the wrong side of 30, was able to muddle through in the corners for the first time in over a decade of pro ball. Not a good defender, but also doesn't jeopardize the health of others or himself. Sheets and Mendick able to pick up the OF as well, though Danny had more prep time preceding playing in RF, whereas it was a fire drill for Vaughn, Sheets, and Lamb. I'd say Vaughn exceeded everyone's expectations, the other two were at least as good as could possibly be expected. It would be smart to take advantage of Jose's time here next year to work with Eloy at 1B, if the team feels Eloy is an option there. Eaton was very helpful helping Sheets, and likely Lamb before leaving with RF defense. Players are influenced much more by their peers they respect than coaches, all else being equal, and Eloy definitely respects Jose.
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