I thought about not cischek when the board was broken once this trade was announced. No one reads these boards anymore.

5 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

So you only care about the part that fits your argument. Gotcha.

Or I care about the previous 3 years as a key indicator of projected value like every other modeler in the history of the world who heavily weighs the three previous years over the years prior?

Hope that helps!

Just now, manbearpuig said:

Shoulda traded for Frazier or Escobar too to go along with it.

If we were trading Nick - should have got Frazier FOR SURE. I'd totally be down then. Right now I'm on the fence with a deflated penis.

Just now, upsoxfan said:

They problem is non of these guys are Catchers. Maybe we can train Vaughn to catch he seems to be able to do everything else. Now we have all these pitchers  and no catcher. We have a catcher who can catch and a second who can’t catch or hit. They better  keep everything up because Collins might be the worst in the league at stuff in the dirt. So if Grandahl can’t catch anymore we are expecting to win without a Catcher

If the rest of the lineup can get their heads out of their collective asses, you can take Seby catching with no bat. But our current catching situation, coupled with the hitting woes, makes it a glaring weakness.

1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I think this also helps to clear up the playoff rotation.

Start Keuchel and limit him to one time through the order.  Follow him with Cease, Crochet, Tepera, Kopech, Kimbrell and Hendriks.

Unless our top 3 guys get hurt, Keuchel won't sniff the playoff rotation. 

31 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

 

?

I think they made the right choice.

35 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

I'm good with this

It’s a theoretical overpay (ignoring trade deadline implications), but honestly I’m ok with it if this suggests we’re going to spend some money to replace Nick in the offseason.  Kimbrel basically gives us the best playoff bullpen while also allowing Kopech to serve as rotation insurance.  May be a big price to pay, but not sure there is a more impactful move we could have made for the 2021 season.

Sold a bit low on Heuer but not upset about it.  Madrigal outside of his hitting isn't anything special IMO.  Its an all in move I can get behind.  Hoping one more bat will make its way to the Southside before 3.

Kimbrel can always be flipped this winter or next deadline. Never know how it works out 

1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I think this also helps to clear up the playoff rotation.

Start Keuchel and limit him to one time through the order.  Follow him with Cease, Crochet, Tepera, Kopech, Kimbrell and Hendriks.

Or Kopech makes postseason starts and Kimbrel is the set up guy.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Or I care about the previous 3 years as a key indicator of projected value like every other modeler in the history of the world who heavily weighs the three previous years over the years prior?

Hope that helps!

well that model should tell you Madrigal has been hurt all 3 years

Our favorite hamburger account says the Sox are not done. Take that as you wish.

6 minutes ago, upsoxfan said:

They problem is non of these guys are Catchers. Maybe we can train Vaughn to catch he seems to be able to do everything else. Now we have all these pitchers  and no catcher. We have a catcher who can catch and a second who can’t catch or hit. They better  keep everything up because Collins might be the worst in the league at stuff in the dirt. So if Grandahl can’t catch anymore we are expecting to win without a Catcher

Get Yan Gomes.  

EDIT:  Forget it.  Just informed he's already been traded.

Edited July 30, 20214 yr by South Side Fireworks Man

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Or I care about the previous 3 years as a key indicator of projected value like every other modeler in the history of the world who heavily weighs the three previous years over the years prior?

Hope that helps!

What matters more, for the 2021 season that we're trying to win: what happened in the last 3 years, or what is ACTUALLY happening this season? Will Kimbrel fail to get a guy out in a post season game this year, because of a bad HR/9 rate in 2019?

If the Sox choose, they could put Kimbrel on the market in the off season and receive an offer of similar value from multiple suitors

39 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I like Nick Madrigal and all, but he feels highly replaceable. The ceiling isn't enormous. I'm okay with this.

100% agree.

25 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

My hot take is that I don't like this. I don't think Kimbrel is AT ALL a guarantee to be good for the next year and a half. Heuer was a good bet to bounce back based on his FIP/xFIP, meaning this very well may not be AS MUCH of an upgrade as the name value indicates. 

Right?  Like why is Heuer even in this deal?  Sure seems to me like this is package that should have gotten use Kimbrel + Bryant.  

Not that it means a ton, but just a week or so ago Fangraphs said Madrigal had a top 50 trade value in that game, that would have been higher had he not gotten hurt.  Instead, we traded him (plus a really nice MLB pen piece) both controlled cheap FOR YEARS, for a shutdown closer making shutdown closer money, on a team with a shutdown closer.

Its just strange.  Is this team better suited to win the World Series in 21 than it was an hour ago?  Yeah.  But we gave up a lot. 

40 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

This is true and doesn’t even include a potential return to form for Bummer.

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s a theoretical overpay (ignoring trade deadline implications), but honestly I’m ok with it if this suggests we’re going to spend some money to replace Nick in the offseason.  Kimbrel basically gives us the best playoff bullpen while also allowing Kopech to serve as rotation insurance.  May be a big price to pay, but not sure there is a more impactful move we could have made for the 2021 season.

Your optimism about this team and spending money on FA's is very enviable, but I would bet any amount of money you want that Cesar Hernandez is the 2nd baseman next year and this team will not make a major splash in FA (major being over 100 million).

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Your optimism about this team and spending money on FA's is very enviable, but I would bet any amount of money you want that Cesar Hernandez is the 2nd baseman next year and this team will not make a major splash in FA (major being over 100 million).

is Madrigal that much better than Hernandez in your mind?

11 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

 

Oh I get it....you're one of those Stats guys.  Thanks for pointing out that Kimbrel has more losses to prove my point. 

 

Tony Larussa will be at the forefront of a trend of two inning saves

1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

If the Sox choose, they could put Kimbrel on the market in the off season and receive an offer of similar value from multiple suitors

Similar value? Doubtful. Madrigal was a top 40 prospect and you can argue his results in the Majors increased his value. Hell FanGraphs had him in the top 40 for trade value in all of MLB. Only 2 of top 40 prospects have been traded this deadline and both were for SPs and position players. 

1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

Tony Larussa will be at the forefront of a trend of two inning saves

No need to anymore.

5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

If you look at fraction of payroll, that's not really true.

As far as the second sentence goes -- yeah, I guess I'm just noticing that this is looking more and more like a short window of contention with each transaction that's made, and maybe I just need time to come to terms with that.  

But you said this:

"I think there's a good reason that the progressive teams sell off good bullpen pieces every year and seem to find a way to make new ones out of thin air. There are methods for maximizing raw stuff, but these guys typically don't have enough tricks to make it last very long. """"

Certainly for the Rays, this is true. But the Dodgers are progressive and decided not to let kenley jansen go and get a comp pick but instead sign him for a 6 year deal or whatever. 

I guess...if the sox did this in the offseason - did the rockies thing - I'd hate it. But, there needs to be some maximizing each season that happens, and stretching when that's needed. 

It is disappointing that we needed to use major league ready assets because we already had no farm. But the sox were in particular hit badly by the loss of a real 2020 draft, imo, and they do seem to be trying to straighten it out quick, but could fail because they are completely unproven there.

I would have preferred madrigal and heuer turn into trea turner, it's definitely better use of resources. But I also just want them to take seriously each year. And trading a true 2nd baseman and a RP aren't the profiels I'm scared of trading away.