4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

That’s exactly the problem. If the Sox brought back Jose, they would be dumping other contracts just so we can watch his twilight years. I love Jose, but even I thought his last extension was a bit much. Turns out, I was wrong. But now you would really be playing with fire. The one thing I do wonder is how his lack of clubhouse presence will affect the team. There are things to question, but since the Sox refuse to act like a major market team, there really was no choice.

The thought was that Jose would be a good role model for the Moncada, Robert, and Eloy's of the team.  We might find that motivation is best left to the manager and coaches.

6 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm not excusing anything. He should be fired. Sox fans think Rick Hahn is the boogeyman though and he just isn't. Jerry Reinsdorf is. 

This is nuts and so disingenuous. I firmly believe he'll be decent-good defensively at first base because that's his position and that one he was drafted to play. How he does defensively at first base has nothing to do with how he played in the outfield. 

Most fans I talk to have accepted that Jerry is the root of the problem/disfunction , not sure how anyone can defend Hahn though, he’s responsible for the terrible allocation of the limited payroll with repeated free agents signings. 

6 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Most fans I talk to have accepted that Jerry is the root of the problem/disfunction , not sure how anyone can defend Hahn though, he’s responsible for the terrible allocation of the limited payroll with repeated free agents signings. 

Don’t forget the inexcusable draft picks, especially Madrigal and Crochet.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Jesus dude, did you pay attention to the Sox at all this year?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2022/6/25/23183261/la-russa-some-players-told-to-slow-it-down-to-avoid-aggravating-injuries-vaughn-abreu-pollock-robert

That article doesn't say anything about which stats are true and which stats are false in regards to Sox players.

23 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

That article doesn't say anything about which stats are true and which stats are false in regards to Sox players.

This is pathetic level trolling.  Do better.

59 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Most fans I talk to have accepted that Jerry is the root of the problem/disfunction , not sure how anyone can defend Hahn though, he’s responsible for the terrible allocation of the limited payroll with repeated free agents signings. 

I don't think Hahn is a great GM, but TLR controlled resource allocation the last few years. Now RH has to unwind a bullpen heavy payroll. 

53 minutes ago, fathom said:

Don’t forget the inexcusable draft picks, especially Madrigal and Crochet.

I still think that picking a high risk high reward lefty in the mid-teens of the draft is fine as long as you put him on a long term path to see if he can be a starter for you. If it doesn't work out you probably get a reliever out of that, but if it does work out then a few years later you've built up his arm and you've got a really elite pitcher. I have a much bigger problem with putting that in the bullpen because we need cheap guys to help us win right now, and our team in 2021 is so good we can sacrifice having an extra starter ready in 2023 or 2024. 

19 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I don't think Hahn is a great GM, but TLR controlled resource allocation the last few years. Now RH has to unwind a bullpen heavy payroll. 

If he really had to "unwind that bullpen heavy payroll", Graveman and Lopez could easily have been moved already.

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

TLR was not the manager when Hendriks was signed and that is the biggest part of the "Bullpen heavy payroll". And if he really had to "unwind that bullpen heavy payroll", Graveman and Lopez could easily have been moved already.

Who was the manager?

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Who was the manager?

You know what you're right. My bad, that was completely wrong. Oops. Apologies. 

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

17 hours ago, fathom said:

Don’t forget the inexcusable draft picks, especially Madrigal and Crochet.

Madrigal was an unforgivable pick. Remember how everyone was afraid they'd take Brady Singer?  Tools matter.  So does position. If you look at first rounders, the Sox took Anderson and Rodon, two excellent picks. After that, it's a catcher who can't stick at the position with a second round grade from everyone else, a college closer,  an undersized righthander with control problems, a bad-bodied 3b with real 1b risk, an undersized 2b with 30 power, 30 arm, a 6' R/R 1b, a LHP with serious reliever risk, then Montgomery (a ss) and Schultz, who I think are pretty good risks.

Crochet is by no means the dumbest of those picks. Hopefully, Vaughn hits like a mothertrucker to make this run look medium, but hopefully they learned their lesson and will stay SP/middle of the field for the first round and start taking 1b, 2b, relievers in rounds 5-10 like everyone else.

At this point, let’s just pick up Benintendi or Conforto and be done with the offseason. I’m tired of checking to see if anything happened and afraid Lenny/Hahn will make yet another dumb trade.

I just wonder what the plan is moving forward. If everything goes as planned., whenthe contracts of the current Sox players expire , if they played as hoped,they all will be too rich for JRs blood. So no TA, no Robert, no Moncada, no Colas, no Vaughn, no Gio, no Cease, no Kopech. 
 

the White Sox ownership and front office need a reality check. Either financially, philosophically or both, they are no longer suited to own and run a major league franchise that ever expects to win championships.

 

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I just wonder what the plan is moving forward. If everything goes as planned., whenthe contracts of the current Sox players expire , if they played as hoped,they all will be too rich for JRs blood. So no TA, no Robert, no Moncada, no Colas, no Vaughn, no Gio, no Cease, no Kopech. 
 

the White Sox ownership and front office need a reality check. Either financially, philosophically or both, they are no longer suited to own and run a major league franchise that ever expects to win championships.

 

It will be a good excuse for me to stop paying attention to the Sox. Under current ownership, I don’t have any hope of the Sox competing financially with other teams.

19 hours ago, fathom said:

Don’t forget the inexcusable draft picks, especially Madrigal and Crochet.

I don't think Crochet was inexcusable. The organization is just short-sighted and nobody is on the same page. 

20 hours ago, fathom said:

Don’t forget the inexcusable draft picks, especially Madrigal and Crochet.

Crochet wasn't inexcusable if they actually handled him properly. 

On 12/9/2022 at 10:10 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Outman stinks. Way too many words used on a guy who stinks. He's 26; he's a filler in a deal, not someone you target.

He's 25 , 26 in May. I mean really dude if you have a baseball argument for why he stinks give it. Just because you said so ?

On 12/9/2022 at 10:19 AM, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

According to all reports he’s well above average in fielding/arm/run categories, so not sure how he could be said to suck

Also .950 OPS in AA and over 1.000 in AAA last year. Over 200 AB's in each level.

Very few around here were clamoring for Daulton Varsho either  after his 2021 season which was a decent year. Defense gave him a lot of his WAR when he was only 106 wRC+ but had a 4.6 fWar.

19 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I still think that picking a high risk high reward lefty in the mid-teens of the draft is fine as long as you put him on a long term path to see if he can be a starter for you. If it doesn't work out you probably get a reliever out of that, but if it does work out then a few years later you've built up his arm and you've got a really elite pitcher. I have a much bigger problem with putting that in the bullpen because we need cheap guys to help us win right now, and our team in 2021 is so good we can sacrifice having an extra starter ready in 2023 or 2024. 

This. Crochet's floor was always a back end reliever. The issue is that the Sox never gave him the chance to prove whether or not he could be anything more. Given how quickly he snapped his UCL and that he was a college pick, he probably would have ended up in the bullpen anyway. 

Edited December 10, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This. Crochet's floor was always a back end reliever. The issue is that the Sox never gave him the chance to prove whether or not he could be anything more. Given how quickly he snapped his UCL and that he was a college pick, he probably would have ended up in the bullpen anyway. 

If he was going to pop that ligament, fine, but work him in the minors first. See if his arm build up, and maybe you avoid burning a pre-arbitration year. A popped ligament doesn’t mean he can’t recover, but it does take years.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If he was going to pop that ligament, fine, but work him in the minors first. See if his arm build up, and maybe you avoid burning a pre-arbitration year. A popped ligament doesn’t mean he can’t recover, but it does take years.

I completely agree. He was probably going to need Tommy John regardless. The human body isnt made to throw a baseball 102 mph. 

Edited December 10, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

 

Trade Crochett and Popeye for Jake McCarthy, Dominic Canzone and Kevin Ginkel

 

Trade Hendriks and Romy for Gleyber Torres, Estevan Florial and Albert Abreu

 

Trade Sheets for a cost controlled middle reliever…should be a decent amount of possibilities so won’t guess on who, but something about Sheets seems to fit with Tampa to me.

 

Gleyber fills the 2B hole. Would need 2 of Colas/McCarthy/Canzone/Florial to hit well enough to lock down the corners OF spots, something I’d be comfortable betting on. In a perfect world(service time probably still plays a role)  it’s Colas and McCarthy as the starters, Florial as the 4th OF’er, and Canzone takes over for Sheets as the bench 1B/LF/DH/LH pinch hitter.

 

Bullpen obviously takes a hit losing Hendriks, but I still believe Lopez/Graveman/Bummer is a good enough 8th/9th inning trio. Relying on some combo of Grinkel/Diekman/Kelly/Abreu/Lambert/Avila/Sheets trade to be solid in the middle innings is where it would get a little dicey…can also sign some vets to minor league deals to add to our chances.

 

SS-TA

3B-Moncada

CF-Robert

DH-Eloy

RF-Colas

1B-Vaughn

2B-Torres

C- Yaz

LF-McCarthy

Bench- Florial, Canzone, Luery, Seby

I think the lineup, balance, depth(burger, sosa, and Perez still in AAA in case of injury) and defense are all much improved.

 

Cease, Lynn, Gio, Kopech, Clevinger still remains a possibility for a very strong rotation with some health luck. Martin stays in AAA for depth 

 

On 12/9/2022 at 3:49 PM, Balta1701 said:

If he really had to "unwind that bullpen heavy payroll", Graveman and Lopez could easily have been moved already.

I doubt Lopez fits into the  BP heavy payroll if what he meant was BP guys getting high salaries like Hendriks, Graveman, Kelly. Even Diekman and Bummer are making more than Lopez. It'll be pretty close depending if the Sox make a higher offer than his projected Arbitration raise of $3.3M.