5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Let's talk some really important and relevant numbers. 

You still CAN'T explain why they went from the very best record of health in the AL from 2000-2012 under Herm Schneider to one of the very worst under Hahn and every single trainer from 2013 until 2023. 

Top 4-5 record in baseball during that time frame with KW and Schneider. 

Bottom 5-7 winning percentage in all of baseball from 2013-2023 under Hahn and three different training staffs. 

Let's ask PTAC if he attributes it to the trainers, players/"today's modern athlete", front office interference/indifference or the various managers during those two specific time frames... 

YOU can't explain it either.  Jesus fucking christ dude, what are you even arguing any more?  How many sets of goal posts do you need to keep all of this nonsense in motion?

Herm Schneider = healthy players and Non Herm Schneider  = not healthy players does not necessarily compute.

We actually have no idea if players listened to Herm more than their counterparts today listen to their guys. Or if Herm was some health guru when no one else, in an age when we learn more all the time about conditioning, can figure out how to keep modern players healthy.

We also have no idea that if the players do listen, if it has anything , little or much to do with maintaining their health.

 There are basics things players can and do without advice from the team such as getting enough sleep, proper diet, staying flexible w/e. Players often do weight training which has advantages and disadvantages depending on how you go about it. Everything has a proper way to go about it but many things are approached differently by different people. There's also body types and genes to take into consideration.

It's hard to know family history of soft muscle injuries. It's hard to ascertain if you drank enough milk as a kid to have strong bones. Some bodies just can't handle stress due to so many factors that pre exist. Some are lactose intolerant. Some may have had early health issues as children. How deep do teams delve into the health of players since the day they were born ?

It's like asking a 110 yr old person " To what do you attribute your long life ?". The best possible answer to that may be luck and genes. Even living a clean life is not a guarantee of long lasting health.That's usually why I don't discuss how to fix the health of players arguments. I just don't think it matters much who the Athletic Trainer is.Just vet him/her thoroughly along with the health history of players you are interested in . Maybe some of these teams trading with the Sox know some things that good organizations do or consider that bad organizations don't regarding health. Remember when Hahn said that perhaps their vetting process regarding Clevinger may need to be reviewed  ? And that's just recent history. Imagine trying to vet an 18 year olds entire health life or his family health history on both sides of his family.

Why could Nolan Ryan throw so hard for so long ? Mostly because there was no one exactly like Nolan Ryan who ended up playing baseball with the right genes, early childhood work ethic,  w/e it was that made him unique. He could've been in another profession and no one would've ever know he had an arm like a cannon. Does anyone really think the athletic trainers had anything to do with his longevity  or the health of his arm ?

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Let's talk some really important and relevant numbers. 

You still CAN'T explain why they went from the very best record of health in the AL from 2000-2012 under Herm Schneider to one of the very worst under Hahn and every single trainer from 2013 until 2023. 

Top 4-5 record in baseball during that time frame with KW and Schneider. 

Bottom 5-7 winning percentage in all of baseball from 2013-2023 under Hahn and three different training staffs. 

Let's ask PTAC if he attributes it to the trainers, players/"today's modern athlete", front office interference/indifference or the various managers during those two specific time frames... 

Could it be steroids, hgh, etc, that played a part in it all those years ago?  Could it be off season training now?  Or could it be a shift in looking for guys with super high ceilings who do nothing but work out?  It could honestly be anything, but something doesn't seem right to have such a disparity as shown here.  As John Kruk said, "I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player".  Whatever it is they are doing no clearly isn't working. 

White Sox manager Pedro Grifol: “I’m not frustrated with these guys. I trust these guys.”

34 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

White Sox manager Pedro Grifol: “I’m not frustrated with these guys. I trust these guys.”

Sounds like something the Captain of the Titanic would say. ?

Sounds like what someone from a losing organization would say. 

Give me the old drunk hall of famer person with multiple rings over this KC reject all day. 

I want to know what happened to his motto if we are gonna come out every night ready to kick some ass went to? 

I wonder if Hahn warned Grifol that he might have to manage through a rebuild? 

1 hour ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

I wonder if Hahn warned Grifol that he might have to manage through a rebuild? 

To do that Hahn would have to acknowledge the rebuild is a failure. His ego won't allow that...but when he starts selling guys off in three months he'll come up with a clever way to rationalize it that shifts blame. 

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside continuing

In my health class I teach them on day one a summary of everything we will learn. It applies to athletes as well.

Coach Tex's class motto "To enjoy a long life span with a high quality of life, I will choose parents with good genes, avoid the bad stuff while embracing the good stuff and not get fatter and fatter until I die like most people in first world countries." 

Same with athletic careers.

 

17 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

White Sox manager Pedro Grifol: “I’m not frustrated with these guys. I trust these guys.”

According to the Sox biggest sponsor "Jesus trusted his teammates too".

On 4/17/2023 at 5:21 PM, greg775 said:

I feel like we've become the Orioles during that long stretch of years where they knew after two weeks they were out of it. I'd say the Royals, but our players are more well known than KC's. Most managers don't apply 'discipline' nowadays. Players won't stand for it. Pedro is just another guy but I'm willing to give him a chance. He has to be scared to death though knowing there's a great chance they can lose every time they take the field cause of what will happen in the last four innings with this pen. Yikes.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/36182431/tigers-javier-baez-pulled-game-gaffe-bases

 

On 4/19/2023 at 3:07 PM, LittleHurtCG said:

Give me the old drunk hall of famer person with multiple rings over this KC reject all day. 

I mean at this point I'd take the Rick Renteria Sox. They at least looked like they gave a s%*#.

On 4/19/2023 at 3:07 PM, LittleHurtCG said:

Give me the old drunk hall of famer person with multiple rings over this KC reject all day. 

No.

5 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I mean at this point I'd take the Rick Renteria Sox. They at least looked like they gave a s%*#.

Yep. Since early Ozzie, Ricky was the best we’ve had… which is sad.

Of the few games I’ve watched so far - we look like timid doe crossing a road at night with oncoming headlights approaching.

On 4/17/2023 at 6:30 PM, caulfield12 said:

Quentin Dye Thome AJ Everett Uribe Crede Rowand etc. 

Those players loved to play hard and almost never sat unless they had no other alternative. 

Different breed of ballplayers back then. 

Every one of those guys was on the DL on a ton. Wtf are you talking about?

Hey Cali - your boy Outman would look pretty good in a Sox uniform.

On 4/20/2023 at 1:39 AM, soulfly said:

Could it be steroids, hgh, etc, that played a part in it all those years ago?  Could it be off season training now?  Or could it be a shift in looking for guys with super high ceilings who do nothing but work out?  It could honestly be anything, but something doesn't seem right to have such a disparity as shown here.  As John Kruk said, "I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player".  Whatever it is they are doing no clearly isn't working. 

Maybe…if you look at that 2005 team Jenks, Crede and Rowand broke down fairly quickly.

Dye was that same exact size when I saw him playing with Macon in 1994 and then the Royals.

Pablo Ozuna had been popped in the minors.

Hard to draw any conclusions.  Guys like Everett, AJ, Konerko and Uribe pretty much maintained similar physiques and had relatively long/er careers.

We know all about the positions of Thomas and Thome (2006 onwards) on the use of PED’s.

 

Carlos Quentin would seem like a pretty obvious possibility because he was a really big dude…like Canseco…and he just completely fell apart due to the toll injuries and taking everything so hard psychologically (dealing with failure).  Too cerebral and in his own head way too much.

33 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Every one of those guys was on the DL on a ton. Wtf are you talking about?

They all missed less games per season than TA7, Jimenez, Robert and Moncada in their Sox careers except Moncada is slightly ahead of Rowand and then Crede had one major injury (and not repetitive injuries over and over and over again) after his four most productive Sox seasons.

If we keep adjusting for every day that Moncada and TA7 are missing in 2023, it gets even closer and closer.

Fact, Herm Schneider had the least player days missed in the AL due to injury compared to every trainer in the AL in the 90s and 2000s.

Meanwhile the three trainers since then have all been pretty abysmal and two have been dismissed or pushed out.

Lmao keep digging up 

8 hours ago, South Sider said:

I mean at this point I'd take the Rick Renteria Sox. They at least looked like they gave a s%*#.

Ricky's boys don't quit!  Is Renteria still employed in major league baseball? Haven't heard his name in awhile. 

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Maybe…if you look at that 2005 team Jenks, Crede and Rowand broke down fairly quickly.

Dye was that same exact size when I saw him playing with Macon in 1994 and then the Royals.

Pablo Ozuna had been popped in the minors.

Hard to draw any conclusions.  Guys like Everett, AJ, Konerko and Uribe pretty much maintained similar physiques and had relatively long/er careers.

We know all about the positions of Thomas and Thome (2006 onwards) on the use of PED’s.

 

Carlos Quentin would seem like a pretty obvious possibility because he was a really big dude…like Canseco…and he just completely fell apart due to the toll injuries and taking everything so hard psychologically (dealing with failure).  Too cerebral and in his own head way too much.

Rowand I can agree with as being a possibility.  Doesn't seem as likely with Crede or Jenks given the injuries they suffered from having been due to steroid use.  But anyways, I wasn't really saying the guys were juicing as a team back then.  I don't think they really were.  I was just pointing out that something is causing it, we just just aren't sure what.  Either way it sucks.

The Sox got what most fans wanted in Pedro -- just another guy who nobody has heard of who won't say anything of note at news conferences, won't do anything dumb, just blend in and be boring if that's the right word.

Sox couldn't hire another former Sox player. Truth be known it might have been time to bring Robin back or Oz back. Or admit a mistake and bring Ricky back. It'd be nice to have a manager (AJP?) who might have the clout to demand the Sox actually acquire some baseball players who can field the ball and pitch the ball. Pedro will be a good, boring company man who probably will be shown the door in a year or two if Sox keep stinking even tho it's not his fault.

Edited April 21, 20232 yr by greg775

I'd love to see AJ, simply for the fact that he will speak his mind. He will call out BS, and I think this team needs that now more than ever. 

We have underperforming, highly paid talent. Somebody needs to kick them in the ass. 

Feel like we have a bunch of Roger Dorn's on this team.