Blow it the F Up

[Bob Sacamano]

38 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think if you trade Giolito you are waving the white flag.  Just don’t see how you can rebound from that unfortunately with our complete lack of pitching depth.

You're most likely right. Give it another month and we're probably 5+ games back anyway. At least trade off the rentals and any bad money you can.

[FloydBannister1983]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Sorry you'll miss my appreciation for your comment. JR got it right once with this team, he'll do it again. But a sale to a ownership group that will move it to it's own market would be interesting. Oakland has a stadium in need of a tenant. 

Of course as already pointed out this thread is a rebuild thread not a sell the team thread so the guy  posted it in the wrong thread.

Edited June 30, 2023 by FloydBannister1983

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think if you trade Giolito you are waving the white flag.  Just don’t see how you can rebound from that unfortunately with our complete lack of pitching depth.

The way the White Sox operate, probably so. But it doesn’t have to be that way. I remember the Sox traded ML ready Daniel Hudson for Edwin, Jackson and Hudson was immediately better than Jackson.  If they  look hard enough, I bet there will be  ML-ready talent available right now, just not as much of a “sure thing” to produce right now.  The socks have a lot of holes so a one for two would be a really good move.

[Harry Chappas]

The longer this season goes on, the more I am not certain what is happening in baseball and what the direction is. 

Look at the Padres, Cardinals and Mets.  Also look at the Orioles, Tampa, and Reds.  The White Sox have as many wins as the Mets and one less then the Padres.

Hell the Pirates who were free falling to nowhere just swept the Padres and are back in the picture .

The cubs were buyers last week and now look as baseball stupid as the White Sox.

I will say the extra picks and player development is the key to winning along with building a culture. 

 

 

[T R U]

If you can trade Giolito and 1-2 of the bullpen arms that are having strong seasons with low commitments to get some help for the future while also hanging around in this terrible division I would call that an absolute win/win and also a very likely scenario.

So we need to rely on Banks, Scholtens, and Toussaint to fill in rotation spots if that happens? So what, were already doing that anyways.

[elrockinMT]

I would much rather see club ownership realize good pitching wins. We have good pitching and should do our best to keep them here. We gave talented players and let’s give the team the chance to compete 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I would much rather see club ownership realize good pitching wins. We have good pitching and should do our best to keep them here. We gave talented players and let’s give the team the chance to compete 

Giolito is gone the second free agency begins.

[FloydBannister1983]

6 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I would much rather see club ownership realize good pitching wins. We have good pitching and should do our best to keep them here. We gave talented players and let’s give the team the chance to compete 

They have one, maybe two if you count Burger, hitters.

The pitching is fine for now.  Although it will blow up soon I think.  As someone else pointed out you can’t have Cease/Kopech go five innings every game and not have it wear out your bullpen.  I remember a couple weeks ago Kopech throwing 100 pitches in four innings.  He should have flipped off the bullpen before he left the mound.

[ChiSox59]

5 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I feel like no matter what, they should at least trade Giolito regardless. The division is still so bad that you may be able to sneak in. Maybe catch lightning in a bottle from someone in minors.

Might sound crazy but we know they won't really be buyers with nothing of value to trade.

 

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Honestly, I struggle with assuming what that cut-off might be.  Normally I’d agree that 5 games is the right number, but I think even Hahn realizes how flawed this offense is.  Might need to be a bit closer than that to pass on selling what should be a really attractive trade chip in Giolito.  I also hate the idea of completely standing Pat at the deadline.  Usually you’re either buying or selling to some extent, but throwing more resources at this team seems foolish and is just stretching out the inevitable retool / rebuild.

Yeah, I have been thinking about this myself. I too think Giolito is too valuable not to trade.  But certainly don't think Hahn will pull the trigger until the very last minute unless Sox fall back into 8+ GB range.  

Giolito, as it sits right now, is likely the top FA SP after Ohtani and perhaps Yamamoto.  His value should be a prospect in the 50-100 range.  If you could flip him for a major league ready SP that you can just plug right into the rotation effectively turning 12 Gio starts into 6.5 seasons of a SP, that'd pretty tough to not pull the trigger on.  Names like Gavin Stone, Emmet Sheehan (LA),  Quinn Priester (PIT), Andrew Abbott (CIN), and AJ Smith-Shawver (ATL) are all major league ready or close and could make varies degrees of sense.  

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

 

Yeah, I have been thinking about this myself. I too think Giolito is too valuable not to trade.  But certainly don't think Hahn will pull the trigger until the very last minute unless Sox fall back into 8+ GB range.  

Giolito, as it sits right now, is likely the top FA SP after Ohtani and perhaps Yamamoto.  His value should be a prospect in the 50-100 range.  If you could flip him for a major league ready SP that you can just plug right into the rotation effectively turning 12 Gio starts into 6.5 seasons of a SP, that'd pretty tough to not pull the trigger on.  Names like Gavin Stone, Emmet Sheehan (LA),  Quinn Priester (PIT), Andrew Abbott (CIN), and AJ Smith-Shawver (ATL) are all major league ready or close and could make varies degrees of sense.  

Agreed 100000%

Edited June 30, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

5 hours ago, T R U said:

Any metric you look at will tell you that this team stinks. It would be a travesty to stand pat or move what little assets we have to try and polish this turd.

Giolito and some of these bullpen arms have to be dealt. They wont resign Giolito, they wont offer him the QO, he cannot remain on this team past 8/1.

If they are still able to somehow win tallest midget and get into the playoffs, great, enjoy that little playoff revenue. Whats best for this franchise moving forward is to get something for these guys instead of getting nothing.

I bet ya $100 that IF the Sox don't trade Giolito, they'll offer him the QO.  Deal?

[MEANS]

2 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

I would much rather see club ownership realize good pitching wins. We have good pitching and should do our best to keep them here. We gave talented players and let’s give the team the chance to compete 

the chance to compete? WTF are you talking about? 2020/2021/2022/2023....chances......chances....chances....

[flavum]

So what’s your cutoff point where the Sox are sellers?

Mine is July 30th, when the Sox and Guardians finish their 4-game series…if the Sox are 10+ under .500 still or the Sox are 5+ games back of Cle and/or Min, we sell. 

Man this division is something.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

 

Yeah, I have been thinking about this myself. I too think Giolito is too valuable not to trade.  But certainly don't think Hahn will pull the trigger until the very last minute unless Sox fall back into 8+ GB range.  

Giolito, as it sits right now, is likely the top FA SP after Ohtani and perhaps Yamamoto.  His value should be a prospect in the 50-100 range.  If you could flip him for a major league ready SP that you can just plug right into the rotation effectively turning 12 Gio starts into 6.5 seasons of a SP, that'd pretty tough to not pull the trigger on.  Names like Gavin Stone, Emmet Sheehan (LA),  Quinn Priester (PIT), Andrew Abbott (CIN), and AJ Smith-Shawver (ATL) are all major league ready or close and could make varies degrees of sense.  

Abbott's already too valuable to the Reds...he's only had one bad start so far and is likely to be NL Pitcher of the Month or at least rookie pitcher of the month.

Atlanta has a lot more pitching depth but perhaps not the desperation to make a move unless you really believe in the Marlins.

 

Speaking of the Reds...they took a young player off the hands of the Guardians in OF Benson (former high draft pick) who has suddenly become an important contributor.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, MEANS said:

the chance to compete? WTF are you talking about? 2020/2021/2022/2023....chances......chances....chances....

One thing is for sure.

Had we kept both Rodon and now given Giolito the Jose Berrios extension...the team might actually be WORSE off.

Pretty doubtful they would've won the division last year even with a healthy Rodon...and it certainly would have prevented spending on Benintendi too, but the starting lineup would even be worse.

 

You have to produce your own cost-controlled starting pitching...see Cleveland, who could deal pending FA Bieber and still compete if McKenzie could come back.

They have the youngest team in badeball this year as well.

Edited June 30, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Bieber, Snell, Nola, Urias, Giolito...none of those guys are sure things, but almost all of them will get massive contracts as the top FA pitchers on the market.

Zero chance any of those guys are getting paid by the White Sox.

 

Not even going to waste time considering Shohei.

Edited June 30, 2023 by caulfield12

[pcq]

4 hours ago, T R U said:

If you can trade Giolito and 1-2 of the bullpen arms that are having strong seasons with low commitments to get some help for the future while also hanging around in this terrible division I would call that an absolute win/win and also a very likely scenario.

So we need to rely on Banks, Scholtens, and Toussaint to fill in rotation spots if that happens? So what, were already doing that anyways.

Amazing to see all of the pitching talent they have developed. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, flavum said:

So what’s your cutoff point where the Sox are sellers?

Mine is July 30th, when the Sox and Guardians finish their 4-game series…if the Sox are 10+ under .500 still or the Sox are 5+ games back of Cle and/or Min, we sell. 

Man this division is something.

I want to agree, but I don't have faith they will do the right thing.  I still think they are deluded enough to stand pat and tell themselves that only being 5 back is still doable.

[oldsox]

6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I bet ya $100 that IF the Sox don't trade Giolito, they'll offer him the QO.  Deal?

Absolutely, they will.  Gio won't take it though.

[ChiSox59]

22 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Absolutely, they will.  Gio won't take it though.

Of course not. Suggesting Giolito and Rodon are anything resembling comparable situations is silly. 

[Chicago White Sox]

This team literally has no chance of winning the division when our pitching depth consists of Tanner fucking Banks and Jesse shitshow Scholtens.  Even a garbage squad like the Oakland A’s is able to beat us up.   A serious front office would see that along with a horrible flawed offense and quickly realize our fate is sealed.  Do the right thing and blow this s%*# the F up!

[T R U]

17 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I bet ya $100 that IF the Sox don't trade Giolito, they'll offer him the QO.  Deal?

You’re right, it’s not the same situation as Rodon. The better phrasing should have been he won’t accept a QO from us if offered. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This team literally has no chance of winning the division when our pitching depth consists of Tanner fucking Banks and Jesse shitshow Scholtens.  Even a garbage squad like the Oakland A’s is able to beat us up.   A serious front office would see that along with a horrible flawed offense and quickly realize our fate is sealed.  Do the right thing and blow this s%*# the F up!

Yep. Even if we win the division “by default” (love this phrase someone else used recently haha), it will be a quick first round exit.

[Chicago White Sox]

It’s insane how many teams need pitching this trade deadline.  Giolito is going to command a top 100 prospect or interesting young player.  Teams like the Orioles, Rangers, Diamondbacks, & Reds have the currency to get something done without it being too painful.  Rick Hahn may be a complete boob, but even he can get a quality return in this market.

[Chicago White Sox]

Based on Baseball America’s current ranking, here are prospects in the 60 to 100 ranges for the four clubs mentioned above:

Orioles:

• #68: Joey Ortiz (SS)
• #73: DL Hall (LHP)
• #74: Samuel Basello (CA)
• #77: Heston Kjerstad (RF)

Rangers:

• #79: Owen White (RHP)
• #92: Luisangel Acuna (SS)

Reds:

• #66: Cam Collier (OF)
• #70: Andrew Abbott (LHP)
• #90: Christian Encarnacion-Strand (3B)
• #93: Chase Petty (RHP)
• #97: Edwin Arroyo (SS)

The Diamondbacks don’t have any guys in this range (multiple top 30), but Blake Walston (LHP) was a guy both BA & Keith Law considered a top 100 type prior to this season (ugly results in AAA this year).  I wish there was a way to snag Alek Thomas by combining Giolito with other stuff, but probably wishful thinking there.