Betts calls out White Sox for not defending Tim Anderson after KO punch, D Backs have team meeting about protocols for similar situations

[The Grinder]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I got to meet Nolan at his restaurant. He said about half way to the mound Robin had this confused look in his eyes as he realized he was charging someone his dad's age. Then we discussed bass fishing on the lake near the restaurant. Damn good beef. 

Nolan seemed like a pretty cool but intense guy, was that yr impression? I may have to read his bio sometime

[Texsox]

13 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Nolan seemed like a pretty cool but intense guy, was that yr impression? I may have to read his bio sometime

He was really chill. There was only a couple groups in the restaurant that day and he seemed bored. He saw my Sox hat and came over to say hi. I wasn't going to ask him about the fight but he mentioned it. 

It seemed like he'd have rather been on the lake fishing. Honestly it was three minutes tops. Looking back he may have a system worked out with the server to avoid long conversations. 

I think he owned the hotel behind the restaurant as well. Both were in the middle of nowhere and I believe both have been closed for a long time now. 

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

He probably expected someone to run out from the bullpen with a chair.

Frank Francisco...another White Sox tie.

 

You wonder how many FA's would want to sign with the white Sox now if the reason wasn't money or Luis Robert (before he gets traded).

[Dominikk85]

16 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Angels and Rockies and As and Pirates might have something to say about that. 

Marlins too. 

With the As they actually had been decent until their owner decided to actively get bad so he can force a move to Vegas.

In the 10 years from 2012 to 2021 the were above 500 7 times and over 90 5 times.

They didn't win it all but they were a respectable franchise until their owner decided it was time to blow it up completely.

[hi8is]

Maybe no one likes TA enough to throw hands for him, Mookie. 😆

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Marlins too. 

With the As they actually had been decent until their owner decided to actively get bad so he can force a move to Vegas.

In the 10 years from 2012 to 2021 the were above 500 7 times and over 90 5 times.

They didn't win it all but they were a respectable franchise until their owner decided it was time to blow it up completely.

And Beane left everyday involvement for other pursuits...

[greg775]

Anderson probably deserved to get humbled. He was mocked throughout baseball for the "down goes Anderson" call. Typical White Sox to not have his back. This team is a mess.

[tray]

Other than in NHL games, I have seldom seen teams in any sport  back off and let two players go mono y mono. In this fight even the umpire allowed Ramirez to clear him out with one hand and that move did not result in any additional suspension. Forget this fight for a second, and ask yourself if MLB should allow itself to go down the same rabbit hole as the NHL with fighting and for that matter, what should be the policy of teams when a player gets into a fight? Let him alone or have his back and defend him ?

[Chimpton]

2 hours ago, tray said:

Other than in NHL games, I have seldom seen teams in any sport  back off and let two players go mono y mono. In this fight even the umpire allowed Ramirez to clear him out with one hand and that move did not result in any additional suspension. Forget this fight for a second, and ask yourself if MLB should allow itself to go down the same rabbit hole as the NHL with fighting and for that matter, what should be the policy of teams when a player gets into a fight? Let him alone or have his back and defend him ?

In football (soccer) the referee always stands back when there is a scuffle in order to see which players needs punishing. Not sure if that is the same for baseball, but it could explain why the umpire took a step back and let them fight. Mind you scuffles are rare in soccer, and rarely have I seen actual punches being thrown, the occasional headbutt. 

The players did rush to intervene but by then Anderson was on his ass. Like most sporting fights only 2 or 3 actual punches were thrown, it is just that usually one of the protaganists isn't decked by one of the punches.

Basically, this whole sorry affair would normally be nothing by now but because Anderson was actually floored it has been made into a bigger thing. Obviously as the White Sox are losing and dressingroom unrest is rumoured we tend to read more into this incident in terms of did the players support Anderson enough and if they didn't does that mean they don't like him.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, tray said:

Other than in NHL games, I have seldom seen teams in any sport  back off and let two players go mono y mono. In this fight even the umpire allowed Ramirez to clear him out with one hand and that move did not result in any additional suspension. Forget this fight for a second, and ask yourself if MLB should allow itself to go down the same rabbit hole as the NHL with fighting and for that matter, what should be the policy of teams when a player gets into a fight? Let him alone or have his back and defend him ?

No. The NHL is a physical game played within an enclosed space, and the league has largely eliminated fighting with the instigator, third men in and other offensive minded rule changes. Teams do not have the luxury of carrying a "goon" in their active roster.

Also, there is a difference in leverage in skates vs. firm ground, and NHL players have helmets and other equipment which protects the player in a fight, whereas outside of a batting helmet MLB players are more exposed to a fight injury, plus you have guys like Eloy coming close to injury just observing and milling around.

With the recent rule eliminating allowed contact with the catcher, the remaining physical contact plays (HBP and what should be unintentional contact at a base) are not common and typically do not rise to the level of fighting.

[Chimpton]

12 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

No. The NHL is a physical game played within an enclosed space, and the league has largely eliminated fighting with the instigator, third men in and other offensive minded rule changes. Teams do not have the luxury of carrying a "goon" in their active roster.

Also, there is a difference in leverage in skates vs. firm ground, and NHL players have helmets and other equipment which protects the player in a fight, whereas outside of a batting helmet MLB players are more exposed to a fight injury, plus you have guys like Eloy coming close to injury just observing and milling around.

With the recent rule eliminating allowed contact with the catcher, the remaining physical contact plays (HBP and what should be unintentional contact at a base) are not common and typically do not rise to the level of fighting.

That was my best bit of this whole sorry incident, only Eloy could potentially injure himself by getting trodden on by one of his own players.

[Texsox]

12 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Marlins too. 

With the As they actually had been decent until their owner decided to actively get bad so he can force a move to Vegas.

In the 10 years from 2012 to 2021 the were above 500 7 times and over 90 5 times.

They didn't win it all but they were a respectable franchise until their owner decided it was time to blow it up completely.

JR would never do that.  

Would he . . .

[Stinky Stanky]

23 hours ago, greg775 said:

Anderson probably deserved to get humbled. He was mocked throughout baseball for the "down goes Anderson" call. Typical White Sox to not have his back. This team is a mess.

Gave this a lotta thought.  Betts was wrong.  What were the Sox supposed to do, go after the winner of a fair fight? They did the right thing by getting Timmy the hell out of harms way, thx, AV.

[tray]

There is a lot of bias toward TA. There can be no doubt that some of it is due to the fact that he is an African American player...a group that did not have one player in the MLB until Jackie Robinson came up with the Dodgers. That group is still under-represented in the league.  It is interesting to note how some perceived this fight from who they think started it to how they characterize  AV for  dragging TA off. 

[Chimpton]

27 minutes ago, tray said:

There is a lot of bias toward TA. There can be no doubt that some of it is due to the fact that he is an African American player...a group that did not have one player in the MLB until Jackie Robinson came up with the Dodgers. That group is still under-represented in the league.  It is interesting to note how some perceived this fight from who they think started it to how they characterize  AV for  dragging TA off. 

But he was squaring up to another 'non-white' player, so how does that fit in to your narrative? 

TA did start it by throwing his glove down and then putting his fists up. It is not as if it was a fight between an African American player and a White player and people are siding with the White player. People are laughing at TA because he squared up like a tough guy and then got knocked down by one punch.

And as for AV he was trying to help out a teammate by saving him from further harm, the fact he is White is irrelevant. And not everyone is praising him some on here think he should have been throwing punches, so that equally doesn't fit your narrative.

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, tray said:

There is a lot of bias toward TA. There can be no doubt that some of it is due to the fact that he is an African American player...a group that did not have one player in the MLB until Jackie Robinson came up with the Dodgers. That group is still under-represented in the league.  It is interesting to note how some perceived this fight from who they think started it to how they characterize  AV for  dragging TA off. 

Man, you are so wrong here.

And, please get off that under-represented line.  What do you want, a quota?  And what would that number be? MLB has roughly 1000 players, and they cover many races and nationalities.  Presumably, those players are there because of a lot of factors, none of which involve race or country.  Are you advocating that MLB remove certain players because of race and replace them with players of your choosing?  What if someone came up to you and said that African Americans are over-represented in the NBA?  That would make as much sense as your thesis.

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, tray said:

1. There is a lot of bias toward TA.

2. There can be no doubt that some of it is due to the fact that he is an African American player...a group that did not have one player in the MLB until Jackie Robinson came up with the Dodgers.

3. That group is still under-represented in the league. 

4. It is interesting to note how some perceived this fight from who they think started it to how they characterize  AV for  dragging TA off. 

1. Yes, but it is dropping quickly the past two seasons. I'm guessing there is more bias away from TA. Right not he is "all hat and no cattle" on and off the field. 

2. Of course there are racist people in the world. So that's an easy statement to make. But that doesn't make everyone who sees someone instigate a fight and not like it a racist. I believe I can criticize his two family lifestyle as well without bringing racist. 

3. There are so many factors why Americans aren't playing baseball. Some are as simple as real estate space to play. Others are more subtle. I doubt any come into the discussion here. 

4. Interesting what you're seeing in the fight also. 

[caulfield12]

Let’s all change to pickleball and find a much better team to support, lol…

[Sarava]

6 hours ago, tray said:

There is a lot of bias toward TA. There can be no doubt that some of it is due to the fact that he is an African American player...a group that did not have one player in the MLB until Jackie Robinson came up with the Dodgers. That group is still under-represented in the league.  It is interesting to note how some perceived this fight from who they think started it to how they characterize  AV for  dragging TA off. 

The fight was minority vs minority. I don't see any racial biases here.

And honesty Timmy has done this to himself. Calling himself the best player on the field while he was been one of the very worst players in baseball this year. Despite his words, he's no Jackie unfortunately.

[FloydBannister1983]

2 hours ago, oldsox said:

Man, you are so wrong here.

And, please get off that under-represented line.  What do you want, a quota?  And what would that number be? MLB has roughly 1000 players, and they cover many races and nationalities.  Presumably, those players are there because of a lot of factors, none of which involve race or country.  Are you advocating that MLB remove certain players because of race and replace them with players of your choosing?  What if someone came up to you and said that African Americans are over-represented in the NBA?  That would make as much sense as your thesis.

I wonder what would be the correct representation for these people.

[FloydBannister1983]

40 minutes ago, Sarava said:

The fight was minority vs minority. I don't see any racial biases here.

And honesty Timmy has done this to himself. Calling himself the best player on the field while he was been one of the very worst players in baseball this year. Despite his words, he's no Jackie unfortunately.

Yeah more Milton Bradley than Jackie.

[Snopek]

If you don’t believe that some communities lack the resources and accessibility needed for baseball compared to others then I don’t know what to tell you.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Snopek

[FloydBannister1983]

6 hours ago, Chimpton said:

But he was squaring up to another 'non-white' player, so how does that fit in to your narrative? 

TA did start it by throwing his glove down and then putting his fists up. It is not as if it was a fight between an African American player and a White player and people are siding with the White player. People are laughing at TA because he squared up like a tough guy and then got knocked down by one punch.

And as for AV he was trying to help out a teammate by saving him from further harm, the fact he is White is irrelevant. And not everyone is praising him some on here think he should have been throwing punches, so that equally doesn't fit your narrative.

Was he drunk-posting at 3AM?

[South Side Hit Men]

58 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Yeah more Milton Bradley than Jackie.

An apt comparison.

1. Parents, teachers and children called Milton Bradley’s three year old the n-word while with the Cubs.

https://www.espn.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4496640

Quote

"Parents, teachers and their kids called him the n-word. He didn't even know it was a bad word until his mom told him."

 

2. Of course the Tribune columnist and now 670 The Whore Show and Cubs fan Host David Haugh belittled Milton Bradley.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/milton-bradley-and-the-race-card/

Quote

columnist David Haugh of the Chicago Tribune belittled him for his claims: “Poor Milton Bradley whined again to ESPN about how hard Wrigley Field can be for black players,”

 

3. Cubs manager Lou Pinella called Bradley a piece of s%*# for being upset, which of course big mouth Ozzie Guillen had to jump in and co-sign.

https://www.nbcsports.com/mlb/news/potent-quotables-sweet-lou-turns-sour

 

4. A group of Cubs fans chanted Aunt Jemima and other racial slurs outside of Wrigley Field at Sun Times columnist Mary Mitchell and her 12 year old son.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2001-07-12-0107120175-story.html

 

5. Racist Cub Bros and Cub employees defend thugs spewing racial epithets on Hispanic Heritage Night.

 

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Edited August 13, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[tray]

The perception of TA is what I was referring to. The denial that racist views are part of the reactions to  TA impress me about as much as Josh Donaldson calling TA "Jackie" and then denying he is a racist. Down goes Anderson, down goes Anderson... then getting dragged off by Vaughn. That was just too perfect of a scenario for some people, but go ahead and enjoy. Yea, he deserved it and that trumps team loyalty and even results in TA getting twice the penalty that the instigator received, even though he brushed back an umpire.

As far as minority vs minority, some here may recall how a lot of people hated Ali (referencing  "down goes Anderson" by Cosell even though it was Joe Frazier...) and wanted him to get beaten, even when he fought other African Americans like Frazier. There was just something about him they didn't like, and sure, OK, it had nothing to do with race. Give me a break. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by tray