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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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Don't see many "open tryouts" beyond the catcher, second base and right field holes they had since the prior decade (save for McCann's time here).

Sounds like a continuation plan of failure for bringing up players not ready and not developed by Chris Getz heading into this season (Colas, Gonzales, Sosa).

Even if Jerry is willing to spend, which is doubtful with declining ticket sales for a third consecutive season, there aren't any good free agents willing to come here. As always, it will be relievers and old players signing their last contract with no other options (Dunn, La Roche, Keuchel, Grandal, Parrot, Lynn).

Open Tryouts - 40 Man Roster Players under 2024 White Sox contract / control (ML Minimum - Arb 3)

(Player & 2023 fWAR through 9/14)

Position Players - 17 Under Control for 2024

  • Catchers: Carlos Perez -0.1 &  Korey Lee -0.3
  • First Base: Andrew Vaughn 0.4
  • Second Base:  Jose Rodriguez 0.0 vs. Lenyn Sosa -0.6
  • Third Base: Yoan Moncada 0.7
  • Shortstop: Tim Anderson -0.6
  • Left Field: Andrew Benintendi 0.2
  • Centerfield: Luis Robert 4.8
  • Rightfield: Oscar Colas -1.3 vs. Gavin Sheets -0.9
  • Designated Hitter: Eloy Jimenez 0.3
  • Infield Reserve: Zach Remillard 0.1
  • Outfield Reserve:  Adam Haseley -0.2 vs. Trayce Thompson -0.3 vs. Jackson "Clint" Frasier -0.4
  • Reserve: Loser of one of the above "battles"
  • Minor League Players: Bryan Ramos (AA 22 Years Old)

Pitchers - 20 Under Control for 2024

Starters (6 - Threshold = 1 or more 2023 starts): Cease 3.0; Scholtens 0.4; Banks 0.0; Toussaint 0.0; Lambert -0.5; Kopech -0.9

Relievers (11): Santos 1.6; Bummer 0.7; Ramsey 0.3; Peralta 0.1; Patino 0.1; Padilla 0.0; Garcia 0.0; Navarro 0.0; Hendriks -0.1; Crochet -0.1; Cronin -0.2

Minor League Players (3 - Zero White Sox 2023 Appearances): Foster (29 - TJS); Martin (27 - AAA); Ramirez (29 - AAA).

Note - Unrestricted (Chicago / Illinois Lockdowns) attendance in 2021 (late June - Year End) was higher / game than unrestricted 2022 season. 2023 is a decline from 2022, 2024 will likely be a decline from 2023 with the extinguishing of any hope after the Chris Getz / Pedro Grifol 2024 debacle. 

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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kitekrazy Grand Master

kitekrazy

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If you want to read extreme fantasy bullshit, see Merkin on mlb.com.   I guess they are forced to write like that.

I believe guys who have to put their work in print can't be as honest as those on the radio. 

I never believe in using a player's career in determining how they will be as coaches or execs.  I think it's a damning thing for great players to be head coaches.  It destroys their past among fans.  Guys like Big Hurt should avoid this type of career.   

Sox fans are into the former player syndrome.  Do you think someone like AJ would make a difference. I think not.  He's too honest and hotheaded.  Give him a A team first and then see how it goes.

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The Mighty Mite Grand Master

The Mighty Mite

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33 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

If you want to read extreme fantasy bullshit, see Merkin on mlb.com.   I guess they are forced to write like that.

I believe guys who have to put their work in print can't be as honest as those on the radio. 

I never believe in using a player's career in determining how they will be as coaches or execs.  I think it's a damning thing for great players to be head coaches.  It destroys their past among fans.  Guys like Big Hurt should avoid this type of career.   

Sox fans are into the former player syndrome.  Do you think someone like AJ would make a difference. I think not.  He's too honest and hotheaded.  Give him a A team first and then see how it goes.

What AJ has going for him is that he was a catcher which is like a manager on the field. I always thought that Fisk and AJ would have been good managers. Honest, yes, honest to a fault, maybe but I’d rather have honesty than the s%*# coming out of Grifol’s mouth.

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South Side Fireworks Man Grand Master

South Side Fireworks Man

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24 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

What AJ has going for him is that he was a catcher which is like a manager on the field. I always thought that Fisk and AJ would have been good managers. Honest, yes, honest to a fault, maybe but I’d rather have honesty than the s%*# coming out of Grifol’s mouth.

I think AJ's future is in the broadcasting booth.  I'd love to have him be the White Sox TV color man.  But the Sox would have to have a new owner that wouldn't fire him for being honest.

 

 

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kitekrazy Grand Master

kitekrazy

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8 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

What AJ has going for him is that he was a catcher which is like a manager on the field. I always thought that Fisk and AJ would have been good managers. Honest, yes, honest to a fault, maybe but I’d rather have honesty than the s%*# coming out of Grifol’s mouth.

Which no owner likes.

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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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14 hours ago, Texsox said:

@South Side Hit Menyet how often do we read stop playing that over the hill vet and bring up the AAA kid? 

I'd rather see big energy or the legend instead of rushing guys up

I agree, players should only be here who are ready and able to succeed at this level. People have been rushed because the Sox FO did not acquire starters once again in RF, 2B and C, and had no depth this entire "multi-championship window".

The point of my post is unless they bring in a bunch of new players or release / trade a bunch of existing players, there are not going to be many, if few or any Spring Training "battles", because there is simply limited talent in the organization heading into 2024. The player position roster is weaker than in any of the three tanking seasons. We will see if they sign a few starters to avoid that fate in the rotation.

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GreenSox Grand Master

GreenSox

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Getz is going to have to channel his inner Roland Hemond to get this fixed.  That 1970 team had few good players, a terrible farm (a White Sox Standard) but he was somehow able to coax  a starting pitcher and a starting position player from the Angels in return for a great defensive CF who couldn't hit plus a really bad infielder (Syd O'Brien).  A couple more trades of modest talent struck gold (or at least silver)  And then of course, Chuck Tanner said "hey, we should start Wilbur Wood."

I don't think a rebuild like we did in 2016 has a chance in hell of succeeding.   He's got to make some moves.

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greg775 Grand Master

greg775

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Posted (edited)

You know what is probably ultimately most galling? I probably should make this its own thread. The Twins are 7 or 8 over .500 and have the division in the bag. Since 2005, the division has remained crap and the Sox can't even consistently field a team the last 18 years to regularly win division titles. The Sox out of all the teams in this worthless division should have dominated it the last 18 years.

That's why I was against the stupid tank job and rebuild job that failed. Just do it the ol fashioned way, get some free agents to go with your Sale, Buehrle types and Frank Thomas types and Abreu types and fricking hang around .500 and win the damn division. Once you get in the playoffs even as a .500ish Central Division champ, you always have the chance to catch fire like the 05 postseason and win it all.

Sox should be dominating that division and instead are division patsies.

It's really sickening when you think about it. Minnie has a blah team this year, 7 over .500 or so and yet they run away with the division. It should be the Sox doing that folks. Disgraceful. And the team next year on paper will be worse than this year's almost certainly.

Ugh. It's so disappointing. Kenny and Hahn and Jerry should be so proud of their work.

Edited by greg775
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Buehrle>Wood Grand Master

Buehrle>Wood

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On 9/16/2023 at 1:08 PM, South Side Fireworks Man said:

I think AJ's future is in the broadcasting booth.  I'd love to have him be the White Sox TV color man.  But the Sox would have to have a new owner that wouldn't fire him for being honest.

 

 

That's the one area you don't have to worry about with the Sox. Stone, Ozzie, Gordon, Podz, Our Chuck, Frank (some more than others) have all been openly critical. Far more than any other team's broadcast team's. They aren't the Orioles.

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MEANS Grand Master

MEANS

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53 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You know what is probably ultimately most galling? I probably should make this its own thread. The Twins are 7 or 8 over .500 and have the division in the bag. Since 2005, the division has remained crap and the Sox can't even consistently field a team the last 18 years to regularly win division titles. The Sox out of all the teams in this worthless division should have dominated it the last 18 years.

That's why I was against the stupid tank job and rebuild job that failed. Just do it the ol fashioned way, get some free agents to go with your Sale, Buehrle types and Frank Thomas types and Abreu types and fricking hang around .500 and win the damn division. Once you get in the playoffs even as a .500ish Central Division champ, you always have the chance to catch fire like the 05 postseason and win it all.

Sox should be dominating that division and instead are division patsies.

It's really sickening when you think about it. Minnie has a blah team this year, 7 over .500 or so and yet they run away with the division. It should be the Sox doing that folks. Disgraceful. And the team next year on paper will be worse than this year's almost certainly.

Ugh. It's so disappointing. Kenny and Hahn and Jerry should be so proud of their work.

How many AL pennants have the Twins won? 

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greg775 Grand Master

greg775

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, MEANS said:

How many AL pennants have the Twins won? 

I said in my post, win the lousy division then see if you can catch fire like we did doing it the non-tank way in 2005. No excuses to not win the division at least 9 of the 18 years since 05. Then in those nine years, you catch fire in one or two like Oz did and we win it all. This division reeks and Sox should be ashamed at the ineptitude as the largest city in the division and best market. Ultimately it falls on Jerry, Kenny, Hahn. Tank is a four-letter word in Sox history.

Also if they were gonna let KW win the war over Ozzie they could have at least gotten some respected manager to take over for Ozzeroo. Hiring Robin after Oz was ridiculous. Renteria also was a bad hire even though he's OK in my book. And of course Tony was an unmitigated disaster even though I liked the move when it was made and Pedro is worst of all. Trainwreck organization.

Edited by greg775
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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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The White Sox have the least number of regular season titles (11) across the "original" eight American League franchises.

If Houston wins the American League West, they will tie the White Sox with six American League Division Titles, despite the fact the White Sox had a 44 year head start.

American League Pennants Won (1901-1968)

  1. 29 New York Yankees (1903)
  2. 9 Philadelphia / Kansas City / Oakland Athletics (1901)
  3. 8 Boston Red Sox (1901)
  4. 8 Detroit Tigers (1901)
  5. 5 Chicago White Sox (1901)
  6. 4 Washington Senators I / Minnesota Twins (1901)
  7. 3 Cleveland Guardians (1901)
  8. 2 Milwaukee Brewers / Saint Louis Browns / Baltimore Orioles (1901)
  9. 0 Washington Senators II (1961)
  10. 0 Los Angeles Angels (1961)
  11. 0 Baltimore Orioles (1901-1902)

American League Division Titles (1969-2022)

  1. 20 New York Yankees
  2. 17 Oakland Athletics
  3. 12 Minnesota Twins
  4. 11 Cleveland Guardians
  5. 10 Boston Red Sox
  6. 9 Los Angeles Angels
  7. 9 Baltimore Orioles
  8. 7 Kansas City Royals
  9. 7 Washington Senators II / Texas Rangers
  10. 7 Detroit Tigers
  11. 6 Toronto Blue Jays (1977)
  12. 6 Chicago White Sox
  13. 5 Houston (2013)
  14. 4 Tampa Bay Rays (1998)
  15. 3 Seattle Mariners (1977)
  16. 1 Seattle Pilots / Milwaukee Brewers (1969-2012)

Total Regular Season Titles (Pennants through 1968 and Divisions 1969 - 2022)

  1. 49 New York Yankees (1903)
  2. 26 Philadelphia / Kansas City / Oakland Athletics (1901)
  3. 18 Boston Red Sox (1901)
  4. 16 Washington Senators / Minnesota Twins (1901)
  5. 15 Detroit Tigers (1901)
  6. 14 Cleveland Guardians (1901)
  7. 11 Milwaukee Brewers / Saint Louis Browns / Baltimore Orioles (1901)
  8. 11 Chicago White Sox (1901)
  9. 9 Los Angeles Angels (1961)
  10. 7 Kansas City Royals (1969)
  11. 7 Washington Senators II / Texas Rangers (1961)
  12. 6 Toronto Blue Jays (1977)
  13. 5 Houston Astros (2013)
  14. 4 Tampa Bay Rays (1998)
  15. 3 Seattle Mariners (1977)
  16. 1 Seattle Pilots / Milwaukee Brewers (1969-2012)
  17. 0 Baltimore Orioles (1901-1902)

Note - Records do not include Houston or Milwaukee's NL Pennants or Divisions.

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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On 9/16/2023 at 12:42 PM, The Mighty Mite said:

What AJ has going for him is that he was a catcher which is like a manager on the field. I always thought that Fisk and AJ would have been good managers. Honest, yes, honest to a fault, maybe but I’d rather have honesty than the s%*# coming out of Grifol’s mouth.

It would be great for a manager to just tell everyone "this guy just isn't a MLB level player. We should cut him but we just don't have anyone else." Or "I cringe anytime I have to go to the bullpen. Has there ever been a worse collection of arms?" How about a spring training press conference "We're not going to win 70 games this year. This franchise is a joke."

It's exactly what we need to fire up the players and revitalize the fan base. 

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FloydBannister1983 Veteran

FloydBannister1983

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20 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Getz is going to have to channel his inner Roland Hemond to get this fixed.  That 1970 team had few good players, a terrible farm (a White Sox Standard) but he was somehow able to coax  a starting pitcher and a starting position player from the Angels in return for a great defensive CF who couldn't hit plus a really bad infielder (Syd O'Brien).  A couple more trades of modest talent struck gold (or at least silver)  And then of course, Chuck Tanner said "hey, we should start Wilbur Wood."

I don't think a rebuild like we did in 2016 has a chance in hell of succeeding.   He's got to make some moves.

Getz has no inner Roland Hemond.

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