Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 22 minutes ago, Pal said: Giolito and Flaherty This would be really good imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: There’s no desire from the fanbase. Just connecting dots. The Garfeins, McGruffs and others want to spend even more net money to replace Eloy with Justin Turner, Elvis with Merrifield. Clamored for and pimped La Russia’s arrival. Kelly, Lynn, Eaton, Keuchel we’re great team guys as well. Far higher salaries, far less net production, but oh does it improve “culture”, or so they claim. Funny how the same great culture all looks the same in a police lineup, all are way over the hill and should already be out of baseball, all overpaid, yet highly praised year after year after year by the same Jerry paid media schmucks. Same at the Executive level. Kenny with his WS and legitimate rosters was garbage. Hahn and Getz were great hires with their hands tied. Hahn had great ideas and was foiled for 12 years. Getz is the only guy who does it the right way, the Jerry way. White Sox baseball. Some things will never change… Edited October 19, 2023 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 15 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: There’s no desire from the fanbase. Just connecting dots. There are definitely some people who like/want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: The Garfeins, McGruffs and others want to spend even more net money to replace Eloy with Justin Turner, Elvis with Merrifield. Clamored for and pimped La Russia’s arrival. Kelly, Lynn, Eaton, Keuchel we’re great team guys as well. Far higher salaries, far less net production, but oh does it improve “culture”, or so they claim. Funny how the same great culture all looks the same in a police lineup, all are way over the hill and should already be out of baseball, all overpaid, yet highly praised year after year after year by the same Jerry paid media schmucks. I had to stop listening to the Soxtalk podcast. They recognize the same problems we do but their solutions are almost always meatball level. Justin Turner is 39 next year and is due to fall off a cliff any second. In fact, he would almost CERTAINLY crater once signed by the Sox because that's what happens to this team. Even if he's good there's no way you can trust him for more than a year, and then you're right back where you were. It'd be smarter to keep Eloy for one more season and see what he can do - Turner posted 2.1 bWAR last year so it's not like you need some amazing performance from Eloy to get to the same level, and Eloy has potential upside that Turner just doesn't at this point of his career. I also laugh about replacing Elvis with Merrifield. They're almost the same player with hitting, but Merrifield plays left field instead of shortstop. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, almagest said: I had to stop listening to the Soxtalk podcast. They recognize the same problems we do but their solutions are almost always meatball level. Justin Turner is 39 next year and is due to fall off a cliff any second. In fact, he would almost CERTAINLY crater once signed by the Sox because that's what happens to this team. Even if he's good there's no way you can trust him for more than a year, and then you're right back where you were. It'd be smarter to keep Eloy for one more season and see what he can do - Turner posted 2.1 bWAR last year so it's not like you need some amazing performance from Eloy to get to the same level, and Eloy has potential upside that Turner just doesn't at this point of his career. I also laugh about replacing Elvis with Merrifield. They're almost the same player with hitting, but Merrifield plays left field instead of shortstop. Chuck Garfein may as well have been captain of the USS Hanser Alberto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 10/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, wegner said: "Is there a 2 for 1 discount? Asking for a friend" These Chris Getz memes will continue to be hilarious. He just has a face you have to laugh at. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Quin said: Chuck Garfein may as well have been captain of the USS Hanser Alberto I do not get these obsessions with utility infielders/outfielders. They're almost all directly interchangeable and are the literal last component you worry about when building your position player roster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, almagest said: I do not get these obsessions with utility infielders/outfielders. They're almost all directly interchangeable and are the literal last component you worry about when building your position player roster. 1. The White Sox cannot afford guys who have the record of being quality starters at the positions they need to fill. 2. They still need people capable of filling these roles, so they default to utility infielders because they are affordable. 3. They do such a terrible job at developing their own players that they have zero depth. This leaves them with many more openings that need filled in the offseason and also requires them to find additional players during the season because they have no internal options to replace the guys who do get hurt. Utility infielders are the only ones available on waivers or as free agents, without a big cost in trades. 4. They do such a terrible job at developing their own players that they come up and are some of the worst baseballers you have ever seen. When you replace those guys with someone who is "tolerable and putting the ball in play", they look like revelations. (See: 2022 Danny Mendick). 5. Every so often, you roll the dice on a seemingly washed up veteran, and you get an incredible performance that could never be predicted, but it happens. (See: 2022 Elvis Andrus). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Just to see how a different scenario could go: The White Sox go to Flaherty, Maeda, Severino with offers in the $8-10 million dollar range, not understanding that teams are going to have to pay a premium to sign these mid level pitchers this year because there are few options and tons of cash available (they stay away from Stroman and Giolito for personal reasons). There is a run on these guys signing $12 million+ offers with other teams, leaving us complaining about how most of them are gone (we have seen this before, in both 2020 and 2021 offseasons). The White Sox are left with no choice but to sign guys to become depth, and they become their first actual signings - guys who otherwise aren't wanted. Carlos Carrasco and Jake Odorizzi thus become their first signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: They do such a terrible job at developing their own players that they have zero depth. Would say selecting and developing, but this is the core of the matter. Until they fix this, everything else is irrelevant. The era of Kenny flipping his failed garbage prospects into quality players (which he could identify but Hahn could not) with mostly Good Ole Boy non-analytical FOs are over. The Sox are one of the few teams left in baseball with a Fred Flintstone Era FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, Balta1701 said: 1. The White Sox cannot afford guys who have the record of being quality starters at the positions they need to fill. 2. They still need people capable of filling these roles, so they default to utility infielders because they are affordable. 3. They do such a terrible job at developing their own players that they have zero depth. This leaves them with many more openings that need filled in the offseason and also requires them to find additional players during the season because they have no internal options to replace the guys who do get hurt. Utility infielders are the only ones available on waivers or as free agents, without a big cost in trades. 4. They do such a terrible job at developing their own players that they come up and are some of the worst baseballers you have ever seen. When you replace those guys with someone who is "tolerable and putting the ball in play", they look like revelations. (See: 2022 Danny Mendick). 5. Every so often, you roll the dice on a seemingly washed up veteran, and you get an incredible performance that could never be predicted, but it happens. (See: 2022 Elvis Andrus). I take issue with point one. Every MLB team can afford guys who have the record of being quality starters at a position they need to fill. They just choose not to. I will go so far as to say 30 teams can afford Shohei Ohtani and Juan Soto's next contract. Again, they just choose not to. Edited October 20, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 I’d like to hear something from Getz which highlights the high-level plan for this off-season, because I’m still expecting a big payroll reduction. Historically, Jerry has always over-indexed to prior year attendance. A big cut would the already slim of competing next year damn near impossible IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’d like to hear something from Getz which highlights the high-level plan for this off-season, because I’m still expecting a big payroll reduction. Historically, Jerry has always over-indexed to prior year attendance. A big cut would the already slim of competing next year damn near impossible IMO. I’d say that it doesn’t really matter, honestly. The setup is precisely the same in both cases. You would need a massive improvement from guys who are currently here, for most of them beyond what they have done recently or ever, and you need to team that with everyone you bring in outperforming their contract, no real busts allowed. Finally, you need no one to run away with the Central, if there’s a 95 win Twins team and 2 87 win teams in Cleveland and Detroit, even serious improvements don’t make this team competitive. This is the case whether they spend $170 million or $140 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 We're going to finish behind KC one day. 2024 just might be the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Are people here really seriously suggesting that Elvis Andrus is a better player than Whitt Merrifield? F your stats.......do you all watch baseball? Andrus was absolute garbage for April, May, June........you can't win with guys who perform for 1/4 of a season. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, 2Deep said: Are people here really seriously suggesting that Elvis Andrus is a better player than Whitt Merrifield? F your stats.......do you all watch baseball? Andrus was absolute garbage for April, May, June........you can't win with guys who perform for 1/4 of a season. It's not that Andrus is good, it's that Merrifield is just as bad, if not slightly worse. Because Baseball is an individual sport masquerading as a team sport, the eye test means very little at the highest level. Numbers tell the whole story. Edited October 20, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Feeling resigned to the fate that the org decides to trade for Salvy and sign Whit. I don't see how this squad isn't really bad for at least 3-5 years. My sense is the off-season results in a 26 man akin to this, and this is how Getz and co. will spin it. It will be a bloodbath for 5th place in the worst division in the sport. Decline TA option - Re-sign Andrus or bring in Amed Rosario as a bridge to Montgomery Trade Eloy to offset Salvy contract assuming KC doesn't pitch in for it for lower level pitching prospects or reclamation projects - Salvy splits time between C/DH/1B and Sox brass lauds how he is mentoring Lee and Quero for the next 2 years, decline the club option in '26 Sign Whit to play 2B and provide more "athleticism" Trayce Thompson offered arbitration as 4th OF and backup CF option. Adds insurance if Colas continues to suck in RF, Trayce will suck equally, but provide a better glove and be a solid veteran clubhouse/leadership/platoon guy SP - Pick up Clevinger option, will claim they tried to sign at least two of Giolito, Flaherty, Montas, Severino, will be lucky to get 1 Sheets remains and DH's vs RHP C- Salvy 1B - Vaughn 2B - Whit 3B - Yoan SS - Andrus or Rosario LF - 10D CF - Robert RF - Colas DH - Sheets/Trayce Ben: Lee/Sheets/Sosa or Remillard/Trayce SPs: Cease/Clevinger/Kopech/1 of FAs above/(revolving door of suck - Touki, Schoultens, Deivi Garcia types) RP: Bummer, Crochet, Banks, Santos, Peralta, Shaw, (2 of the revolving door of suck guys) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 3 hours ago, zisk said: We're going to finish behind KC one day. 2024 just might be the year. Hahn Era Royals over Sox (5): 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013 Sox over Royals (6): 2023, 2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018 Royals finished strong (15-12 Sept/Oct). Without substantial off-season White Sox acquisitions, the Royals will likely finish ahead of the Sox next season. Any word on when Soxfest tickets go on sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Colas won’t be the RF next year. Barfield all but confirmed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfly Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 4 hours ago, 2Deep said: ........you can't win with guys who perform for 1/4 of a season. Which is wild because this organization has a recent history of bringing in players who continue to do just that. The amount of times we've heard "it's too cold" for some players at the start of the season is laughable. We don't play in a domed stadium. Yes, the first almost two months are going to be cold. Stop shooting yourself in the foot and wonder why things are going poorly with some players when that happens. The Rick Hahn era was truly amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 22 hours ago, almagest said: There are definitely some people who like/want him. I don't think there are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I take issue with point one. Every MLB team can afford guys who have the record of being quality starters at a position they need to fill. They just choose not to. I will go so far as to say 30 teams can afford Shohei Ohtani and Juan Soto's next contract. Again, they just choose not to. Laughing at the idea of Ohtani is the last straw for me. Yeah let's laugh at the idea if adding the best player in baseball to our roster. Just like we laughed at the idea of Bryce Harper and cried when Machado got his deal with SD. And laughed at the idea of Miguel Cabrera because we would have had to take Dontrelle Willis too. Meanwhile we miss out on Miggys 45 or so fWAR over 8 or so seasons because of what dumb ass short sighted reason actually? f*** the White Sox. Launch this dumb ass POS org into the moon. Edited October 20, 2023 by Southwest Sider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, fathom said: Colas won’t be the RF next year. Barfield all but confirmed that. What did he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 5 hours ago, 2Deep said: Are people here really seriously suggesting that Elvis Andrus is a better player than Whitt Merrifield? F your stats.......do you all watch baseball? Andrus was absolute garbage for April, May, June........you can't win with guys who perform for 1/4 of a season. The last 2 months of the season, Whit barely hit .200 with a .250 OBP. Other than he looks good in Royal blue, there is no reason to sign him. 34 years old., when has he helped a team win.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What did he say? They want to find a good defensive RF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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